[PS3] LittleBigPlanet Impressions

[deathindustrial]

The motion detection uses motion sensors, which are only triggered by players. So it can't be the prisoners that were setting it off.

I would argue that this can't be completely true.

If you drop a box of explosives, it blows up regardless of how close it is to the player at impact. In the case of the explosives by the prisoners, what seems to happen is that the "prisoner" hits a box to the left and this causes the explosion. Moving slower does not help, you can just stand there and the prisoners will cause an explosion by their jumping eventually.

Perhaps the brain of the prisoners and the motion sensor for the bombs are connected?

Cheers

 

[JardeL]

This is the key that I'm complaining about Shifty ; [ http://i43.tinypic.com/5k0yf9.jpg ] ... Actually you cant see it because it's vaporised ... I jumped and grabbed it , it started to move by itself and poof :] ...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I would argue that this can't be completely true.

If you drop a box of explosives, it blows up regardless of how close it is to the player at impact.

There are two types of explosives - static scenery ones and the moving ones. The moving ones are sensitive as the needle shows. Move it too violently and it explodes. The static ones are linked to a motion detector like the Witch's house.

In the case of the explosives by the prisoners, what seems to happen is that the "prisoner" hits a box to the left and this causes the explosion. Moving slower does not help, you can just stand there and the prisoners will cause an explosion by their jumping eventually.

Hmmm. The motion detector works with an array of motion sensors spawning objects that knock against a trigger. If too many knock too quickly, it's set off. As the sensors are one-shot, if you stand in the same place then no weights will be spawned.

One possible theory is the jury-rigged Prisoner death system. When the explosives go off, I spawn a key that sets off the Prisoner suicide trigger. But this was so darned buggy with the missle prisoners! It just wouldn't work consistently for that set of prisoners, although the others it worked perfectly with. I found basically shooting them with the key seemed to work. I have a key hidden in the boxes that gets blown into them. Perhaps they are getting close enough to the key and self-destructing, which somehow sets off the boxes? Or maybe it's just the collision that sets them off? Anyway, I'll give it a look.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But I went behind it and climbed on it's back. Only then did I try jumping back to the front in hopes that what I saw (no color so it's hard to see) was its brain. I'm glad you are being clever, but if it's not fun and the player just quit what is the point? Game design is to satisfy the players not the developers.

Very true. But then there are different types of games for different people. People who like Mario might not like God of War, for example. The Scourge is an adventure game for people who like thinking about problems. Whether it manages that or not is dependent on feedback. A dev can't tell if they've got the game right without feedback from test subject. My 'testing department' didn't uncover the problems of that are being raised here.

So what is the trick, nothing in the rear seems to do anything either.

Spoiler

Find your way underground to where the prisoners are. At the end of the tunnels is a weak column that holds up the dragon's cave and a big box of explosives. You can leave the explosives by the column so the Grimmaulchkin walks into them to set them off while you stay a safe distance away. With the floor blown out, the power of the dragon is *UNDERMINED*

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This is the key that I'm complaining about Shifty ; [ http://i43.tinypic.com/5k0yf9.jpg ] ... Actually you cant see it because it's vaporised ... I jumped and grabbed it , it started to move by itself and poof :] ...

And that happens often? Once I had it disappear when an explosive dropped nearby to loosen it, but not before. That suggests it's too tight in the space. I'll see about tweaking it.

 

[JardeL]

Not often but always ... At least for me ...

 

[patsu]

These two points are another valuable lesson in LBP creating. In both cases the text is very clearly 'You can't do this' and yet expectations are that you can. The key is placed in a gas filled cavern with an army of killer Grimmaulchkins and spikes on the entrance, no way to reach the key on the pedstal, no way to get the key out even if you can grab it...and it's on the wrong plane to be of any use to boot! Yet the standard play experience of LBP is that every goal can be directly reached and solved. Likewise, the fire-breathing dragon, we are told, has killed an entire army, slays the critters effortless, is bristling with spikes, and we are told it could never be beaten in a frontal assault, if only it's power could be UNDERMINED, and yet the player expects it to be killable by jumping on its head!

Seems that one should really 'know ones audience' and target it with what it is expecting. Kinda like, dropping a Zelda level in the middle of Mario would leave the players scratching their heads.

I finally get to play more LBP today. Completed the MGS DLC and played all your levels. Couldn't agree more with your statement above. ^_^

I'll spoiler tag my comments. Didn't dare to read the thread because people were talking about user levels in the clear.

Spoiler

At first my family were scratching their heads on what to do next (i.e., How to kill the dragon !?).

Then I noticed the tree house (Didn't see it the first few times) and the rest cliqued.

Tried to grab the key a few times, but concluded that it's a "featured bug" (or buggy feature). Tried to rescue the prisoners but alas (!) none survived. Finally, all were happy to see the dragon plunged to its death.

We liked the small animals and the narratives (Nice touches !). Hated the lightning near the cottage. The dragon was ok but why is there a light at the end of the cave ? I thought it was some sort of switch. Rescuing the prisoners were indeed too risky/hard.


The other bubble levels were ok. My wife and I enjoyed them.

The MGS DLC was awesome. We had a blast playing it.

I noticed that in the "News" section, Media Molecule has started to highlight some user levels. They seem to be of good quality but I have not played them yet (Needed to tuck the little guy in).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not often but always ... At least for me ...

I made some changes yesterday that I hope fix this, but I couldn't replicate the problem so can't effectively test any solutions . Also added little reward points-bubbles.

@ Patsu : Trying to understand why people aren't understanding the level, what were you thinking/experiencing when you read the narrative balloons? Did you read 'NArrative Adventure - READ THE CLUES' etc. in the level description, or did you just jump into the level? When the little girl says about her sister 'HIDES near the TREEHOUSE' did anything at all twig or was it just words on the screen?

 

[Cornsnake]

Maybe you could try to get players into thinking the right way by starting out by giving them a clue that is extremely obvious, and then build it up from there.

I know I don't always read the description of a level before playing. Most level don't have crucial information in their description, or no description at all.

 

[patsu]

@ Patsu : Trying to understand why people aren't understanding the level, what were you thinking/experiencing when you read the narrative balloons? Did you read 'NArrative Adventure - READ THE CLUES' etc. in the level description, or did you just jump into the level? When the little girl says about her sister 'HIDES near the TREEHOUSE' did anything at all twig or was it just words on the screen?

I jumped in right away without reading anything. It was an after-dinner activity for us, wasn't expecting a

Spoiler

dungeon crawl

.

I checked the description after getting smoked by the dragon several times. "READ THE CLUES" didn't really tell me anything (as I was thinking "Huh, what clue ? color coded ? hints ? switches ?"). May be "Pay attention to what the villagers are saying" would be more effective, but it's like giving the game away (almost !) ^_^


I liked the narrations because it gave the game one more dimension. Like I said, the small animals are nice too

Spoiler

until the cottage. What triggered the lightning ? I waited for the sheep to get away from me before trying to pass it, but I always got struck by the lightning there, except for one time

Maybe you could try to get players into thinking the right way by starting out by giving them a clue that is extremely obvious, and then build it up from there.

I know I don't always read the description of a level before playing. Most level don't have crucial information in their description, or no description at all.

Yea, I like this idea better than the "Pay attention to what the villagers are saying" one.

 

[JardeL]

Played the level last night and I can say it's ready now except prize objects [ it seems there are 4 on the level's info page but I've seen / got nothing ] ... But I'm not into collecting prize objects so it's ok for me ...

The key point of this level is patience ... Grabing , moving explosives is not so hard ... I like the difficulty level of the level and now it's fun to play ...

And yes I'm JardeL and #1 ...

 

[patsu]

One nice touch about LBP is their "My Friends" implementation. I noticed a few of you (Arwin, DrJay, jonabbey, m3freak) took pictures of yourself + kid and use it as your LBP profile pic. It gives a rather interesting feel to the game while browsing.

 

[JardeL]

I'd like to see Lost's characters' costumes ... That would be cute , think about Jack , Kate , Sawyer , Locke , Hugo and Benjamin ...

Yep , just watched Season 5's first two episodes ...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I've added anew creation, "Onooi!". I've tried to address the points raised thus far about the expectations of players, but seem to have fallen flat on my face. Out of 18 plays, only 1 has got to the end register a score! And the sole comment I have is 'too confusing'. Would like to have some richer feedback if anyone wants to take a look and report.

 

[patsu]

I saw you went offline. Will try it out with my son this evening !

 

[patsu]

Shifty, I played with the Onoogi level with my family. tuna74 joined halfway but we couldn't get our connection going.

In any case, I think I know what the problem is. The story level (The abstraction of the charms) is not explained. We were all stucked at the 2 shrines, not knowing what to do. I searched through the stickers and couldn't find anything relevant.

What are we supposed to stick to the shrines or the floating err.. bookmarks ?

 

[DrJay24]

One nice touch about LBP is their "My Friends" implementation. I noticed a few of you (Arwin, DrJay, jonabbey, m3freak) took pictures of yourself + kid and use it as your LBP profile pic. It gives a rather interesting feel to the game while browsing.

Ya, I had my son in the pic, then my daughter asked to be in it now she is hogging the whole pic. They still ask me to play daily, but I like to let some time go by so I will see some new levels. At least now they will ask me to play Magic Ball.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In any case, I think I know what the problem is. The story level (The abstraction of the charms) is not explained. We were all stucked at the 2 shrines, not knowing what to do. I searched through the stickers and couldn't find anything relevant.

LBP doesn't half bug me at times! In creation I used a Kanji sticker won in the Story mode. I then found playing from another account without lots of collectables that they hadn't the sticker and they couldn't use the level at all! Doh! So I edited the level to replace the command sticker with a custom sticker, in a bubble at the first shrine. Then watching a mate play, he didn't know to scroll all the way to the end of his sticker menu to find the custom sticker. Basically it's a game mechanic that's a bit messed up and people miss. If you didn't pick up the sticker bauble, it'll be there now. Very frustrating, that originality just isn't properly supported. Perhaps there's good reason people's creations are straight platformers?

 

[patsu]

I wouldn't give up what you're trying to pound into LBP players just yet ^_^
Straight shooters are easy past-times. Some thinking levels spice things up tremendously too.

I'll give it another go.

Ya, I had my son in the pic, then my daughter asked to be in it now she is hogging the whole pic. They still ask me to play daily, but I like to let some time go by so I will see some new levels. At least now they will ask me to play Magic Ball.

Ha ha yes, I remember you told me you have 2 kids (or at least 2). Mine is hogging SingStar. I don't know how exactly the photo option works, but *if* it's automatic upload, you'd find his pics under the nick "sunshinelucas". He should have tons of SingStar photos by now.

 

[deathindustrial]

Then watching a mate play, he didn't know to scroll all the way to the end of his sticker menu to find the custom sticker.

A bigger problem with using stickers is the &^@$%!ing ridiculous profile size limit. I've been hitting the "profile too large" message so often lately that I have been ruthlessly deleting any community content since there is no way of knowing how much space you have used or where until it is too late. I like the sticker mechanism but until (if?) they change the profile size it should be considered dangerous to use that.

The worst of it is that the community objects are not even viewable from the play menu so unless you browse onto "my moon" and then try to edit a level you will not even realize that is where your space is being used up.

Arrrgh.

I love this game and play it regularly but almost every time I fire it up I am flabbergasted at the dichotomy of brilliance to obliviousness displayed by the game's designers.

Cheers