Xbox 360/PS3 graphics- an observation

[vanquish]

They could have a million employees, if they are all tasked on making one game in a 3 year cycle, then thats what they will make.

And Bungie's one game has sold more than Epic's 3 (there's really only 2 yet tho isn't there) so far, so maybe that's the right decision for them.

Blizzard with more employees than all of the above put together manages about 1 game every 3 years, with maybe an expansion thrown in now and again.

I'm not saying that Halo 3 is a bad game, just that due to Bungie's choice to use the Halo 2 engine, instead of starting from scratch like Epic, Infinity Ward, Insomniac etc it lacks the visual prowess its Xbox predecessors did.

 

[AlNom]

I'm not saying that Halo 3 is a bad game, just that due to Bungie's choice to use the Halo 2 engine, instead of starting from scratch like Epic, Infinity Ward, Insomniac etc it lacks the visual prowess its Xbox predecessors did.

You clearly have no understanding of the technicalities versus art direction...


...as I've already posted previously.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I'm not saying that Halo 3 is a bad game, just that due to Bungie's choice to use the Halo 2 engine, instead of starting from scratch like Epic, Infinity Ward, Insomniac etc it lacks the visual prowess its Xbox predecessors did.

This just seems an incredibly naive statement to me. There's no doubt that Halo3 isn't as flashy in some ways as Gears of War, but it is doing a dozen things that the Unreal Engine (in gears of war mode) simply isn't capable of doing in the scope of the Halo universe.

number of enemies on screen, huge battlefields, and lighting all lean in halos favor on the technical end.

 

[vanquish]

You clearly have no understanding of the technicalities versus art direction...


...as I've already posted previously.

If you're inferring that I think Halo 3 should look like Gears of War, with bigger maps etc, you're much mistaken. Having owned all 3 games I am more than familiar with the art direction, and have no problems with it.

In Halo 3 what stands out to me though, is technical issues such as the lack of any antialiasing.

Technically it pales in comparison to Resistance 2 which has similar environments and visual style, (with 60 player multiplayer) .

This is can be attributed to the fact that it runs on an engine built from the ground up for the PS3, unlike Halo 3.

 

[vanquish]

This just seems an incredibly naive statement to me. There's no doubt that Halo3 isn't as flashy in some ways as Gears of War, but it is doing a dozen things that the Unreal Engine (in gears of war mode) simply isn't capable of doing in the scope of the Halo universe.

number of enemies on screen, huge battlefields, and lighting all lean in halos favor on the technical end.

Well none of the gaming press agreed with you, COD4 took home most of the awards for best graphics (technical) in 2007, with the rest going to Bioshock (which runs on UE3 anyway).

 

[AlNom]

If you're inferring that I think Halo 3 should look like Gears of War, with bigger maps etc, you're much mistaken. Having owned all 3 games I am more than familiar with the art direction, and have no problems with it.

Negative.

In Halo 3 what stands out to me though, is technical issues such as the lack of any antialiasing.

This has nothing to do with reusing a prior engine.

Technically it pales in comparison to Resistance 2 which has similar environments and visual style, (with 60 player multiplayer) .

Apparently you have no concept of spherical harmonics or higher dynamic range.

This is can be attributed to the fact that it runs on an engine built from the ground up for the PS3, unlike Halo 3.

And you know this because you've seen the source code?

Well none of the gaming press agreed with you, COD4 took home most of the awards for best graphics (technical) in 2007, with the rest going to Bioshock (which runs on UE3 anyway).

The game press is as oblivious to technological distinctiveness as the average individual.

 

[vanquish]

This just seems an incredibly naive statement to me. There's no doubt that Halo3 isn't as flashy in some ways as Gears of War, but it is doing a dozen things that the Unreal Engine (in gears of war mode) simply isn't capable of doing in the scope of the Halo universe.

number of enemies on screen, huge battlefields, and lighting all lean in halos favor on the technical end.

And anyway UT3 is quite similar in gameplay, level size etc to Halo 3 (in multiplayer ar least), using the UE3, thus proving my point, that Epic is better at tapping the 360's power. Which by the way is a reversal from last gen on the Xbox.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Well none of the gaming press agreed with you, COD4 took home most of the awards for best graphics (technical) in 2007, with the rest going to Bioshock (which runs on UE3 anyway).

/shrug halo 3 won some awards from the press, its entirely subjective.

I personally prefer the look of gears of war but it would have to have toned down the visuals to achieve the level of gameplay offered in Halo3.

And anyway UT3 is quite similar in gameplay, level size etc to Halo 3 (in multiplayer ar least), using the UE3, thus proving my point, that Epic is better at tapping the 360's power. Which by the way is a reversal from last gen on the Xbox.

heh no.

 

[AlNom]

And anyway UT3 is quite similar in gameplay, level size etc to Halo 3 (in multiplayer ar least), using the UE3, thus proving my point, that Epic is better at tapping the 360's power. Which by the way is a reversal from last gen on the Xbox.

That's funny, Halo 3 has 4 player splitscreen.

 

[vanquish]

Negative.



This has nothing to do with reusing a prior engine.




Apparently you have no concept of spherical harmonics or higher dynamic range.



And you know this because you've seen the source code?

Well, yes it does, as to get the old engine to run satisfactorily, they had to cut some of the trimmings like AA.
Anyway what happened to the 'free' 4xAA Microsoft and ATI was touting for the Xenos?

I admit I don't know what spherical harmonics are, i understand HDR though.

No, because Insomniac has stated this in various press releases.

 

[AlNom]

Anyway what happened to the 'free' 4xAA Microsoft and ATI was touting for the Xenos?

It's called Public Relations. It's old news.

 

[vanquish]

That's funny, Halo 3 has 4 player splitscreen.

UT3 has 2 player splitscreen, and as a veteran H3 split-screen player, the graphics are cut down significantly.

Playing splitscreen coop in H3 you can see these more readily, with the vegetation draw distance etc. Gears of War splitscreen campaign does not look noticeably different from singleplayer.

 

[AlNom]

Gears of War splitscreen campaign does not look noticeably different from singleplayer.

What's ridiculous is that you're comparing a corridor shooter to one that has much much larger scale environments.

 

[vanquish]

It's called Public Relations. It's old news.

So was Microsoft/ ATI lying or does the 360 really do 'free' 4xAA and developers chose to disable/ decrease the AA so they could gain the small performance benefit, that turning it off would give?

 

[AlNom]

So was Microsoft/ ATI lying or does the 360 really do 'free' 4xAA and developers chose to disable/ decrease the AA so they could gain the small performance benefit, that turning it off would give?

If you knew anything technical, you would know that the ROPs are designed with 4xMSAA in mind. The only issue is tiling, which will impose a greater geometry processing load. Read the Xenos article. All the information you seek for understanding can be found, but apparently, you are not making any effort (as apparent from the fact that you haven't bothered reading the Bungie articles on Spherical harmonics or even the streaming presentation that I pointed out earlier).

To say that Bungie is even using the same engine in Halo 3 as Halo 2 is simply asinine. You are simply basing that statement off of what you see, which is more due to the art direction Bungie has decided upon.

 

[vanquish]

What's ridiculous is that you're comparing a corridor shooter to one that has much much larger scale environments.

Not my point, I'm saying that there is no noticeable loss in visual quality when you play splitscreen in Gears of War, unlike Halo 3.

 

[AlNom]

Not my point, I'm saying that there is no noticeable loss in visual quality when you play splitscreen in Gears of War, unlike Halo 3.

Every game has trade-offs dependent upon developer focus. To assume otherwise is folly. Just think about how much was going on-screen in Gears of War versus Halo 3.

 

[vanquish]

Anyway this is besides the point, the point is that the 360 has substantial performance potential, which isn't being exploited by first party developers (relative to 3rd parties at least), unlike the PS3.

 

[vanquish]

Every game has trade-offs dependent upon developer focus. To assume otherwise is folly. Just think about how much was going on-screen in Gears of War versus Halo 3.

Not much admittedly, but Gears had much more detailed character models, textures, lighting etc.

 

[vanquish]

Not much admittedly, but Gears had much more detailed character models, textures, lighting etc.

So it isn't an apples to apples comparision, Resistance 2 is a much better corollary to Halo 3 in this respect.