PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

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hesido said:
And I don't buy the latest phone / TV / Car etc. etc. I don't game on my phone, so as long as it can load beyond3d and let me talk, it's fine. Unless Beyond3d begins targeting the latest Samsung Galaxy S8, I'm fine. The roads I drive...

Updating wasn't something to worry about on a console this many years into the Console's life.
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But why? If you're happy with your car and sewing machine, why are you unhappy keeping your PS4 when a PS4K is released?! Your console isn't going to get worse as a result. Your experience on PS4 isn't the slightest bit affected. It's remain the same over the next 3-4 years whether PS4K releases or not.

And to think that existence of such a product does not affect my experience on the original PS4 is at best wishful thinking. Devs will target 60fps on the PS4K, 30fps on the PS4.
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No, they'll target 30 fps on PS4 (which they're already doing), and let PS4K ramp it up to 60 fps. If PS4K doesn't exist, PS4 games will still be 30 fps and putting our pretty screenshots.

The difference here is people who want PS4 games but at 60 fps will have the option to buy a machine that'll give that experience, unlike previous console generations where they were just stuck with 30 fps (and less, as the machine got older).
 
itsmydamnation said:
so what would you go with , remember 128/128 L/S a core, 8 cores, 2 128bit avx units a core maybe 25watt TDP and about 50 odd mm2sq
you need throughput as well as robust execution.
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4 Puma+ cores with turbo at 2,2 GHz are less than 5 watts of power at 28nm. 8 cores at 14nm would be also in the reign of 5 watts. Don´t tell me there is no room to improve that. At least put 12 cores. That would make it 100% more powerful (and make easier to make CPU bound 30 fps games reach 60 fps) .
 
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So, to recap...

The leak also claims that from October every new PlayStation 4 [game] will have to include a ‘Base Mode’ that works on the original console and a ‘NEO Mode’ that takes advantage of the more powerful new version. Patches can also be released to upgrade existing games.

Exactly what developers do with that power is apparently not being mandated by Sony, and can include more stable frame rates and/or ‘higher visual fidelity’.

What Sony is enforcing though is that developer ensures the Neo and Base modes both run at the same frame rate. This is to stop developers trying to run games at 4K and reducing the frame rate in order to get more power out of the console.

There will also be no games that require the NEO to run – they’ll just run better on the new system. Sony are even forbidding extra gameplay options or unlockables that aren’t available in base mode. Although upgrades, such as eight-player local co-op instead of four, will apparently be allowed.

Since presumably the original PlayStation 4 will be getting a price cut, it will be sold alongside the NEO and both will use the same interface, online service, and PSN store.

Assuming all this is true – and it does line up with most of the other more believable rumours – it seems Sony are doing their best to ensure there’s no split in the PlayStation 4 userbase and that the NEO is seen only as an upgrade. Like having the latest model of iPhone, instead of last year’s model.

Although the October deadline for NEO mode suggests a release this year that isn’t mentioned as part of these rumours. Nor is anything relating to the PlayStation VR headset.


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/19/upgra...-claims-latest-rumours-5826467/#ixzz46Ga9JnrO
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Makes sense to me. No point getting mad for having the old PS4. Get with the times, guys!
 
Love_In_Rio said:
4 Puma+ cores with turbo at 2,2 GHz are less than 5 watts of power at 28nm. 8 cores at 14nm would be also in the reign of 5 watts. Don´t tell me there is no room to improve that. At least put 12 cores. That would make it 100% more powerful (and make easier to make CPU bound 30 fps games reach 60 fps) .
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Turbo for a console is useless what matters is BASE, a base clock at max AVX throughput is going to define your TDP.
 
London-boy said:
So, to recap...



Makes sense to me. No point getting mad for having the old PS4. Get with the times, guys!
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What Sony is enforcing though is that developer ensures the Neo and Base modes both run at the same frame rate. This is to stop developers trying to run games at 4K and reducing the frame rate in order to get more power out of the console.

The most important phrase and they are unable to get it right...even worse, they get quite the contrary meaning:

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437/

Throughout the documents, Sony repeatedly reminds developers that the frame rate of games in NEO Mode must meet or exceed the frame rate of the game on the original PS4 system.
 
It is a very badly written article. I even had to grammar-check it and changed a thing or two before quoting it on here................
 
Everyone wins!

from October every new PlayStation 4 [game] will have to include a ‘Base Mode’ ... and a ‘NEO Mode’
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Except the devs. More work for them.

Sony offers suggestions for reaching 4K/UltraHD resolutions for NEO mode game builds, but they're also giving developers a degree of freedom with how to approach this.
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They are giving guidelines in order to improve the resolution. Not doubling the framerate. So we can all stop dreaming about any standard 30fps -> 60fps improvement now.
 
If framerate is locked to PS4 Base quality, it'd be a fairly pointless device. IQ in games is getting pretty good, but framerate still has plenty of room to improve.
 
Globalisateur said:
Everyone wins!


Except the devs. More work for them.


They are giving guidelines in order to improve the resolution. Not doubling the framerate. So we can all stop dreaming about any standard 30fps -> 60fps improvement now.
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Well no. It says that it cannot be lower, just to get more eye candy.
But it can be higher. So we could get same eye candy but at 60fps. Or more eye candy for 30fps. Up to the devs.

Again, Metro write with their feet. But the sense of it all is there. If this is true!
 
Globalisateur said:
Except the devs. More work for them.
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Potentially very little. Change a few internal parameters and you're done, if the engine is so designed. And I'd hope an engine made these days is that flexible.

Edit: Well that's the theory. I suppose being realistic, parameters willbe tweaked and then testing will show all sorts of issues. eg. Bandwidth issues, or CPU issues, that'll need specific work to focus.

Personally as a dev I'd just release the NEO version with minimal effort. There's no particular point in targeting it specially as you're unlikely to net more sales. I'd definitely look to either go 60fps or, maybe, higher res. I wouldn't even faf about with specific tweaks like individual render target res. If lighting is 720p, keep it 720p and just up the backbuffer res to 4k.

The question is how trivial would it be to get a 30fps PS4 game running at 60 fps on a suitably powerful, hardware compatible device?
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Potentially very little. Change a few internal parameters and you're done, if the engine is so designed. And I'd hope an engine made these days is that flexible.

Edit: Well that's the theory. I suppose being realistic, parameters willbe tweaked and then testing will show all sorts of issues. eg. Bandwidth issues, or CPU issues, that'll need specific work to focus.

Personally as a dev I'd just release the NEO version with minimal effort. There's no particular point in targeting it specially as you're unlikely to net more sales. I'd definitely look to either go 60fps or, maybe, higher res. I wouldn't even faf about with specific tweaks like individual render target res. If lighting is 720p, keep it 720p and just up the backbuffer res to 4k.

The question is how trivial would it be to get a 30fps PS4 game running at 60 fps on a suitably powerful, hardware compatible device?
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If we could peek the Naughty Dog´s CPU scheduler there would no human way they launched an Uncharted 4 at 60fps without doubling the CPU resources. I imagine many other developers are so CPU resource limited that this upgrade would be pointless to improve frame rates. I imagine UBI soft AC Unity programmers making a laugh when reading about the 8xJaguar at 2,1 GHz, when they barely managed to move the npcs in their game with current CPUs at 21 fps.
 
Assuming this is all based on some sort of truth (I love disclaimers).

It seems to me that Sony would prefer games to run at the same framerate as the PS4 versions, but perhaps more stable and at higher res. There's only so much you can do without some heavy re-writes of the existing games, and any future release. And doubling framerates would require a lot of work on some games. A lot more than the odd higher res, or better AA here and there.

Heck, I'd be happy to just get more stable IQ and shadow res on some games, running without any dips in framerate.
 
itsmydamnation said:
also this could be in response to devs, they dont want to have a end of gen fall off again........
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Interesting point. This could be a bit of protection against a misjudged transition to next gen. You get to gauge interest in the faster system while also having something to stop-gap if customers start to bail on the 2013 devices (and crucially on buying software for them).
 
I think this rumoured Neo thing sounds like a sensible mix of faster hardware and reasonable demands of both PS4 and Neo support, and an understandable requirement for "PS4 or better" framerates.

If up to devs to shoot for higher resolutions or higher frame rates or better effects. I don't see anything to criticise there.

The specs being touted make it look like 30 -> 60 fps is going to achievable for many games, should they choose to go that route.
 
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