[PS3] LittleBigPlanet Impressions

[Silent]

The more I think about it the harder time I have seeing how it would work in the full context of the game. Right now it's stimulating to have to work a little to get the more rare objects.

It is strange because normally things like achievements on my 360 or trophies doesn't stimulate me that much to replay things.

But in LBP I have replayed a lot of levels just to get those objects (some difficult to get) It is just a very rewarding mechanism.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

All three had voice, yes. I had the PS Eye again (maybe Shifty can comment on the sound) and I'm sure at least one other player probably had the PS Eye because I heard an echo of my own voice through one of the voice channels (with like a three second delay). It worked pretty well, because we really did talk a lot about how to tackle the problems.

Yep, PSEye all round. I plug headphones into the TV to cancel out my echo. The voice chat was clear and undistorted, like a telephone call. However it was very quiet, and there's no independent sound-channel adjustment. The best I could do was turn off the music and try t hear people over sound effects, which was quite hard at times. I think I missed most of Arwin's cunning suggestions as we battled with chucking an undead groom through the air...

The more I think about it the harder time I have seeing how it would work in the full context of the game. Right now it's stimulating to have to work a little to get the more rare objects. A lot of people are now playing coop to get the extra materials, clothes, etc. and it's a strong motivator. Also, with the coop puzzles, if it had unlimited lives it would get less exciting and challenging, which would be a shame.

That is true. I think in a way this shows the tragic shortcoming of the game. The coop is brilliant, challenging and fun. The physics bugs end up just being enjoyable, like when I gave a lecture about being very careful with the explosives and then blew up the moment I grabbed hold. But much of the game, getting from one coop puzzle to another, you're better off when the players die leaving one to get over the obstacles. I think a more coop-centred campaign alongside the single player events would have been a better structure.

Sadly I won't be joining anyone for coop or creating my LBP masterpiece at the moment, as my PS3 just died. The drive won't recognise any discs, game or DVD

 

[Jaeyden]

It's the camera, plain and simple, that hinders the co-op experience. You spend hours upon hours building a level. You play through it a hundred times and figure it's perfect. Then you get online and play with more people and the best parts of your challenge become impassible obstacles because the camera won't follow the right player. It's got a very simple solution too...my screen should follow me and your screen should follow you. They do this and the co-op experience becomes a whole new game and levels that aren't particularly designed for multi-player don't end up looking like turds to people because their group can't get through it. I've probably spent 20 hours alone tweaking my levels so they are more 'co-op' friendly, but at a price too. I've had to remove what I consider to be some of the funnest elements because of that damned camera. Fix the camera and you won't need unlimited lives.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

was playing the whole day yesterday, couldn't get online co-op to work even once ! felt really bad, me n my friends kept trying to connect for the whole day, but to no avail ! is it the servers?
A surprising tjing was that I was enjoying the user levels more than the disc levels . the disc levels get difficult sometimes, with the difficult jumping and the limited lives.
hope the online works fine soon ! coz the real fun is there.

also customising the sackboy is really sweet

 

[Shifty Geezer]

was playing the whole day yesterday, couldn't get online co-op to work even once ! felt really bad, me n my friends kept trying to connect for the whole day, but to no avail ! is it the servers?

Yes, it appears they still haven't got the servers working properly.

Jaeyden : I had similar in the Beta, where fast moving leaves players behind, making races impossible. The independent camera per system would actually be easier than synchronized cameras for the devs to implement, but I guess that they want the experience to be the same for online and offline coop. The limited camera thus imposes design limits that keeps things fair, while sadly ruining some of the potential. I don't think the Camera object is flexible enough to allow a wider playfield.

 

[JPT]

was playing the whole day yesterday, couldn't get online co-op to work even once ! felt really bad, me n my friends kept trying to connect for the whole day, but to no avail ! is it the servers?

It could of course be the server, but I was unable to download your player profile when trying to connect to you and when you tried to connect to me it said connection problems. But when a friend close to where I live tried to connect to me it worked fine.

That is why I suspected maybe a router/nat/firewall issue, could you possible try to connect the PS3 to the internet without firewall/nat between the PS3 and the internet?

 

[Cornsnake]

Yes, it appears they still haven't got the servers working properly.

Jaeyden : I had similar in the Beta, where fast moving leaves players behind, making races impossible. The independent camera per system would actually be easier than synchronized cameras for the devs to implement, but I guess that they want the experience to be the same for online and offline coop. The limited camera thus imposes design limits that keeps things fair, while sadly ruining some of the potential. I don't think the Camera object is flexible enough to allow a wider playfield.

You can set the camera to zoom out, but I don't think you can get it to zoom out further then it does with two players at the opposite ends of the screen.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Got to play online co-op finally but the lag is sadly present Otherwise we were all laughing and teasing each other ! I am going on the move for the next 20 days so won't be able to play. Hope it improves by the time I come back !

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You can set the camera to zoom out, but I don't think you can get it to zoom out further then it does with two players at the opposite ends of the screen.

Yeah. There is the option of the tilt though, which'll add a bit more view in the distance, but it'd not ideal. Alternatively you could lock the camera to a view without it following the lead player, maybe attach it to an object around which the players have to venture not-too-far.

As far as lag's concerned, I experienced none playing online with Arwin. Might be yet more server teething issues.

 

[JPT]

Got to play online co-op finally but the lag is sadly present Otherwise we were all laughing and teasing each other ! I am going on the move for the next 20 days so won't be able to play. Hope it improves by the time I come back !

What?!?!? But but I put in atleast 15 minutes going through the PS3's connection through my router

Anyways here it is


Logged into PSN

================================Nat session table==============================
Slot Prot Internal-IP ort Outgoing-IP ort External-IP ort Idle
================================================================================
45 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51447 84.209.125.238 :12177 198.107.158.136:5223 186 <- service.playstation.net

Loading LBP

================================Nat session table==============================
Slot Prot Internal-IP ort Outgoing-IP ort External-IP ort Idle
================================================================================
44 UDP 172.18.18.7 :60420 84.209.125.238 :12869 84.208.20.111 :53 21 <- dnscache02.get.no / My ISP DNS cache
45 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51447 84.209.125.238 :12177 198.107.158.136:5223 96 <- service.playstation.net

Finished loading and in pod.

================================Nat session table==============================
Slot Prot Internal-IP ort Outgoing-IP ort External-IP ort Idle
================================================================================
22 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51299 84.209.125.238 :12904 81.93.176.21 :80 10 <- unknown*
25 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51312 84.209.125.238 :12883 217.18.28.42 :10061 38 <- unknown**
27 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51300 84.209.125.238 :12902 198.107.158.150:80 6
45 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51447 84.209.125.238 :12177 198.107.158.136:5223 212 <- service.playstation.net
59 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51302 84.209.125.238 :12898 81.93.176.21 :80 19 <- service.playstation.net ; so this means we are hitting some sort of loadbalancing/server farm setup when connecting to service.playstation.net

*Unknown, but the 15 first hops are identical to the service.playstation.net, so I assume its a Sony server of some kind.
**Unknown, but last hop that replied was cetcrt008.online.scee.com, so its safe to assume its a Sony server


Friend joined my pod

================================Nat session table==============================
Slot Prot Internal-IP ort Outgoing-IP ort External-IP ort Idle
================================================================================
19 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51289 84.209.125.238 :12977 217.18.28.42 :10060 19 <- see above
22 UDP 172.18.18.7 :49152 84.209.125.238 :49152 192.168.1.41 :3658 97 <- friends lan ip*
25 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51312 84.209.125.238 :12883 217.18.28.42 :10061 199 <- duplicate from above.
26 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51295 84.209.125.238 :12966 198.107.158.154:3478 93 <- service.playstation.net
33 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51292 84.209.125.238 :12971 198.107.157.225:3480 90 <- unknown**
42 UDP 172.18.18.7 :49152 84.209.125.238 :49152 84.48.218.221 :3658 102 <- friends wan ip
44 UDP 172.18.18.7 :49152 84.209.125.238 :49152 84.48.218.221 :25848 102 <- friends wan ip
45 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51447 84.209.125.238 :12177 198.107.158.136:5223 84 <- service.playstation.net
59 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51302 84.209.125.238 :12898 81.93.176.21 :80 180 <- service.playstation.net
73 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51296 84.209.125.238 :12964 83.231.156.21 :80 99 <- last replying hop is in London, could be another SCEE server.

*This is wrong since "martians" does not get routed if your ISP knows what they are doing. And the question is how did it get there, because

1. My friends nat router should fix this.
2. His ISP should filter all Martians
3. My ISP should filter all Martians

But it might be a to big load on the ISP's routers to check src ip's for martians and it gets dropped/filtered when I try to connect to that IP. Still #1 is the most perplexing to me.

**The first 16 hops are identical to service.playstation.net, so I assume its a Sony server of some kind.

There is two connections to my friends IP, we where using headsets and this might be the reason, I need to do another check when we don't use headsets.


Playing a level with a friend in co-op mode.

================================Nat session table==============================
Slot Prot Internal-IP ort Outgoing-IP ort External-IP ort Idle
================================================================================
8 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51267 84.209.125.238 :13077 198.107.156.150:80 3 <- service.playstation.net
13 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51264 84.209.125.238 :13083 198.107.156.126:80 2 <- service.playstation.net
23 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51266 84.209.125.238 :13079 198.107.159.147:80 4 <- service.playstation.net
26 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51295 84.209.125.238 :12966 198.107.158.154:3478 143 <- service.playstation.net
33 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51292 84.209.125.238 :12971 198.107.157.225:3480 139 <- unknown, see above
35 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51261 84.209.125.238 :13087 198.107.157.146:80 0 <- service.playstation.net
42 UDP 172.18.18.7 :49152 84.209.125.238 :49152 84.48.218.221 :3658 26 <- friends wan ip
45 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51447 84.209.125.238 :12177 198.107.158.136:5223 170 <- service.playstation.net
48 TCP 172.18.18.7 :51259 84.209.125.238 :13089 217.18.28.42 :10061 15 <- unknown, see above

Now we see there is only one connection to my friend, we are still using headsets. But I am not sure if we said anything at this point. So one of 3 things is going on.

1. Only the voice data is transmitted between us and game data goes through the servers.
2. Voice and game data is transmitted between us, but both sets uses the same connection.
3. We had not said anything yet, ie no voice connection had been established. I'll do another trial later to verify which is actually happening.

 

[habbe]

Maybe your firewall supports "SIP" ?. (and if SCEE are using sip to get thru NAT)

Becasue you would not have any connectivity between rfc1918 or martians between ISP:s (even thou they are using filters on source ip, They are not routed between ISP:s)

With SIP support in your firewall/router you can see the local address/nat address at the other end.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

So, How much has our dear LBP sold till now ?
Is the magic of the awesome fun working? (Fix the lag MM)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It doesn't sound like it's done phenominally well. We've already heard Gears 2 sold 2 million. LBP doesn't top any charts AFAIK, and Sony haven't announced any huge success of their favourite property. If it is a big success, no-one's shouting about it, which would be very out of the ordinary!

 

[BadTB25]

It was sold out at my local Best Buy. In comparison, they had plenty of Gears of War 2 (standard and LE).

Funny thing was when I asked the clerk if they had any in stock, he told me that it was recalled and hasn't been re-released. The Gamestop on the same block of property had 3 on hand.

Did Sony maybe under-ship or has the recall effected store stock? Also, I find it curious that none of the stores I visited have this on for a demo.

 

[wco81]

Seems there are more commercials for LBP than R2.

Will be interesting to see how they sell relative to each other.

Seems like the hype for LBP has pushed attention for KZ2 and Home to the background.

So will that LBP hype pay off?

 

[patsu]

Over time. It's cute and different enough to attract new audience as long as Sony keeps at it.

The follow-up Disney DLC and other goodies will help too. In short, we have not seen the last or all of SackBoy yet.

 

[Cornsnake]

I just played Jaeyden's The Jade Fortress level. It's very good, one the best user made levels I've seen. I has a few nice puzzles and a good boss fight. I also played his Ice BOuND 007 level. Again very nice, but I did manage to break it twice. Once by grabbing on to the tail end of the helicopter, which caused it to fall backwards and get stuck. And the second time I fell on the bombs just before the second snowmobile. The respawn point just before that was now hanging above the fire, which caused me to die over and over again until I ran out of lives. I'll probably try the rest tomorrow.


If anyone wants to try my Uncharted River of Barrels, and give me some feedback on it, that would be nice. Although an updated version is already in the works. It should look a lot better when I republish it, and again be a bit easier to play.

 

[patsu]

I will only start LBP tomorrow evening. Add about a week for me to complete the standard levels.

 

[Jaeyden]

Thanks Cornsnake. You should give Grinder!, Starstruck! or Invasion! a try. They are considerably better than Icebound! It was a level I made just before the beta ended and quite honestly it just doesn't work as well as I would have liked. I have played Uncharted River of Barrels a few times now but I can't seem to get past the the third platform. For some reason my jet ski kept disappearing when I tried to jump off it and I would die in the river. Looks cool though, can't wait to see it all come together. I'll keep trying it as you republish.

 

[Fafalada]

Actually, I like the platforming.

So do I. I found it quite similar to Lego series myself(though physics in LBP tend to be more robust), but without the camera and visibility frustrations, so actually easier on some level (of course, you can't die in Lego, so there's no actual challenge to completing levels, but I got extremely frustrated over losing coins over and over again on jumps that should be easy but aren't because you can't SEE shit).

The difficult bit here is balancing it for different users with different skills.

But that's the case with all games of this type. Traditional platformers (Mario, Sonic, Klonoa...) all have life limits, and other then Klonoa on GBA I got frustrated with all of them after 1-2 levels mainly because of it.
LBP didn't turn me off in the same way, which to me says the game is overall quite a bit more forgiving then any of above classics (or possibly just more fun - yes, I did go there ).