New Ken Kutaragi interview (1) @ PC Watch

[scooby_dooby]

I bet there'll be a rush for products like FP241W in this year under $1,500
http://www.benq.com/press/News.cfm?id=1343&cat=0
and BenQ is the OEM of Dell that is the supporter of Blu-ray. It is not only about stand-alone players and game consoles.

It's about software(movie) sales, and the majority of people do not playback their movie's on computer monitors.

You're really not convincing me that the majority of HD enthusiasts will buy a PS3 to watch their HD movies. I don't even see how this is relevant.

 

[one]

It's about software(movie) sales, and the majority of people do not playback their movie's on computer monitors.

I'm just pointing out a counterexample to your "BS 1080p hype." There is another implication about this full HD (actually 1920x1200 16:10 panel) product. It can lower the price of 24-inch 1080p LCD panels.

 

[patsu]

Hmm.... the "Blu-ray vs HD-DVD" war wouldn't end so soon. We should just take a snapshot at various stages to track their progresses (in a level-headed manner). I don't see how all these discussions will help except to get the thread locked.

Right now, HD-DVD is clearly ahead with earlier launch, more matured player+titles, and growing user base. Blu-ray is caught "pants down" without dual layer, poor hardware+software, and its trump card is 5 months away. The AVS forum has other details indicating that the HD-DVD side is not all rosy too.

We should just let the situation pan out. I don't mind RobertR1 posting periodic update for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. I learned a thing or two in the process.

Personally, I'm waiting out until end of the year or early next year to have a look at the real Blu-ray offering and the latest HD-DVD solution.

What concerns me most is Sony's mismanagement of the Blu-ray launch. They are pushing so many cutting edge initiatives that it's really starting to take a toll on their execution. I hope they handle the PS3 launch well. Ken has indicated that he wants the PS3 to be a best in class type of Blu-ray player.

We shall see.

 

[RobertR1]

Scobby,

Just stop wasting your time on him. I'm even sorry I replied to him once.

 

[OtakingGX]

Hmm.... the "Blu-ray vs HD-DVD" war wouldn't end so soon. We should just take a snapshot at various stages to track their progresses (in a level-headed manner). I don't see how all these discussions will help except to get the thread locked.

Right now, HD-DVD is clearly ahead with earlier launch, more matured player+titles, and growing user base. Blu-ray is caught "pants down" without dual layer, poor hardware+software, and its trump card is 5 months away. The AVS forum has other details indicating that the HD-DVD side is not all rosy too.

We should just let the situation pan out. I don't mind RobertR1 posting periodic update for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. I learned a thing or two in the process.

Personally, I'm waiting out until end of the year or early next year to have a look at the real Blu-ray offering and the latest HD-DVD solution.

What concerns me most is Sony's mismanagement of the Blu-ray launch. They are pushing so many cutting edge initiatives that it's really starting to take a toll on their execution. I hope they handle the PS3 launch well. Ken has indicated that he wants the PS3 to be a best in class type of Blu-ray player.

We shall see.

I would vote for Bluray becoming the industry standard except that it is the format Sony created. Betamax. Mini-disc. Two words that people only know secondarily to "VHS" and "MP3."

 

[rabidrabbit]

If the BluRay camp starts releasing 2 discs, they'll simply look foolish having bragged endlessly about disc space advantage. Let's not forget that if WB released a movie using VC1 on both formats (they will soon), HD DVD still gives them 5GB to play with. 5GB is quite a lot considering the extra's are only in 480i/p and thus they could a ton of extras onto HD DVD disc where as the Blu Ray media only gets the movie. To me, extra's are a waste anyway. I rather see the space being used for better video/audio, if possilbe. If they're maxed out on video/audio quality and still have space left, sure tack on the extras but don't let content suffer for extras!

You're constantly acting as if the dual layer BD and/or MPEG-4 are something that'll never materialise.
It is scheduled (AFAIK) for late summer/autumn, I admit it's realistic to expect a delay of some month or two... but it will be there soon enough, as will more efficient codec(s).

Many HD-DVD discs are already using close to their full capacity (Audioholics says The Last Samurai uses 27,3 GB), the longer epics (LOTR EE's, King Kong for example) will either need multiple discs or a drop in quality.
The dual layer BD will have plenty if MPEG-4 or VC-1 is used.

HD-DVD currently has the advantage, I'm sure everybody agrees, and the "upcoming WB title" will still show that advantage, but it has it's options used when it comes to storage space.
It will be able to shave off some hunderds of megs by optimising the encoding, but little more.

 

[RobertR1]

You're constantly acting as if the dual layer BD and/or MPEG-4 are something that'll never materialise.
It is scheduled (AFAIK) for late summer/autumn, I admit it's realistic to expect a delay of some month or two... but it will be there soon enough, as will more efficient codec(s).

That's the problem though isn't it? "will" and "soon enough." At some point you want to see results and if you're an early adopter, those results need to be now. For the masses, this war won't be important till mid to late next year but this is prime time for early adopters!

Many HD-DVD discs are already using close to their full capacity (Audioholics says The Last Samurai uses 27,3 GB), the longer epics (LOTR EE's, King Kong for example) will either need multiple discs or a drop in quality.
The dual layer BD will have plenty if MPEG-4 or VC-1 is used.

The studios chose to run with higher bitrates. With codecs it's always easy to fill up space but VC1 can run at a very low bit rate and still be transparent to the master in terms of PQ. Here's some bit rate info and how it can vary depending on movies lenght, necessity and so on......HP4 = happy potter 4. Poto = Phantom of the Opera. ABR = average bit rate. PRB = Peak bit rate.


"Pick some titles and I'll fill in the blanks for you for Warner. Batman Begins came out to 13.54/19. Dukes will be about 12.8/19. HP4 is 13.7/19. Rumor Has It was about 16.4/25. T3 is 13.6/19. Firewall was like 13/24. POTO was like 15.2/21.

ABR/PBR

Cjplay. "

Cj is the HD DVD compressionist for Warner Brothers.

HD-DVD currently has the advantage, I'm sure everybody agrees, and the "upcoming WB title" will still show that advantage, but it has it's options used when it comes to storage space.
It will be able to shave off some hunderds of megs by optimising the encoding, but little more.

I'd like to state that I can only speak from an early adopter's viewpoint and thus only compare what is available to me. As both sides mature, I'll keep this thread updated. I have to say though, this is a much more interesting "war" than 360 vs. PS3 or ati/nvidia, atleast for me

 

[SPM]

I would vote for Bluray becoming the industry standard except that it is the format Sony created. Betamax. Mini-disc. Two words that people only know secondarily to "VHS" and "MP3."

Except this time Sony's Bluray seems to be in the same position as VHS and HD-DVD seems to be in the same position as Betamax. VHS won over Betamax because Sony didn't manage to license as many third party hardware manufacturers as JVC did.

HD-DVD manufacturers - Toshiba, Sanyo, NEC and Memory Tech

Bluray manufacturers - LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Hitachi, JVC, Yamaha, Zenith, BenQ, HP

 

[SPM]

That's the problem though isn't it? "will" and "soon enough." At some point you want to see results and if you're an early adopter, those results need to be now. For the masses, this war won't be important till mid to late next year but this is prime time for early adopters!

That is the point though - there is time before HD movies become a prime time market commodity, and firmware is upgradable. In the mean while the bulk of the early adopters will be Bluray PS3 owners.

 

[hongcho]

Anyway, it should be noted that those first 25GB MPEG-2 Blu-ray titles will never be released on HD DVD no matter how much you cried. It means you should compare the quality of those BD titles with their DVD versions, not with unrelated HD DVD titles. It works like an exclusive game.

[Sorry for the late replay, I've been away for a while...]

The thing is, a lot of reviewers are saying the BD "Fifth Element" looks worse than the upscaled Superbit DVD version of the same movie on the Toshiba HD-DVD player...

Maybe, those initial BD25 MPEG-2 titles do not NEED to be on HD-DVD...

Seriously, BD studios seriously need to rethink about their master and transfer quality.

Hong.

 

[RobertR1]

For those interested here's my review on the HD-A1:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31819

 

[Pozer]

Except this time Sony's Bluray seems to be in the same position as VHS and HD-DVD seems to be in the same position as Betamax. VHS won over Betamax because Sony didn't manage to license as many third party hardware manufacturers as JVC did.

HD-DVD manufacturers - Toshiba, Sanyo, NEC and Memory Tech

Bluray manufacturers - LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Hitachi, JVC, Yamaha, Zenith, BenQ, HP

Actually VHS won because it had the backing of the porn industry and was cheaper to produce content for. Both are more indicative of HD-DVD at this point. IMO neither camp has tangible 3rd party hardware support at this stage. Nobody wants to be the first one in the pool.

 

[SPM]

Actually VHS won because it had the backing of the porn industry and was cheaper to produce content for. Both are more indicative of HD-DVD at this point. IMO neither camp has tangible 3rd party hardware support at this stage. Nobody wants to be the first one in the pool.

That is on BR's side as well - the first porn publisher the biggest in the industry (i can't remember the name) has come out on the side of BR. More film studios also support BR rather than HD-DVD. Everything points at BR rather than HD-DVD winning at the moment.

The porn industry might have supported VHS, but only after it had already won the war on the basis of manufacturer support. The average person going into a shop, looks at all the big manufacturers backing VHS and the one manufacturer backing Betamax and makes a decision on which standard has won based on that.

 

[Titanio]

IMO neither camp has tangible 3rd party hardware support at this stage. Nobody wants to be the first one in the pool.

The only BD player out there at the moment is "third party" (from Samsung)*. There is a RCA HD-DVD player out there also, but it's just a rebranded Toshiba.

Pioneer, Panasonic & Philips will have BD players out by the fall. There are a number of drives either available, or coming shortly for PCs etc. from the likes of Panasonic, Pioneer, Benq etc.

I'm not sure what's coming down the HD-DVD pipe from other companies, but it doesn't have nearly the same support from CE companies that blu-ray has.

*I'm not sure if branding these companies "third parties" is quite correct. Sony or Toshiba do not own Blu-ray or HD-DVD - all of these companies form an association. Sony and Tosh happen to be lead partners in their associations, however.

 

[TheChefO]

That is on BR's side as well - the first porn publisher the biggest in the industry (i can't remember the name) has come out on the side of BR. More film studios also support BR rather than HD-DVD. Everything points at BR rather than HD-DVD winning at the moment.

The porn industry might have supported VHS, but only after it had already won the war on the basis of manufacturer support. The average person going into a shop, looks at all the big manufacturers backing VHS and the one manufacturer backing Betamax and makes a decision on which standard has won based on that.

agreed

Industry support, movie selection

Both of these things were in favor of vhs while the only thing going against it was superiour image quality in Betamax.

One could easily see how things will repeat ie:

Both of these things were in favor of BR while the only thing going against it was superiour image quality in HD-DVD.

Two variables though that might have an impact:
Price
Selection

 

[Powderkeg]

Many HD-DVD discs are already using close to their full capacity (Audioholics says The Last Samurai uses 27,3 GB), the longer epics (LOTR EE's, King Kong for example) will either need multiple discs or a drop in quality.
The dual layer BD will have plenty if MPEG-4 or VC-1 is used.

I disagree.

What your link doesn't tell you is WHY a movie like The Last Samurai takes up so much space. Since they didn't tell you, I will.

Also included on The Last Samurai DVD....

Audio Commentary:Commentary by Edward Zwick
Deleted Scenes:The Beheading (Behind the Beheading) Algren and Katsumoto
Documentaries:History vs. Hollywood: The Last Samurai {History Channel Documentary)
Featurette:Tom Cruise: A Warrior's Journey Edward Zwick: Director's Video Journal {Behind-the-scenes production journal - narrated by Ed Zwick and Tom Cruise A World of Detail: Production Design with Lilly Kilvert Silk and Armor: Costume Design with Ngila Dickson Imperial Army Basic Training: From Soldier to Samurai: The Weapons
Interviews:Making an Epic: A Conversation with Edward Zwick

It's a 2 hour, 10 minute movie with another 2+ hours of crap that almost no one watches. I mean they've even got a full hour long The History Channel documentary on that disk.

They could easily put the extended edition of one of the LOTR movies on a single disk, all they would have to do is leave out the added content, or place the added content on a second disk which I doubt anyone would have a problem with.

 

[Pozer]

The only BD player out there at the moment is "third party" (from Samsung)*. There is a RCA HD-DVD player out there also, but it's just a rebranded Toshiba.

Pioneer, Panasonic & Philips will have BD players out by the fall. There are a number of drives either available, or coming shortly for PCs etc. from the likes of Panasonic, Pioneer, Benq etc.

I'm not sure what's coming down the HD-DVD pipe from other companies, but it doesn't have nearly the same support from CE companies that blu-ray has.

*I'm not sure if branding these companies "third parties" is quite correct. Sony or Toshiba do not own Blu-ray or HD-DVD - all of these companies form an association. Sony and Tosh happen to be lead partners in their associations, however.

"planned for Fall" devices always have a way of showing up in Spring or much later if ever. Im not talking about whats 'announced' or 'planned' but what i can walk into a Circuit City and buy. With that said it's about equal right now in terms of hardware support.

Also It's possible neither side could win both camps have enough support that they could coexist. Retailers might not like stocking 2 sku of movies for the next 7 years though. It could end up being similar to DVD-R DVD+R which neither was a winner or a loser so the hardware supported both . Not exactly a great analogy as one deals with writing format and one deals with reading format.