New Ken Kutaragi interview (1) @ PC Watch

[RobertR1]

1) I don't think you can.
2) 2 disc "Special Editions" are the norm with DVD's. The single disc editions have usually very little extra content. There's no reason for HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs not to go the same path. In addition, there's the possibility of getting the extra (streaming?) content from the internet connection that's buit in.

1. You're right. 25gb on Mpeg2 is not good enough. While it might be ok on some titles, the longer and heavy action packed titles will suffer. Mpeg2 is at it's end of development. If it wasn't for royalties, Sony would be using something else. Also, the 50GB is pretty much out the window if they stick with Mpeg2. At this point the format is not actually superior, just more bloated.

2. If the BluRay camp starts releasing 2 discs, they'll simply look foolish having bragged endlessly about disc space advantage. Let's not forget that if WB released a movie using VC1 on both formats (they will soon), HD DVD still gives them 5GB to play with. 5GB is quite a lot considering the extra's are only in 480i/p and thus they could a ton of extras onto HD DVD disc where as the Blu Ray media only gets the movie. To me, extra's are a waste anyway. I rather see the space being used for better video/audio, if possilbe. If they're maxed out on video/audio quality and still have space left, sure tack on the extras but don't let content suffer for extras!

Sony and the BD camp will start releasing BD demo's using Mpeg2 at maximum bit rates to show what it can do if all the stars line up right. Let's hope that we as consumers actually smarten up and stop buying into the BS. I simply refuse to watch HD DVD or Blu Ray demo discs or even discuss them. It's the equivalent of buying an Ati or Nvidia card based off their tech demos and ignoring real world performance.

 

[TheChefO]

A much bigger selling point would be a greater variety of players to choose from, and a better selection of movies.
As it is, neither of these players really sell to the masses.
Isn't it funny.

Agreed but at this point both parties are trying to get their formats established. With the BOM being quite high on both formats, they have no choice initially but to sell at high price points. This limits their potential sales to "videophiles/av guys". This market is very picky and very aware of image quality differences (check avs forums). Why in their right mind would they have gone through with mass-producing movies which have questionable quality this early in the game is beyond me.

This is waaaaay off topic though and honestly I'm surprised it's lasted this long :smile:

 

[RobertR1]

This is waaaaay off topic though and honestly I'm surprised it's lasted this long :smile:

True but is it quite informative with a lot of good info presented. It's somewhat alarming how well some of the marketing had worked and how people were unaware of present day situation vs. promises made.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

True but is it quite informative with a lot of good info presented. It's somewhat alarming how well some of the marketing had worked and how people were unaware of present day situation vs. promises made.

I would agree. I had thought that BR had it 'all sewn up' 6 months ago, when it was hands down the superior format and the only reason MS and others weren't supporting it was because they wanted to stick it to Sony.

Although I found the actual original purpose of the thread more interesting... that KK thinks the PS3 will become so widely adopted as a platform for things other than gaming, that they are going to have a market to sell PS3s with more ram, etc...

 

[patsu]

I visited the AVS forum briefly to educate myself better. HD DVD is in better shape (better quality movies and player). 1 week after launch, the Blu-ray camp suffers from:

* Dual layer Blu-ray not expected until after Christmas according to forum posts
In the mean time, studios can use VC-1, AVC or MPEG 2 to encode movies depending on content and business case. Some industry folks mentioned that 22 Mbps MPEG 2 is sufficient to produce a good quality HD movie.

* Need better players since the Samsung one has some issues affecting PQ.

* Embarrassments and confusion due to the above problems.

I'll wait and see what happens when PS3 is released.

 

[SPM]

Although I found the actual original purpose of the thread more interesting... that KK thinks the PS3 will become so widely adopted as a platform for things other than gaming, that they are going to have a market to sell PS3s with more ram, etc...

I would certainly buy a PS3 with a ram expansion slot if it was on sale (just in case) but I can't speak for other people. However, I think it is a reasonably safe bet that if they are selling a cheap BR player with a PS3 badge on it for $600 and everyone else is selling one for $1000, then most people who want a HD movie player will buy it.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I would certainly buy a PS3 with a ram expansion slot if it was on sale (just in case) but I can't speak for other people. However, I think it is a reasonably safe bet that if they are selling a cheap BR player with a PS3 badge on it for $600 and everyone else is selling one for $1000, then most people who want a HD movie player will buy it.

a) HD-DVD is on the market currently for $500, and may have cheaper models available by these holidays. People who want HD playback can buy one of these standalones for less than the price of PS3.

b) Many people who want an HD movie player will be early adopters who may not want a console as their DVD player, they'll opt for a standalone.

c) The 360 w/ HD-DVD drive will be available for roughly $500 USD, so people also have that option.

Given all these options I think it's ridiculous to think that 'most' people who want HD-Movie playback will bu the PS3. I think 'most' will buy a HD-DVD standalone, with some buying a PS3 or Bluray standalone, and a relative few buying the HD-DVD add-on drive for 360.

 

[one]

a) HD-DVD is on the market currently for $500, and may have cheaper models available by these holidays. People who want HD playback can buy one of these standalones for less than the price of PS3.

b) Many people who want an HD movie player will be early adopters who may not want a console as their DVD player, they'll opt for a standalone.

c) The 360 w/ HD-DVD drive will be available for roughly $500 USD, so people also have that option.

Given all these options I think it's ridiculous to think that 'most' people who want HD-Movie playback will bu the PS3. I think 'most' will buy a HD-DVD standalone, with some buying a PS3 or Bluray standalone, and a relative few buying the HD-DVD add-on drive for 360.

As I wrote above, what matters actually is what titles will be released on each platform. Among those who buy BD or HD DVD players, I don't think the majority is those who just want to sip whatever HD. You buy HD players when they have movies you want to watch/own. Right now you hear what the earliest adopters who purchased them just to review them want to say, but it doesn't reflect the demand in reality. If you want to play a Mario game you don't buy a non-Nintendo console even though another console is superior in some points and has a platformer.

b) and c) contradicts each other even without the point above. In terms of build and features, no other BD player has Cell/RSX/HDMI 1.3/SACD playback/HDD, also the fact that PS3 is not cheap works in a good way for those who don't want a cheap console as a player.

 

[scooby_dooby]

As I wrote above, what matters actually is what titles will be released on each platform. Among those who buy BD or HD DVD players, I don't think the majority is those who just want to sip whatever HD. You buy HD players when they have movies you want to watch/own. Right now you hear what the earliest adopters who purchased them just to review them want to say, but it doesn't reflect the demand in reality. If you want to play a Mario game you don't buy a non-Nintendo console even though another console is superior in some points and has a platformer.

b) and c) contradicts each other even without the point above. In terms of build and features, no other BD player has Cell/RSX/HDMI 1.3/SACD playback/HDD, also the fact that PS3 is not cheap works in a good way for those who don't want a cheap console as a player.

What does any of that have to do with the statement that 'most' people who want HD movie playback will buy a PS3? That's what I'm arguing against.

B & C are representing two different options that are available to consumers. They are meant to show the options other than ps3 that are on the market, they are contradictory because the represent two different consumer types.

a) A/V enthusiast who is concerned with price - HD-DVD is available for $500 or less
b) A/V enthusiast where price is no concern - will usually prefer a standalone and buy a BR or HD-DVD standalone
c) Video game/AV enthusiast - can purchase the 360's add-on drive or the PS3.

Given those 3 groups of people, I don't see how PS3 will be the main device for AV enthusiasts looking for HD movie playback.

You are right that content is king, but that's an entirely different debate. Last I heard both formats have roughly the same number of titles coming for year 1, so I don't see that being a large distinguishing factor. Although, salesmen may be pushing BR very hard on that angle. Regardless, that would increase the appeal of BR as a whole, driving standalone sales as much, or more than PS3, so it doesn't bolster the PS3's status as the playback device of choice.

 

[OtakingGX]

As I wrote above, what matters actually is what titles will be released on each platform. Among those who buy BD or HD DVD players, I don't think the majority is those who just want to sip whatever HD. You buy HD players when they have movies you want to watch/own. Right now you hear what the earliest adopters who purchased them just to review them want to say, but it doesn't reflect the demand in reality. If you want to play a Mario game you don't buy a non-Nintendo console even though another console is superior in some points and has a platformer.

b) and c) contradicts each other even without the point above. In terms of build and features, no other BD player has Cell/RSX/HDMI 1.3/SACD playback/HDD, also the fact that PS3 is not cheap works in a good way for those who don't want a cheap console as a player.

I read scooby's post, then I read your reply. Then I read scooby's post again. I think you quoted the wrong person, because b) and c) of his post do not contradict each other. There will be people who want a standalone high definition DVD player. These are movie afficianados who really don't care about video games. It's not that they don't want a cheap console to play movies, it's that they don't want a console at all. For those who do have to get a console/DVD player combo there's an alternative to the PS3. That's what point c) is talking about.

 

[one]

a) A/V enthusiast who is concerned with price - HD-DVD is available for $500 or less

Money saving enthusiast? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. Enthusiasts hate cheap players, including the $499 Toshiba HD DVD player that lacks 1080p output which is found in the $799 version.

You are right that content is king, but that's an entirely different debate. Last I heard both formats have roughly the same number of titles coming for year 1, so I don't see that being a large distinguishing factor. Although, salesmen may be pushing BR very hard on that angle. Regardless, that would increase the appeal of BR as a whole, driving standalone sales as much, or more than PS3, so it doesn't bolster the PS3's status as the playback device of choice.

The number of titles is not very important. Specific titles are. HD DVD has Universal, while BD has Sony, Disney, Lionsgate and Fox. I have no idea why you are confident that standalone player sales will be strong.

It's not that they don't want a cheap console to play movies, it's that they don't want a console at all.

What do you think separates a console from an A/V equipment? What about the demand as media center? The HD DVD player from Toshiba is essentially a crippled PC with a Broadcom DSP and 4 SHARC DSPs. Cell/RSX are much more powerful and flexible than them.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1980865,00.asp
It all depends on the marketing of non-gaming PS3 functions. But the fact that the PS3 price is set out of the traditional console range is already the biggest branding action to say "it's not a (traditional) game console".

 

[RobertR1]

Money saving enthusiast? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. Enthusiasts hate cheap players, including the $499 Toshiba HD DVD player that lacks 1080p output which is found in the $799 version.

There is completely false. The $799 verison offers a back lit remote, double chassis construction, a rs232 port and motorized front door over the $499 version. Everything else about 1080p you just made up. The hardware and software is exactly the same on both model. Nothing special locked/unlocked.

The number of titles is not very important. Specific titles are. HD DVD has Universal, while BD has Sony, Disney, Lionsgate and Fox. I have no idea why you are confident that standalone player sales will be strong.

Standalone players sell. Simple as that. Let's wait to see actual titles from Disney and Fox, yeah? So far, WB and Universal are going a great job of releasing HD DVD titles. Sony is the majority of releases on BR with Lions doing a couple.

 

[fearsomepirate]

The $799 verison offers a back lit remote, double chassis construction, a rs232 port and motorized front door over the $499 version.

Does it also come with a sweet spoiler and alloy wheels?

 

[Sis]

What do you think separates a console from an A/V equipment?

An IR port for remote control?

 

[OtakingGX]

Money saving enthusiast? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. Enthusiasts hate cheap players, including the $499 Toshiba HD DVD player that lacks 1080p output which is found in the $799 version.
The number of titles is not very important. Specific titles are. HD DVD has Universal, while BD has Sony, Disney, Lionsgate and Fox. I have no idea why you are confident that standalone player sales will be strong.
What do you think separates a console from an A/V equipment? What about the demand as media center? The HD DVD player from Toshiba is essentially a crippled PC with a Broadcom DSP and 4 SHARC DSPs. Cell/RSX are much more powerful and flexible than them.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1980865,00.asp
It all depends on the marketing of non-gaming PS3 functions. But the fact that the PS3 price is set out of the traditional console range is already the biggest branding action to say "it's not a (traditional) game console".

There are money saving enthusiasts. Enthusiast does not mean "one who has no regard for the cost of goods."

What separates a piece of A/V equipment from a console is the ability to play games on it. Some people don't want that, whether it be the stigma or just disliking video games.

Not everyone delves into the specs of their DVD player to ferret out which one they should buy. Sure, they'll look at things like resolutions it supports and audio capabilities, but ultimately they'll watch the thing hooked up to a TV at the store and base their decision on that.

 

[RobertR1]

Does it also come with a sweet spoiler and alloy wheels?

Spinners y0!!!!

 

[scooby_dooby]

Money saving enthusiast? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

I guess I'm a walking oxymoron then. There are a broad range of 'enthusiasts'

The number of titles is not very important. Specific titles are. HD DVD has Universal, while BD has Sony, Disney, Lionsgate and Fox. I have no idea why you are confident that standalone player sales will be strong.

I never said standalone sales will outnumber PS3 sales. I said that most people that would buy an HD movieplayer will probably not buy a PS3, but one of the many other options.

I think most people in the market for an HD movie player this year will opt for a standalone BR or HD-DVD player(because they're early adopters), followed by ps3, followed by the 360 hd-dvd add-on.

 

[one]

There is completely false. The $799 verison offers a back lit remote, double chassis construction, a rs232 port and motorized front door over the $499 version. Everything else about 1080p you just made up. The hardware and software is exactly the same on both model. Nothing special locked/unlocked.

Alright, so both $499 version (HD-A1) and $799 version (HD-XA1) lack 1080p output, and it doesn't change my view, not to mention $599 PS3 has 1080p output.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Alright, so both $499 version (HD-A1) and $799 version (HD-XA1) lack 1080p output, and it doesn't change my view, not to mention $599 PS3 has 1080p output.

So what relevance does 1080p have to the discussion? Are the <1% of true 1080p owners going to signifigantly impact the market? (Keep in mind the majority of current '1080p' install base accept a max resolution of 1080i)

I'm sure there will be some amount of people who buy into the BS 1080p hype, and for that reason refuse to purchase HD-DVD, but the majority of people interested in these players already own a TV/Projector and chance are, it doesn't accept 1080p anyways. 1080p support will not be a big factor in 2006.

Not to mention, these hardcore enthusiasts you speak of are not stupid, they release that a standalone device with dedicated hardware will be higher quality than a console, history has proven this, why should they have some blind faith that things will change. Just because sony launched it at $599? I don't think the people we're talking about are that stupid sorry.

 

[one]

So what relevance does 1080p have to the discussion? Are the <1% of true 1080p owners going to signifigantly impact the market? (Keep in mind the majority of current '1080p' install base accept a max resolution of 1080i)

I'm sure there will be some amount of people who buy into the BS 1080p hype, and for that reason refuse to purchase HD-DVD, but the majority of people interested in these players already own a TV/Projector and chance are, it doesn't accept 1080p anyways.

I bet there'll be a rush for products like FP241W in this year under $1,500
http://www.benq.com/press/News.cfm?id=1343&cat=0
and BenQ is the OEM of Dell that is the supporter of Blu-ray. It is not only about stand-alone players and game consoles.