PS3 Endless Saga image..

What nonsense! The clip of HS showed like a thousand enemies wandering over the screen. They're not in view, and then they are. Every game has varying degrees of complexity based on the scene, except maybe Tetris. If an SP game can go from 1 player character to 1 PC+1000 NPCs on screen, the same can be achieved if those NPCs happened to be network players. Either your engine scales down the detail when thing get complicated, or you target your engine to use 100% in a most complex scene and then use less than 100% when things are simple.

The only problem an MMO introduces is always adding a character when a player is online, and if the number of players exceeds the 1000 the engine can happily accomodate and the engine can't scale to fit them then there'll be glitches. In an SP game the number of chars on screen can be locked to maximum. However we don't know how this is handled in Endless Saga, whether there are limits as to how many characters can enter an area, or whether the other players are portrayed with simpler, less detailed models so the engine can accomodate 2000 on screen at once. You've taken a pic of 1 character and imagined a game where that level of detail couldn't be maintained in order that you can disbelieve the image is ingame. How's about you wait until there's more details on the game? If Sega announce there's 5,000 models of this detail at once I'll join you in your skepticsm. But at the moment don't second-guess what the developers will fail to achieve when they build their engine to accomodate the requirements placed on it when you have only pretty random guesswork as to what those requirements are.
 
jvd said:
Because in sp games the developer can control the amount of characters on screen at once. IN a mmorpg you can not .

Just the other day in swg I was in a group and we were 8 people and there were 48 grunds we were fighting . Then another group got a mission right next to us and there were another 48 grunds + another 8 players . Then there were housing and other random creatures .

None of this is controlled by a dev .

This is the reason why mmorpgs have allways lagged behind other genres . This is why eq2 is the best looking mmorpg released and it lags way behind in both performance and visual quality compared to the fps's of the time (doom 3 , half life 2) and other genres .

ah now THAT makes me believe the shot its not real-time...... not

that means i must be dreaming when i play a racing game and see the cars far far away very very low detailed with square wheels, but when i get close to them they are a perfect car after all.
must be a dream... not possible to do the same in anyother genre.... oh wait

thats a realtime shot of the scene... will it be in a game? who cares, it says in the site its real-time unreal3 engine shot. You wont get better confirmation than this one.

Being or not being part of an actual game its irrelevant to the fact that it's real-time or not.
Its like saying that Car is not a car because he is not in a road but in Car show.
pointless argument.


weither way, we seen much better detail in PS3 techdemos already, moving in real-time in front of our eyes.

Edit: and just in case.... that cutscene from Gears of war (the helicopter) also looks overall much better. (lets hope i dont look like a sony fan boy... afterall i'm defending a point that happens to be a PS3 game)
 
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What nonsense! The clip of HS showed like a thousand enemies wandering over the screen. They're not in view, and then they are. Every game has varying degrees of complexity based on the scene, except maybe Tetris. If an SP game can go from 1 player character to 1 PC+1000 NPCs on screen, the same can be achieved if those NPCs happened to be network players. Either your engine scales down the detail when thing get complicated, or you target your engine to use 100% in a most complex scene and then use less than 100% when things are simple.
at 5fps
 
jvd said:

funny.... now wasn't the target 30fps according to deanoC? i remember him saying its possible.
Afterall they only had devkit for a short period by the time the clip was shown. but lets forget this fact.

semantics works both ways...
 
hm... I'd be interested to know how well what was shown of HS at E3 was running on the X360 Alpha Kits... Just to compare...
 
Alstrong said:
hm... I'd be interested to know how well what was shown of HS at E3 was running on the X360 Alpha Kits... Just to compare...

wrong thread..... this is sony bashing... :D
 
dskneo said:
funny.... now wasn't the target 30fps according to deanoC? i remember him saying its possible.
Afterall they only had devkit for a short period by the time the clip was shown. but lets forget this fact.

semantics works both ways...

I'm not the one using a video that was sped up to reach that visual quality as my proof that something can be done .

I am only telling you what hs was running at .

What happens in the futre isn't my concern as Hs may never be able to run what was shown at 30fps . It may allways be 5 fps .

It also doesn't have any of the other over head that mmorpgs have
 
jvd said:

jvd...you talk about facts and stuff...and yet you throw out the 5fps out of nowhere. This may be the case for HS...but whos to say there getting good results for this game. That connection is false and the only info about this game is that its an MMO and the screenshot is Unreal3 Engine thats in game. Whats to dispute? I can't be CGI (unless their specifically trying to fool us, which I would think is the last thing they would do). To make a bold statement that its in game...what else can you say? Your basically accusing the developers of this game of being liars.
 
jvd said:
I'm not the one using a video that was sped up to reach that visual quality as my proof that something can be done .

I am only telling you what hs was running at .

What happens in the futre isn't my concern as Hs may never be able to run what was shown at 30fps . It may allways be 5 fps .

It also doesn't have any of the other over head that mmorpgs have

oops there you go, the "If....".
I was waiting for that one.

just made my case... its all about the "if's"

changing scenario, KAmeo was at 30fps (?) showing hundreds of trolls and guess what... just few seconds before she was fully detailed.
oh sorry, my bad.... i guess its not possible. My dreams are gonna kill me someday.

how about GT4 forza etc?... very very fully detailed cars when near, racing bricks when far away.


Who has bashed sony ? Is this game made by sony ?
oh pardon me... to many coincidences in your posts across the forum. I guess i was fooled by "repetition" and "coincidence"
 
oops there you go, the "If....".
I was waiting for that one.

just made my case... its all about the "if's"

I'm not the one using ifs . I have given reasons why . I'm not the one who brought up hs as the fact that this game can be done at this quality lvl when its an If that hs can even be done at what was shown .

All sony fans keep showing are ifs . If hs looks that good then why can't this look that good . It doesn't cut it . I gave my reasons why this wont looki good and they are based in fact. What has been thrown bak at me by the sony ghestopo is Ifs

oh pardon me... to many coincidences in your posts across the forum. I guess i was fooled by "repetition" and "coincidence"
I like when a new poster who's ever post is pro sony comes in and tells someone what thier post history is like .
 
jvd said:
What happens in the futre isn't my concern as Hs may never be able to run what was shown at 30fps . It may allways be 5 fps .

Come on jvd you don't honestly think that HS will play at 5 fps next year do you? Grow up man, I don't know what has gotten into lately. Has someone steal your account?
 
mckmas8808 said:
Come on jvd you don't honestly think that HS will play at 5 fps next year do you? Grow up man, I don't know what has gotten into lately. Has someone steal your account?

I think what happened is I'm through with the bs here. Just like your post your putting words in my mouth .

When Did i said hs will come out at 5fps ? No where , you said that . I have only said that it may not be able to achive the quality that was shown at greater than 5fps . And thus using it as proof while its future is in doubt is laughable . As the graphics for hs may have to be toned down and the enimes you fight may have to be lowered to achive 30fps .

The problem here is sony fans wanting to make a villian by adding words or making things up to make me sound worse . I have very valid points and sony fans don't seem to like that . I think i'm very balanced with my bias leaning towards sega . Which I have allways freely admited. But it seems to me like this forum is headed by a large amount of sony fans that feel they can say and do whatever they want
 
jvd said:
I think what happened is I'm through with the bs here. Just like your post your putting words in my mouth .

When Did i said hs will come out at 5fps ? No where , you said that . I have only said that it may not be able to achive the quality that was shown at greater than 5fps . And thus using it as proof while its future is in doubt is laughable . As the graphics for hs may have to be toned down and the enimes you fight may have to be lowered to achive 30fps .

The problem here is sony fans wanting to make a villian by adding words or making things up to make me sound worse . I have very valid points and sony fans don't seem to like that . I think i'm very balanced with my bias leaning towards sega . Which I have allways freely admited. But it seems to me like this forum is headed by a large amount of sony fans that feel they can say and do whatever they want

DeanoC talking about Heavenly Sword said:
Currently they are all on a single processor core, so the framerate
drops pretty sharply at high number of entities... but this should go
away once we have had a chance to work the machine properly...

Isn't that what DeanoC said? Your making it seem like that 5fps is the end all adjustment for HS and that they need to make sacrafices to up the fps (which may be true...but that statement shows that there not utilizing the full system). You like to take statements out of context and use them for your own statments. 5fps isn't the speed of the final build.
 
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Quote:
Currently they are all on a single processor core, so the framerate
drops pretty sharply at high number of entities... but this should go
away once we have had a chance to work the machine properly...


Isn't that what DeanoC said? Your making it seem like that 5fps is the
No its you that is making it seem that way . Even Deano says only "should". He himself doesn't know what the final image and fps will be when they have the final machien and he doesn't know if they have to cut stuff or they can add more stuff when they hit the 30fp.

Using it as proof that something can be done when the developer doesn't know if it can be done isn't proof . Its a lack of proof and only adds more substance to my own claims .
 
jvd said:
I like when a new poster who's ever post is pro sony comes in and tells someone what thier post history is like .

oh thats right... according to my registration month/year in this forum, i was born in july 2005 and not 30years ago. smart one.

and the "sony Fans" you are talking about, are the ones laughing at your excuses that the picture in this thread is not REAL-TIME just because its from a certain type of game.

now thats ridiculous.... and calling those ppl sony fan-boys its even more brainless.

and my history is not trolling sony good things with semantic excuses. not trolling like you makes me fªnboy? then guess what it makes of you.

wasn't born yesterday man. I just like to give a hard time to those who, do what you do these days.
 
jvd said:
No its you that is making it seem that way . Even Deano says only "should". He himself doesn't know what the final image and fps will be when they have the final machien and he doesn't know if they have to cut stuff or they can add more stuff when they hit the 30fp.

Using it as proof that something can be done when the developer doesn't know if it can be done isn't proof . Its a lack of proof and only adds more substance to my own claims .

Please STOP it jvd. Ninja Theory at that time weren't really using the SPEs. Aren't the SPEs the MAIN thing in the CELL chip? Lets get real about this discussion. Stop bashing.
 
jvd said:
No its you that is making it seem that way . Even Deano says only "should". He himself doesn't know what the final image and fps will be when they have the final machien and he doesn't know if they have to cut stuff or they can add more stuff when they hit the 30fp.

Using it as proof that something can be done when the developer doesn't know if it can be done isn't proof . Its a lack of proof and only adds more substance to my own claims .

You where the one that threw out 5fps and your the one throwing out the "If"s about Heavenly Sword being 5FPS. You even stated that in the condition its in now..that it could be 5FPS if it where to be released in the visual level its at now. So to say that he himself doesn't know what the final build will be like and yet say that the game at its current level will have to be toned down because of the fps is hypocrisy.

This shouldn't have turned into a "Heavenly Sword runs at 5FPS thread" but if HS does do the whole massive enemies thing..then I would think that Endless Saga could do the same..but you wouldn't have to worry about AI since the majority of the entities on screen will be controlled by humans.
 
I threw out 5fps because that is what the video was running at before sped up to be shown .



Do you disagree with that ?
 
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