[PS3] Killzone 3 game discussion

[patsu]

I can't seem to join a game (Warzone) now...

I can hear other players in the "Connecting..." screen but the game stays there 4ever.

Tried to get into Guerilla Warfare but got an error message at first (World is full). And then same thing... stuck in the "Connecting..." screen.

EDIT: I'm in !

They found the problem. Unfortunately it will take some time before Sony could release the fix to us:
http://community.killzone.com/t5/Ki...V-listening-to-your-issues/m-p/797367#M109236

Another update from me: Today we finally managed to reproduce and fix the connectivity issues that people are having. Unfortunately we could not fix them server side as we initially thought but we have to patch the game.

I know all of you want to have your hands on this patch tomorrow, but that is unfortunately not the way things work at Sony. When we submit a game to QA they test all functionality of the game (including single player) to make sure that we did not unintentionally break something. In this case because of the network code change, they need to spend a lot of extra time testing multiplayer. This will mean that it will not be possible to put the patch live before the weekend. I can't give you an exact time for the patch to go live because as soon as QA finds a problem we need to resubmit and it will take longer.

Now for the technically savvy people:

The problem is MTU related as I said before. If your MTU is below 1478 then you're affected. Today we found out that people with low MTUs affect people with a high MTU. If someone with low MTU is in the game before you you will have to wait very long (or forever) on the 'connecting' screen. If you're already in game and someone with a low MTU joins, this person can actually cause a network error for you. We also saw the issues with lag and incorrect hit detection that have been described.

You can test if your connection is ok by opening a command prompt on your PC and typing:

ping -f -l 1450 www.sony.com

If ping responds with:

Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.

Then your MTU is too small and you will have to wait for the patch.

(Note this test is only 99% accurate as you're not pinging the game servers but www.sony.com.)

If you see something like:

Pinging www.sony.com [64.37.182.61] with 1450 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.37.182.61: bytes=56 (sent 1450) time=184ms TTL=246
Reply from 64.37.182.61: bytes=56 (sent 1450) time=185ms TTL=246

your connection is fine and you should be able to play.

If you connect to a game and you get stuck for more than 20 seconds in the 'connecting' screen then back out and try again (someone with low MTU is in the game). The system is programmed so that it will never put you in the same game twice.

If you find that you cannot play properly in warzone then switch to warfare or operations. These games are smaller so there is a smaller chance that someone with a low MTU is playing with you.

 

[Phil]

I hate 2 things in multiplayer and it happened in KZ2 too - you can play in the isa or helgast team full of people and the other team with 3 or 4 players, as, you can have in the same team all generals and the other team just recruits. There should have been an option (checkbox) to choose equilibrated games avoiding these 2 things from happening - I know friends want to play together, but what's the interest of being all the time a "duck", or, hunting 3 to 4 "ducks"? Interesting no?! I don't think so and it takes me away from multiplayer.

Yes, this is indeed an issue. I played some more yesterday and regardless which mode you play, I constantly kept being assigned to games where we were either few against a large number of players and more importantly, recruits vs. already experienced generals, sometimes even a full group of people playing.
In KZ2 at least, you just left and tried a different game. Problem solved. Try doing that in KZ3 and there's a good chance you'll keep getting assigned to the same game (happened 3 times in a row last night, before I had to give it a break!). I wouldn't mind the horrendous match-making as much, if we at least had a level-playing field like in KZ2 (in KZ2, all you needed was a fully loaded M82 rifle - the standard rifle - and you had all you needed). Here though, the more you level up, the bigger the advantage you get, starting with stronger/more accurate weapons, or more boost, better disguise, more ammo, two secondary weapons. A sentry-turret of a fully upleveled engineer will even fire rockets at you. WTF?

I suspect the only reason this mode even exists is because of people who complained that KZ2 lacked a COD-like deathmatch mode (you could set up Warzone to be just TDM, but you spawned in your base). I do not intend to ever play it, even once, because if I wanted to play COD, I would.

I prefer the objective-based mode too, but starting as a recruit, it's rather difficult to get into (see the matchmaking complaints further up), the levels are rather large with few players. Most missions I attended usually end up the same - you spawn, start a far journey to the objective, get close to objective, BAM, dead. Sometimes, you're revived, then BAM, dead again. On such a large level, upleveling to some decent weapons takes long time and is frustrating, especially because a game typically lasts between 20 and 35 minutes (7 * 5 minutes per objective). That's not a bad thing if you have time and a good game going but it's most definately annoying if you're playing against a group of people who either don't care for objectives or are at such an advantage quantity wise that it just isn't fun anymore.

Then there's the infiltrator class. Fully upleveled infiltrators have full sprint and stay disguised even at very close distance. This wouldn't be such a big issue if only the melee wouldn't be CoD-powerfull. In fact, it's even more powerful than in CoD - you can kill an enemy at any angle just at the press of a single button instantly. How can that be more powerfull than pumping an entire M82 clip of bullets into his upper body as he's coming at me with boost?

One of the biggest complaints in the CoD MP games is the overpowered kniving. I now consider KZ3 even worse in this regard. I stopped counting the amount of times I was knived since I started playing the game, mostly by disguised infiltrators on boost.

I actually like the new maps when I stick together with teammates. Going solo is like a grudge match for me. Since I can't cap an objective without teammates' help, I kept going back to my last area to get even. And again and again.

I'm sorry I don't.
From all the levels I've played, Frozen Damn, MALWR level and Bilgarsk Boulevard are easiest the best. Pyrrhus Crater is just annoying with its green glow (maybe it's because I'm playing on a projector?), Snow-Drift is practically unplayable for me (again, maybe because I'm playing on a projector and the contrast/colours are less suited) and the Jungle level is just like a complicated maze. Strangely though, I never came across the Turbine level or Corrinth Highway.

They're not bad, but IMO lack the attractivness the KZ2 levels had. Tharsis, Radec, Corinth, Bloodgracht, Salamun market, even Helghan Industries and Pyrrus were brilliant in their own way.

I really wanted to like the KZ3 MP, but it pains me to say, the more I play, the less I'm inclined to play this with the flaws it has. It's like they took everything brilliant about KZ2 and threw it out of the window (sans the controls).

 

[patsu]

The matchmaking problems may be related to the small-MTU connection issues. i.e., Your teammates got disconnected. So far all of my games are rather balanced (missing 1 or 2).

 

[patsu]

I'm sorry I don't.
From all the levels I've played, Frozen Damn, MALWR level and Bilgarsk Boulevard are easiest the best. Pyrrhus Crater is just annoying with its green glow (maybe it's because I'm playing on a projector?), Snow-Drift is practically unplayable for me (again, maybe because I'm playing on a projector and the contrast/colours are less suited) and the Jungle level is just like a complicated maze. Strangely though, I never came across the Turbine level or Corrinth Highway.

They're not bad, but IMO lack the attractivness the KZ2 levels had. Tharsis, Radec, Corinth, Bloodgracht, Salamun market, even Helghan Industries and Pyrrus were brilliant in their own way.

I really wanted to like the KZ3 MP, but it pains me to say, the more I play, the less I'm inclined to play this with the flaws it has. It's like they took everything brilliant about KZ2 and threw it out of the window (sans the controls).

I haven't played MAWLR Graveyard and Jungle yet. Perhaps those maps do not support Warzone ? Turbine and Corinth Highway are Warzone maps, or at least they support Warzones. What mode are you playing ?

EDIT:
I played Saluman exclusively last night and most of today. Haven't tried Bloodgracht yet.


My main role is Medic. Have unlocked self healing, which is a blast ! ^_^ Surprised my enemies many times, and revived my teammates after everyone's down (Turned the tide).

I'm also building up my Infiltrator character. They are indeed hard to detect, but I go by hunch these days. Shoot/melee whenever something doesn't feel right. Most of the time I could keep them away from me. I also played as Infiltrator a few times (Unlocked level 2 disguise). The enemies could spot me (and shot me from behind) even when I have not fired once. Only one point away from level 3 disguise (Highest level). Will see how well my disguise work after that. ^_^

 

[specwarGP2]

My main role is Medic. Have unlocked self healing, which is a blast ! ^_^ Surprised my enemies many times, and revived my teammates after everyone's down (Turned the tide).

I really like playing as medic as well. My favorite thing to do is when someone kills me and I self revive and run up behind them and do a brutal melee

 

[patsu]

Yap ! Self reviving ftw. Can we stick a proximity mine to ourselves ? I know we can stick one onto a teammate. It would help take out your melee killer ('specially Infiltrators).

That's why I generally shoot to kill instead of melee.

 

[Phil]

I really like playing as medic as well. My favorite thing to do is when someone kills me and I self revive and run up behind them and do a brutal melee

WTF? Don't tell me you can do this?! That's like the worst possible way to break a game completely. The 2nd-life perks in Call of Duty were already bad enough, as when you shoot someone, they should be dead. I can live with a medic class that can revive people at some distance and risk (though I think it's pretty useless and more of an annoyance to both the killed player and the person who did the kill and deserves it) - but being able to revive yourself? I'm disgusted.

That might explain a lot of my deaths last night where out of nowhere someone would melee kill me from a place that I checked and had covered. It never occured to me that he may have been the same player I just killed moments before...

 

[ShadowRunner]

Only medic can self revive. First rule of KZ3, double tap medics. Or flank him and let him revive and take him down again for a free kill The more you play the game the more rules you learn, like headshot any team member running directly at you and run your crosshairs over everyone if infiltrators are about.

 

[Phil]

Only medic can self revive. First rule of KZ3, double tap medics. Or flank him and let him revive and take him down again for a free kill The more you play the game the more rules you learn, like headshot any team member running directly at you and run your crosshairs over everyone if infiltrators are about.

The thing I hate about these 'features' is that it breaks up the rythm completely. I count my shots and know exactly how long I have to stay on the trigger until I *know" the enemy is dead. If I have to make sure my enemies are *really* dead, I have to engage further risk to either put another bullet into him (by looking down at him to aim) or walk up and melee him. The killed player should *never* hold any advantage over someone who just killed him.

The same applies to disguised infiltrators. Sure I can shoot every single one of my own members - but with 64 rounds of ammo, I don't exactly have enough to 'spread the joy'. Then the crosshairs - worked in KZ2, not in KZ3. In KZ3 a fully upleveled infiltrator can practically walk right up to you without your crosshair turning red. Or by the time it does, you're already meleed.

 

[ShadowRunner]

But its not a matter of not knowing who is dead, if you down a medic you know for a fact he is still alive every single time. There is no confusion involved you just need to take into account that medics require an extra bullet. No different to any other game where someone might be wearing armour or have sheilds etc.

All in all it sounds like the game doesnt really suit your style of play, which is fair enough. For me it seems the opposite. I notice you play mostly GW, the problems you are having are going to be amplified here, especially with infiltrators because of random spawns and lack of objectives. The class system works much better in the other modes, GW really isnt what the game is balanced for.

I am playing with Move though, maybe i would have the same frustrations if i was using DS3.

 

[Cornsnake]

Medics can only self revive once per life right? After that they need to respawn again before they can use that ability again.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Yep thats right. Im not sure if they can be revived by another medic though or if they bleed out immediatly?

 

[Phil]

But its not a matter of not knowing who is dead, if you down a medic you know for a fact he is still alive every single time. There is no confusion involved you just need to take into account that medics require an extra bullet. No different to any other game where someone might be wearing armour or have sheilds etc.

No, there is a difference. If I shoot a player and the player drops to the ground, I assume he's dead, just as I'm dead as a tactician when that happens. A player with armor just lives longer. If he's not dead, he's not dead yet, so I'll continue and even if that means I have to pump my entire ammo clip into him.

Distinguishing classes is not always easy, especially when at a distance, or at an angle (i.e. from behind) and is only made worse by some of the levels and the effects (like the snow storm level, or the pyrrhus crater one). Always knowing what you shoot at is sadly not a luxury that's always around.

Regardless if it is possible to learn the rules of the game, some rules make for a better game, some for worse. Medics reviving themselves is one of them, just as is 2nd-life-perk in the CoD franchise. They cause more upset then they do good. They might be fun for a while when using them, but all in all, if you lose a gun-fight, you should not get the opportunity to kill him back. It's as pointless as the CoD: Black-Ops feature of spawning close to your killer.

All in all it sounds like the game doesnt really suit your style of play, which is fair enough. For me it seems the opposite. I notice you play mostly GW, the problems you are having are going to be amplified here, especially with infiltrators because of random spawns and lack of objectives. The class system works much better in the other modes, GW really isnt what the game is balanced for.

I am playing with Move though, maybe i would have the same frustrations if i was using DS3.

It is correct that I used to play GW more often in the beginning (for the reasons outlined above in my other post). That's partly because of the difficulty of upgrading there and the frustrating match-making.
I also agree that some issues (the level effects) may be due to me using a projector and compared to any LCD disadvantegous contrast/gamma. It's not just that there is one dominant issue though. In KZ2, both GW or objective-based misssions were fun and worked within the same level. The homebase camping IMO was a lot less annoying than being spawned right smack in the middle of a fire fight (in fact, my best K/D were mostly in games where our base was being camped by the enemy!). And even if not, you were free to exit and chose a different game, thanks to there being customized games.

Perhaps you're right that the game isn't a lost case. If they tone down the melee move, correct the match-making, things will start to look a lot better. I do think the levels are rather big though and not having a spawn grenade certainly hurts (I still don't get the useless spawn points). If classes weren't that overpowered would certainly help too, as as I said, playing against maxed out players is frustrating when you don't even have a decent weapon or the ammo and have to hike the entire level to get some action (that being mostly shot at a distance and the whole thing starts again)...

 

[Antan]

http://www.killzone.com/kz3/en_GB/blog/news/2011-03-03_patch-1-04-announcement.html

CHANGES & NEW FUNCTIONALITY

* Network - Lag fixes and fixes for network errors 10002, 8001 and 8013
* Gameplay - Players now have more stamina by default. Sprint length is increased but the recharge timer has been adjusted to compensate
* Gameplay - Mortally wounded players no longer have collision. Alive players should now be able to traverse the levels without getting stuck on mortally wounded players
* Gameplay - Medic's revive cool-down reduced from 25 to 10 seconds
* Gameplay - Increased range from where friendly players can be revived - player can be revived from 20 meters now
* Gameplay - Guerrilla Warfare games now last 15 minutes and it takes 100 kills instead of 50 to win
* Performance – Improvements to party creation server load
* Menu - Show envelope icon to indicate that player has received message
* Menu - Rewards panel in post game screen now auto-scrolls
* Menu - Botzone is now paused when player goes to start menu
* Menu - Single click squad invite
* Menu - Enhanced idle detection code in menu, the player isn’t spawned if he’s still pressing buttons
* Security - Several security, anti hack and cheat fixes

BUG FIXES

* Stability – Fix for an occasional crash bug when in the Credits screen and transitioning straight into Multiplayer via a Invite
* Stability – Fix for potential hang when players migrate between maps
* Gameplay - Player can retain crouched collision after deploying jetpack
* Gameplay - The Assassination Executioner medals only count Deadly Assassin kills, not Executioner kills
* Gameplay - Cloak kills with weapons that break cloak now count towards medal for Cloak levels 1 and 2.
* Gameplay - Global - Medic’s Triage droids now disappear when player quits out of game
* Gameplay - Cloak/Disguise cannot be removed manually by accident anymore
* Gameplay – Fix for rumble in Exo being over-powered and out of sync
* Gameplay – Fix for Silent Footsteps remaining active after choosing other skill and removed from the personal stats menu
* Exploit - Akmir Snowdrift - Player can reach the boat by using an ammo box to exit the intended boundaries
* Functionality – Disc eject now handled more gracefully
* Trophies - DLC 1 ‘Little Big Weapons’ Trophy does now counts rocket launcher and StA2
* Clan functionality – Fix for player quitting and re-joining a tournament, they may re-enter a tournament alone.
* Menu - Find game – Operations - Mode description - Spelling issue fixed
* Menu - Friends: Fix for Clan tags being displayed for a max of nine players despite the number of player that are in the clan
* Menu – Fix for incorrect message given when attempting to join a Clan Game that an online friend is taking place in
* Menu - Spawn-screen – Fix for when the extra Primary Weapon skill is equipped, the weapon description goes out of sync
* Menu - Accolades do now show subsequently
* Menu - When receiving a squad invite from a player in another match, there is now a warning that the player will leave his current game.
* Menu - Scramble detailed range and in-game range now match properly
* Menu - The Spot and Mark description in the unlock menu is now correct
* Menu – Fix for when the player presses the SQUARE button when a player that is in their game is highlighted in the squad lobby menu they receive the message ‘You cannot join a play that is not in a game.’
* Menu - Turn off animations for the squad list to avoid it becoming unreadable every time a rebuild occurs when voice chat is activated
* Menu – Fix for when trying to join a friend without the required DLC pack, the message will tell the player they are part of a squad.
* Menu – Fix for the message informing the player they are attempting to join a DLC game without the required DLC content installed reading better
* Menu - Increased Accuracy & Faster Reload Ribbons now update in the personal statistics screen.

 

[corduroygt]

Very nice changes for the medic, switched from marksman to medic and I really appreciate the class, it was a bummer to not be able to review 2 players in a row, now it's only 10 seconds. Also nice to see that I won't get stuck on people on the ground, it was really annoying.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I said, playing against maxed out players is frustrating when you don't even have a decent weapon or the ammo and have to hike the entire level to get some action (that being mostly shot at a distance and the whole thing starts again)...

Ironically it sounds like you may have more fun playing a medic with the revive ability, so you dont have to trek the whole level again once you die

 

[patsu]

Yep thats right. Im not sure if they can be revived by another medic though or if they bleed out immediatly?

You can use Self-revive exactly once. If another medic revived you before you self-revived, you can do it yourself next time.

You cannot self revive when melee'd (before or after going down). Turrets and bots will shoot until the medic dies "completely". You cannot self revive in body count.

 

[patsu]

So far, the advanced capabilities sound scary but they are actually not that bad. You should be able to play any class from the get go, and level up quickly. You can also use powerful weapons dropped by someone, or the advanced weaponry like the Exo and WASP.

The rocket turrets, self and teammate revival, perfect disguise, perfect cloaking, TSP grab can swing the tide repeatedly. As long as you play as a team, I think the outcome will be unpredictable.

They do break deathmatches, but I think they offer interesting strategies for objective play. I miss the gas grenade from MAG though. Think there should be one in KZ3.

I am going to experiment with proximity mine next. I wonder if it's useful against Infiltrator and Marksman.

 

[corduroygt]

If you're complaining about levels being too large, play operations, it's like BFBC2 where you only play in a small portion of the map at a time and progress to the next part after the objectives are met. There are only 3 maps, so you can get to memorize them quicker.

 

[patsu]

I think not all maps support Operation mode. I much prefer Warzone with the same team of people. ^_^

Each advanced classes have their unique strength for different missions. e.g., An "arch-medic" could revive an assassinated target without losing an assassination round if he's quick enough, the rocket turret and airbot are a b*tch when you're trying to take a Search & Destroy objective; they are the "anti-medic" since they will automatically force a bleed out. The Marksman is very effective in clearing out the objective room silently, the Tacticians is very quick in taking a spawn point (3x quicker ?) and can force a radar check on everyone's location (except the Marksman). Infiltrator OTOH is the best in delivering a portable mission objective because of his infinite sprint and disguise.

Marksman seems to have the upperhand in combat. A team of Marksman would be terrifying.
I think GG may need to tune the game further as we play more (or rather abuse the system more).

EDIT: I forgot both Infiltrator and Tactician can carry a rocket launcher. So they should help level the playing field a little against Marksman. Also perhaps an Infiltrator will be spared by an enemy Marksman because of his "perfect" disguise.