ps3 much more powerful than xbox 360?

[Spidermate]

Sure SONY may be able to push physics slightly beyond what Xenon will be able to do in their launch games, but do you think the non geek would even notice any differnce? What about AI, does CELL lend itself to good AI? From what we know about CELL and XPU, XPU would be better for AI. Not only that but it can run many many threads.

I was never aware that you actually got to work with these CPUs, let alone the final design shipped out to developers. It would also be violating the NDAs if you were to give any inside info on them. So tell me, how is it that you know which will be better for AI or not if you haven't tested them? Don't tell me you're guessing.

 

[Spidermate]

Sonic, Blu-ray will definitely have an affect on what can be incorporated into PS3 at a specific cost. So all things being equal ie Xenon costs the same as PS3 without a blue laser optical drive, MS can put more silicon power into their console for the same price which is what this thread is about...console B being more powerful than console A.

Oh please. You do know Sony is merging the Blu Ray format with Toshiba's HD-DVD format, don't you? The purpose for this move is to cut cost while still delivering a high capacity disc without the consumer having to choose, or did you just skip over all that to justify that statement of yours?

Let me also remind you that these consoles are not designed to immediately establish a profit.

 

[London Geezer]

We still don't know anything about the new format. But my thought is, the new format, being a new format when PS3 comes out, it will be quite expensive, whether it's been made to be cheaper than BDROM or not.

I don't agree with PC-Engine (god forbid), but really, PS3 will be one hell of a costly machine to manufacture for the first couple of years.

 

[Andy]

Has anyone asked the question whether a Hybrid Blu-ray HD-DVD format would be ready in time for PS3's launch?

 

[Tacitblue]

Yeah, selling that hardware at a loss is going to hurt Sony considering their current state, but what choice do they have, its a sizable proportion of their entire income base. At a corporate level it must feel like bipolar syndrome, dragged down by hardware sales and jacked up with software sales.

 

[Spidermate]

We still don't know anything about the new format. But my thought is, the new format, being a new format when PS3 comes out, it will be quite expensive, whether it's been made to be cheaper than BDROM or not.

I don't agree with PC-Engine (god forbid), but really, PS3 will be one hell of a costly machine to manufacture for the first couple of years.

I'm not saying it won't. But, I find this whole process no different from DVD when it first launched the market. It, too, was a pricy piece of hardware with the media assuming the samething, but Sony down-graded the format to where costs didn't affect the overall manufacturing of the console. I expect no different this time.

The set top box that will launch on market shelves will be delievered with a burner compatible to the format. I'm sure the console won't be getting this as that will certainly drive up the cost.

 

[London Geezer]

Has anyone asked the question whether a Hybrid Blu-ray HD-DVD format would be ready in time for PS3's launch?

Hehe that's a good question too... I could think only one thing: delay.
At least until there is a new format. And then PS3 will be very interesting, as it will be the only console being able to play the only HD-disc format out there.
Either that or a plain old DVD drive on PS3.

I don't think a BlueRay-only drive on PS3 will be very healthy for the platform, when the real format will be out shortly after.

 

[London Geezer]

I'm not saying it won't. But, I find this whole process no different from DVD when it first launched the market. It, too, was a pricy piece of hardware with the media assuming the samething, but Sony down-graded the format to where costs didn't affect the overall manufacturing of the console. I expect no different this time.

The set top box that will launch on market shelves will be delievered with a burner compatible to the format. I'm sure the console won't be getting this as that will certainly drive up the cost.

Of course, PS3 could just feature playback with no bells and whistles, and probably will.
Doesn't change the fact that a HD-whatever-they-call-it drive will be much more expensive than the DVD drive in the Xbox2. As stripped down as it might be, there will be a vast difference.

But PC-Engine reasoning that Xbox might end up with better processors because MS can make up for the difference in price is just his usual Pizza Hut logic.

 

[Spidermate]

Has anyone asked the question whether a Hybrid Blu-ray HD-DVD format would be ready in time for PS3's launch?

Many suspect 18 months, but they also suspected a lot of things before they found themselves wrong. Maybe the two already had this in mind before they announced it, or maybe the switch isn't as difficult as the media may think it is. Whatever the case, neither side seems to want a format war, which also drives the other question. If the format is delayed (which I doubt) alone with the console, couldn't that also mean an even greater advantage in profitable, yet superior, hardware or would some also deny that as well?

 

[Carl B]

I'm not saying it won't. But, I find this whole process no different from DVD when it first launched the market. It, too, was a pricy piece of hardware with the media assuming the samething, but Sony down-graded the format to where costs didn't affect the overall manufacturing of the console. I expect no different this time.

The set top box that will launch on market shelves will be delievered with a burner compatible to the format. I'm sure the console won't be getting this as that will certainly drive up the cost.

Of course, PS3 could just feature playback with no bells and whistles, and probably will.
Doesn't change the fact that a HD-whatever-they-call-it drive will be much more expensive than the DVD drive in the Xbox2. As stripped down as it might be, there will be a vast difference.

But PC-Engine reasoning that Xbox might end up with better processors because MS can make up for the difference in price is just his usual Pizza Hut logic.

I don't see an HD drive being all that costly to Sony in the long run; there's certainly nothing inherit to the technology making it more expensive than a normal DVD drive beyond the usual manufacturing ramp-up. So, though it might be 'expensive' to include for the first year or two, I see their costs on this particular item dropping quickly.

 

[London Geezer]

Has anyone asked the question whether a Hybrid Blu-ray HD-DVD format would be ready in time for PS3's launch?

Many suspect 18 months, but they also suspected a lot of things before they found themselves wrong. Maybe the two already had this in mind before they announced it, or maybe the switch isn't as difficult as the media may think it is. Whatever the case, neither side seems to want a format war, which also drives the other question. If the format is delayed (which I doubt) alone with the console, couldn't that also mean an even greater advantage in profitable, yet superior, hardware or would some also deny that as well?

Delaying PS3 will have the same effect on it as it did with Xbox and N64 before it.
As powerful as Sony wnat PS3 to be, having it released almost 2 years after the Xbox2 will definately hurt them a lot more than releasing closer to MS, though without a BlueLaser drive.
A PS3 that comes out 2 years after Xbox2 will be ridiculously powerful, but what's the point? That's almost half a generation late.

 

[MechanizedDeath]

How much more with a BRD drive even cost? Again, this has been hashed over at GAF, and this is the same argument that we saw with the DVD drive in the PS2. There's gonna be a new laser, a new spindle motor, and new encryption hw. Everything else (decoding, drive control and other playback functions) should be handled between CPU, GPU and IOP, no? I think there's a reason Sony stated from VERY EARLY that they'd include BRD, and it's b/c the cost is marginal. The CD drive apparently didn't sink the PS1. The DVD drive didn't sink the PS2, and I seriously doubt BRD will do any different for the PS3. I think the BRD cost argument is a red herring. PEACE.

 

[Carl B]

Has anyone asked the question whether a Hybrid Blu-ray HD-DVD format would be ready in time for PS3's launch?

Many suspect 18 months, but they also suspected a lot of things before they found themselves wrong. Maybe the two already had this in mind before they announced it, or maybe the switch isn't as difficult as the media may think it is. Whatever the case, neither side seems to want a format war, which also drives the other question. If the format is delayed (which I doubt) alone with the console, couldn't that also mean an even greater advantage in profitable, yet superior, hardware or would some also deny that as well?

I've read that 18 month estimate but in my opinion that's too long; just an analyst trying to cover all bases. I think if we hear something on format unification by the end of this month, like they were planning to announce, or by E3, then there's a good chance we'll see the nw format in PS3 with minimal delay. If they haven't announced anything by then, I guess we'll just have to interpret Sony's language at E3 - though in my mind the chances of a unified format and that format getting in PS3 will have gone down a good bit.

 

[London Geezer]

How much more with a BRD drive even cost? Again, this has been hashed over at GAF, and this is the same argument that we saw with the DVD drive in the PS2. There's gonna be a new laser, a new spindle motor, and new encryption hw. Everything else (decoding, drive control and other playback functions) should be handled between CPU, GPU and IOP, no? I think there's a reason Sony stated from VERY EARLY that they'd include BRD, and it's b/c the cost is marginal. The CD drive apparently didn't sink the PS1. The DVD drive didn't sink the PS2, and I seriously doubt BRD will do any different for the PS3. I think the BRD cost argument is a red herring. PEACE.

Yes. No one knows the costs so it's useless to discuss about that. The biggest problem now is the availability.

Before, at least BDROM was somewhat ready. Now there is NO format. Sony and Toshiba will have to unify the format, and deciding what it will be will likely take AGES, not for technical reasons, but purely for political reasons.
Then they will have to start manufacturing whatever new drive they'll think of.

 

[Spidermate]

I'm not saying it won't. But, I find this whole process no different from DVD when it first launched the market. It, too, was a pricy piece of hardware with the media assuming the samething, but Sony down-graded the format to where costs didn't affect the overall manufacturing of the console. I expect no different this time.

The set top box that will launch on market shelves will be delievered with a burner compatible to the format. I'm sure the console won't be getting this as that will certainly drive up the cost.

Of course, PS3 could just feature playback with no bells and whistles, and probably will.
Doesn't change the fact that a HD-whatever-they-call-it drive will be much more expensive than the DVD drive in the Xbox2. As stripped down as it might be, there will be a vast difference.

But PC-Engine reasoning that Xbox might end up with better processors because MS can make up for the difference in price is just his usual Pizza Hut logic.

And that surprises you how? It's a new format. I wouldn't expect anything less. But what i'm trying to tell you is DVD, at one point, was very expensive, too, but because we got a simple version of it, it helped ease the manufacturing. What PC is saying is BECAUSE the new format will be so expensive, Sony won't be able to pack as much as they want into the console - making their console equal or inferior to the 360. THAT is what I find to be the most unbalanced assumption yet.

Microsft is cutting cost for a reason, and that reason isn't to trade off one thing for the other otherwise they wouldn't be so concerned about profitting from the console.

 

[London Geezer]

And that surprises you how? It's a new format. I wouldn't expect anything less. But what i'm trying to tell you is DVD, at one point, was very expensive, too, but because we got a simple version of it, it helped ease the manufacturing. What PC is saying is BECAUSE the new format will be so expensive, Sony won't be able to pack as much as they want into the console - making their console equal or inferior to the 360. THAT is what I find to be the most unbalanced assumption yet.

Microsft is cutting cost for a reason, and that reason isn't to trade off one thing for the other otherwise they wouldn't be so concerned about profitting from the console.

Errr yeah, hence my:

But PC-Engine reasoning that Xbox might end up with better processors because MS can make up for the difference in price is just his usual Pizza Hut logic.

 

[Spidermate]

Has anyone asked the question whether a Hybrid Blu-ray HD-DVD format would be ready in time for PS3's launch?

Many suspect 18 months, but they also suspected a lot of things before they found themselves wrong. Maybe the two already had this in mind before they announced it, or maybe the switch isn't as difficult as the media may think it is. Whatever the case, neither side seems to want a format war, which also drives the other question. If the format is delayed (which I doubt) alone with the console, couldn't that also mean an even greater advantage in profitable, yet superior, hardware or would some also deny that as well?

Delaying PS3 will have the same effect on it as it did with Xbox and N64 before it.
As powerful as Sony wnat PS3 to be, having it released almost 2 years after the Xbox2 will definately hurt them a lot more than releasing closer to MS, though without a BlueLaser drive.
A PS3 that comes out 2 years after Xbox2 will be ridiculously powerful, but what's the point? That's almost half a generation late.

I completely agree with you, which is why I doubt the possibility ever emerging.

 

[Cobra101]

having it released almost 2 years after the Xbox2 will definately hurt them a lot more than releasing closer to MS

2 years?

I think 1 year TOPS.

 

[London Geezer]

having it released almost 2 years after the Xbox2 will definately hurt them a lot more than releasing closer to MS

2 years?

I think 1 year TOPS.

Yeah, it was an "IF" scenario...

 

[Geeforcer]

Look at the PS2, it is a crappy piece of hardware that had outdated technology when it was released but it still has managed to hold off competition of superior systems.

So what you're saying is you have absolutely no knowledge of embedded multimedia hardware at all and have nothing to add to any discussion about the subject.

Oh no, not the Embedded Multimedia Hardware!!!!