ps3 much more powerful than xbox 360?

[jvd]

And that surprises you how? It's a new format. I wouldn't expect anything less. But what i'm trying to tell you is DVD, at one point, was very expensive, too, but because we got a simple version of it, it helped ease the manufacturing. What PC is saying is BECAUSE the new format will be so expensive, Sony won't be able to pack as much as they want into the console - making their console equal or inferior to the 360. THAT is what I find to be the most unbalanced assumption yet.

Diffrence is dvds were launched in late 97 which gave it 3 years of mass production before it went into the ps2 and was still expensive. As it stands now bluray is avalible in a few products at the very high end of the spectrum

Comparing the two at this point wont let you make any valid points . All we will know is that the bluray drive will cost more than the dvd drive . how much so is anyones guess. But that is still more money that can be used else where

 

[rabidrabbit]

jvd, In going from VHS to DVD the change was much bigger technologically than going from DVD to Blu Ray, that I think explains partly why DVD player prices remained quite high.
Transition from DVD to Blu-ray is still much based on exsisting tech, and market adoption could be faster than with dvd because of backwards compatibility.

 

[jvd]

jvd, In going from VHS to DVD the change was much bigger technologically than going from DVD to Blu Ray, that I think explains partly why DVD player prices remained quite high.

We got our first dvd player for 500$ which was a no big deal player in 97 i believe . In 1999 when my sister got her ps2 i got my dvd player for 200 and it was a progressive mode player with a 3 dvd changer caddy and a 5.1 dobey decoder built in , you could get a cheap no name for aroudn 100$ at the time .

Now we can get a top of the line dvd player with everything you could want for 50$ . I replaced my old one in the living room with a progressive mode dvd player + vcr with everything i could want . I got a 16x dvd writer +/- dual layer 4x + for 80$ .

Dvd hardware is def at very very low prices and i don't think you can even state that a bluray player will cost close to the price of a dvd player

Transition from DVD to Blu-ray is still much based on exsisting tech, and market adoption could be faster than with dvd because of backwards compatibility.

blu-ray is going to be slowed by the adoption of hdtv . House holds with out hd-dvd will not pick up a bluray drive till they have a hd-dvd . I don't realyl see the point of watching a bluray quality movie on a ntsc standard res tv. I think alot of consumers are going to feel the same way .

Then lets not forget that they are still having trouble with the blue laser and it still costs alot more because of that trouble .

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What kept the costs of DVD high? What were the expensive parts? Is this tech transposable to BluRay?

I guess DVD was a derivative of CD but that didn't keep prices down. Anyone know why this is? Given they're all motor, head and laser I can't see why each iteration of the same basic tech starts at such high costs.

 

[London Geezer]

jvd, In going from VHS to DVD the change was much bigger technologically than going from DVD to Blu Ray, that I think explains partly why DVD player prices remained quite high.
Transition from DVD to Blu-ray is still much based on exsisting tech, and market adoption could be faster than with dvd because of backwards compatibility.

I'm sorry to say, after having witnessed a 1080i source on a new Sony plasma HDTV (see the general forum), i can safely say the jump from DVD to Blue-Laser formats is going to make people go WOW just like they did when they first saw DVDs, if not more.
Obviously, you'd need a lot of money to get the best quality out of it, whereas DVD showed its advantages even on "old" normal TVs.
But really, it's something that needs to be seen to be appreciated.

 

[a688]

What kept the costs of DVD high? What were the expensive parts? Is this tech transposable to BluRay?

I guess DVD was a derivative of CD but that didn't keep prices down. Anyone know why this is? Given they're all motor, head and laser I can't see why each iteration of the same basic tech starts at such high costs.

I'd imagine because of the technology behind the head/laser. Its like asking why a F1 car isn't the same price as a civic. I mean, they are just a body, engine, and 4 wheels.

 

[gurgi]

Its like asking why a F1 car isn't the same price as a civic. I mean, they are just a body, engine, and 4 wheels.

So which is Blue Ray, the F1 or the Civic?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

a688 : Yeah, of course, but you've a different engine, different wheels, different construction, higher quality components, etc. In an optical drive you can, I assume, use the same motor, chasis, controller and so forth. The differences I know of are the head/diode, and I guess a much finer control motors. Maybe producing them of this quality is difficult at the mo' and that's where the costs are?

l-b : No matter how good the quality is, if people can't afford it HD won't shift! You're average Joe can't afford umpteen thousand quid for HD gear, especially when they're all already ten k in debt paying for their recent technology upgrades on credit. I can't see a high take up of HD players and TVs for many years, at least in the backwater European Continent. Though that in part is due to the scummy tech companies charging us twice as much as the Far East and Far West.

 

[see colon]

i always thought the hardware that decoded the mpeg stream was the expensive part of the dvd player. at least when they were launched.
looking at the pc market back in '97 software decodes were slow, especially on the technology of the day, and it wasn't until 98 or 99 that i saw a software decoder that would play a dvd in full resolution at full speed, and that was on a top of the line rig. hardware decoders were expensive (almost prohibitively so, i remember them costing $200 alone, and even more if you bought one bundled with a drive) but have been steadily dropping in price, and now most gpu's have almost full mpeg2 decoders built right in.

 

[jvd]

at first the drives themselves were expensive . It takes time for the costs to drop. Everything is espcialy made for the drive . The "laser" is also expensive it seems like they are getting really bad yields on them last time i looked into it , dunno how much has changed but that is the growing pains of everything .


You can't compare bluray + ps3 to dvd+ ps2 as they are both in diffrent times of thier lives . dvd was already into its years of mass production where as bluray is just coming to life and it may even be still born and a hybrid hd-dvd/bluray might make things more expensive in the short term as existing plants may have to be geared adn tweaked towards the new stnadard

 

[London Geezer]

l-b : No matter how good the quality is, if people can't afford it HD won't shift! You're average Joe can't afford umpteen thousand quid for HD gear, especially when they're all already ten k in debt paying for their recent technology upgrades on credit. I can't see a high take up of HD players and TVs for many years, at least in the backwater European Continent. Though that in part is due to the scummy tech companies charging us twice as much as the Far East and Far West.

Obviously, i even said that in my post, all i said is that the difference is there and it is VERY evident. Obviously prices are just too high for most people to care. But that doens't change the fact that a 1080i image leaves you breathless. It left me breathless the first time i saw it, and i always breathe.

 

[Spidermate]

Dvd hardware is def at very very low prices and i don't think you can even state that a bluray player will cost close to the price of a dvd player

This is not Blu Ray we are talking about. It's an entirely new format. However, the technology will be based on both Toshiba and Sony. The alliance by itself will help lower the cost.

blu-ray is going to be slowed by the adoption of hdtv . House holds with out hd-dvd will not pick up a bluray drive till they have a hd-dvd . I don't realyl see the point of watching a bluray quality movie on a ntsc standard res tv. I think alot of consumers are going to feel the same way .

Then lets not forget that they are still having trouble with the blue laser and it still costs alot more because of that trouble .

In a console? Heck no. And what makes you think Sony will settle with high price hardware? I believe that was one of the reasons for them wanting to merge the format.

 

[Carl B]

I don't think the manufacturing ramp-up will be a big deal, hybrid tech or not; they said they would include blu-ray in PS3, and thus must have had a manufacturing plan in place for the long-term, inclusive of this fact. If they go hybrid, ironically maybe it'll be even easier for them to ramp it up - who knows? I don't think the blu-ray decision, whatever the cost, will be factored into the 'main' componentry of the PS3 either as far as the costs of the system go. Reason I say that is because the blu-ray drive in PS3 on it's own was considered it's own isolated loss-leader for the help it would give in blu-ray adoption.

Sony and Toshiba have a pretty amicable, on again/off again relationship, so whatever they do work out I'm sure it'll be with their common interests in mind, inclusive of the PS3.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Now we can get a top of the line dvd player with everything you could want for 50$ . .

Eventhough I'm about 80% with you on that one, i'd still like to see you post that on avsforums

 

[London Geezer]

Well, Toshiba has a lot to win from a cross-compatible Blue-Laser drive in PS3. BlueRay was gonna have quite a lot of coverage from being in PS3, and Toshiba must be more than happy to give the new format a kickstart with something as mainstream as Playstation.

But it won't be cheap. I'm sorry for you guys, it just won't.

 

[jvd]

Now we can get a top of the line dvd player with everything you could want for 50$ . .

Eventhough I'm about 80% with you on that one, i'd still like to see you post that on avsforums

bestbuy had for 60$ a 5 disc changer , progressive scan playback , component out and optical out built in for a dts decoder that was also built in like 3 months ago

 

[PC-Engine]

And that surprises you how? It's a new format. I wouldn't expect anything less. But what i'm trying to tell you is DVD, at one point, was very expensive, too, but because we got a simple version of it, it helped ease the manufacturing. What PC is saying is BECAUSE the new format will be so expensive, Sony won't be able to pack as much as they want into the console - making their console equal or inferior to the 360. THAT is what I find to be the most unbalanced assumption yet.

Diffrence is dvds were launched in late 97 which gave it 3 years of mass production before it went into the ps2 and was still expensive. As it stands now bluray is avalible in a few products at the very high end of the spectrum

Comparing the two at this point wont let you make any valid points . All we will know is that the bluray drive will cost more than the dvd drive . how much so is anyones guess. But that is still more money that can be used else where

Hear that boys? Thanks jvd, some people tend to have amnesia when it comes to those kinds of things.

But PC-Engine reasoning that Xbox might end up with better processors because MS can make up for the difference in price is just his usual Pizza Hut logic.

When has your logic ever made sense? I'm still laughing at you initial response and final reaction to Xenon development kits based on Apple G5 computers. So unless you have an argument of why MS wouldn't be able to do that, I suggest you go back to taking pizza orders.

jvd, In going from VHS to DVD the change was much bigger technologically than going from DVD to Blu Ray, that I think explains partly why DVD player prices remained quite high.
Transition from DVD to Blu-ray is still much based on exsisting tech, and market adoption could be faster than with dvd because of backwards compatibility.

Uh ever heard of a technology called CD-ROM???

What kept the costs of DVD high? What were the expensive parts? Is this tech transposable to BluRay?

I guess DVD was a derivative of CD but that didn't keep prices down. Anyone know why this is? Given they're all motor, head and laser I can't see why each iteration of the same basic tech starts at such high costs.

Those are the pertinent questions init?

You can't compare bluray + ps3 to dvd+ ps2 as they are both in diffrent times of thier lives . dvd was already into its years of mass production where as bluray is just coming to life and it may even be still born and a hybrid hd-dvd/bluray might make things more expensive in the short term as existing plants may have to be geared adn tweaked towards the new stnadard

Man jvd you da man!!!

 

[London Geezer]

I'm still laughing at you initial response and final reaction to Xenon development kits based on Apple G5 computers. So unless you have an argument of why MS wouldn't be able to do that, I suggest you go back to taking pizza orders.

Errm yeah, my reaction was a "Why get so excited about pics of a freaking G5", even if it happens to be the Xenon devkit. Why does that matter here though? Oh wait, it doesn't. Logic.

 

[PC-Engine]

I'm still laughing at you initial response and final reaction to Xenon development kits based on Apple G5 computers. So unless you have an argument of why MS wouldn't be able to do that, I suggest you go back to taking pizza orders.

Errm yeah, my reaction was a "Why get so excited about pics of a freaking G5", even if it happens to be the Xenon devkit. Why does that matter here though? Oh wait, it doesn't. Logic.

It matters everywhere you post because you never learn from your illogical arguments.

 

[London Geezer]

I'm still laughing at you initial response and final reaction to Xenon development kits based on Apple G5 computers. So unless you have an argument of why MS wouldn't be able to do that, I suggest you go back to taking pizza orders.

Errm yeah, my reaction was a "Why get so excited about pics of a freaking G5", even if it happens to be the Xenon devkit. Why does that matter here though? Oh wait, it doesn't. Logic.

It matters everywhere you post because you never learn from your illogical arguments.

Thanks for your invaluable contribution to the thread. In the end the one who takes the shit from the mods is me, so why should u care to crap all over these forums huh...

Moving on...