[360, PS3] Dragon Age: Origins

[deathindustrial]

I think I am at the last battle but the difficulty level (or perhaps how stupid my party AI is) ramped up enough that I am not sure if I will actually bother finishing it as the process is pretty frustrating. It sucks so much that there is no "run away you idiot before you die" tactics choice. Instead the AI is mostly Leroy Jenkins. Since there is no option to queue up party commands (you are kicked out of the circle menu right away) it also is pretty hard to try to control everyone manually.

I also find that the big battle followed by big battle followed by big battle dynamic with no save option becomes pretty tedious if you have to make multiple tries at it.

In the game's defence I should disclose that I never finished the final Oblivion battle either (which was a slideshow on the PS3).

=)

With this game being so heavy on dialogue, I wonder how it will compare to Heavy Rain. In DAO the role playing / story aspects are great, the battle not so much. Perhaps removing the battle stuff altogether would result in a more coherent, moving experience?

Cheers

 

[betan]

I haven't used Wynne at all after the Circle quest. My elf mage had AW and Spirit healer as specializations.
Spirit healer was a must because of the revive spell. The healing aura thingy is also nice as it cures injuries as well.

 

[Billy Idol]

I haven't used Wynne at all after the Circle quest. My elf mage had AW and Spirit healer as specializations.
Spirit healer was a must because of the revive spell. The healing aura thingy is also nice as it cures injuries as well.

where did you get the healing specialization?

 

[Gradthrawn]

where did you get the healing specialization?

Unlike many of the others that you learn from your team, this one (as well as some of the others), you have to buy from a vendor. As a book, if memory serves me.

 

[Colourless]

You can learn the specialization from Wynne.

 

[Billy Idol]

You can learn the specialization from Wynne.

ha ha, then I am even more happy that I killed her !!!

EDIT: found the healing specialization in the mage shop in denerim (or whats the town called): just bought a book and got it!

 

[Billy Idol]

game is very addicting.

I recognized yesterday, that I have a voucher for a Dragon armor and for a special side quest were you can get a stone golem as a companion:
now the tides have turned: with healing specialization, stone golem + dragon armor...I can crush through all hordes without a sweat (note: I am exaggerating for the dramatic effect).

Although the game has a lot of technical flaws (Bioware hates stable framerate it seems!?!?) and some things are annoying (loading takes forever, saving takes forever) it is somewhat addicting and thus great!!


EDIT: finally finished the game...took me 39 h of gaming. I'd say: graphics is ok, framerate is not. I don't like this strategy based gameplay too much, because usually I want direct real time action! What I really like is the great story and the immense immersion of the game and the rather fast up-leveling (although I only got to rank 19 with my elf arkane warrior mage and there seems no option to play this game again with your character to further level up). Magic spells were great and specializations good ideas. What I really don't like in games is when there are a lot of different story options and different endings - I always have the feeling that I miss something.
Overall: great game!!

 

[liolio]

I got the gme yesterday second hand for 25€, I'm pretty happy about it I didn't expect to find it this cheap (even if I'll miss some DLC).
It's ugly but at least it performs ok. I read some stuffs and decide to move from my usual class which is mage to make a Dwarf rogue
I considered archery a moment but I decide to go with some high DPS high cunning dual wielder instead.
So far I'm pleased with the game even tho the lack of tactical view makes things a bit tougher to manage.

 

[liolio]

Update I'm happy I bought this second hand or I would have been terribly angry.

It's imho a bad joke, close to a shame. So many stupid decisions and backed up by a careless execution and testing...

I remember the complains about Sacred 2 may be some stuffs were broken in Sacred 2 but Bioware managed to get away with an attritube being broken, dexterity... is that a bad joke?

The last minute removal of the tactical view has to be one of the stupidest decision I've seen in a while in game design especially as it was implemented... You can order a character to move you get to take on control of it... in the mean the rest of the party is in jeopardy relying on AI...

Oh but I forgot about it... there no AI... you have tactical slots, companion will cycle through...
It seems that writing some half decent scripts that would support three different classes and some play styles were out of reach of Bioware... they decide to let the buyers finish the job...
Come on You won't never have enough slots vs the number of spell a mage can learn...
Even for non mage companions it's tough to get enough slots and basically you're simply throwing skills away for the sake of a stupid decision.

Honestly I start multiple party the story looks acceptable, but I'm close to quit and I would not advice any body who liked BG/IWD/etc. liked tactics, etc to get this game.
To make things better they decide on top of a bunch of stupid decision to make some encounters incredibly tough (anything with overwhelm, revenants...).

A bad joke... When I see how much of this joke they manage to sell... Between this and ME2 which underwhelmed me I will willingly pass on anything EA or Bioware releases minus it's backed by an outstanding demo.

I'm crossing finger for the Lord of the ring game and Dungeon siege III with not much hope, as it looks like for some reasons some people can understand that those games were pretty neat as they were and they feel like they have to messed with the gameplay...

By the way the first vid of DS3 gameplay has been released.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Best setup in this game:

3 Mages with as much AoE as possible + solid tank.

With this, you are unstopable.

 

[Rolf N]

Mostly agree with liolio. Bioware must have stellar PR on the ground to be able to get passing grades from the press time and again.

Dragon Age is all conversation trees, with the gameplay totally phoned in. The skill trees make it so that if you don't go with the one thing that works, you'll have nothing to spend points on and gimp yourself. Eg if you don't dual wield swords, your character isn't viable in melee, and hardly viable in physical combat period.

But what really gets me are all these pseudo-deep character conflicts wrt quest decisions. No matter where you go, the optimal way to play is to trek back to the world map, boot the whiner(s) out of the party, and get on with what you want to do. Or maybe don't and gimp yourself again by losing potential party setups. Yaaaaaay, fun. I feel so intellectually stimulated here. Artificial, rote bullshit this.

Baldur's Gate I already was and still is leagues ahead of Dragon Age, which is crazy considering all the years in between. Shame that all the best western RPG makers are now dead or struggling, while the good salesmen at Bioware and Bethesda can still go on selling the same old pap. Just imagine what Sirtech Canada could do with a budget like this.

*grumble*

 

[Gubbi]

Best setup in this game:

3 Mages with as much AoE as possible + solid tank.

With this, you are unstopable.

I'd say: One meat shield, one archer, one healer and one damaging mage.

A high level (and high dex) archer do a lot of damage with arrow of slaying and scatter shot. With high magic and elemental resists an archer is almost impossible to kill.

Cheers

 

[liolio]

Best setup in this game:

3 Mages with as much AoE as possible + solid tank.

With this, you are unstopable.

Thanks for the advice Eventhough while avoiding spoiler I already read quiet some guides/tutorials/threads about the game mechanic.

Actually I was really peaced off yesterday because I started the game multiple times without finding the set-up that made me happy. I tried some days ago to go back to a rogue heavy party, till I realise that something was wrong in regard to damages... I forgot about the infamous dex bug...

Anyway I went back to my Two-handed tank and move from the forest from now (done with those f***** overwhelming weres...) I hope it will be better at higher lvl (trying to get use to having two mages in the party). It was ok in the "castle" (no spoiler).

anyway, I like to open locks, doors, disable /set traps, etc. So I'll stick with two mages a tank and Leliana.

THe story is compelling so I guess I'll stick with the game defaults and lacking but clearly Bioware was way too careless one that one imho.

 

[Gubbi]

Dragon Age is all conversation trees, with the gameplay totally phoned in. The skill trees make it so that if you don't go with the one thing that works, you'll have nothing to spend points on and gimp yourself. Eg if you don't dual wield swords, your character isn't viable in melee, and hardly viable in physical combat period.

The skill tree make it so you have to specialize.

Dual wielding only makes sense for rogues since you already spend most of your points on dexterity.

The two skill groups for warriors, shield, and two handed weapons favours different playing styles. Specializing in shields makes you much harder to kill, specializing in two-handed weapons makes you do much more damage (particularly against bosses).

Spoiler

A shield warrior build tops out with 42 in strength so that you can carry any armour in the game. A few points in cunning to open up skills/talents, the rest in dexterity, for defense. The name of the game here is defense *and* armour.

For a Two handed warrior build you spend the bulk of your points in strength (70+). Spend a few in cunning and willpower. Completely ignore dexterity!! Rely on your armour to soak up any damage, and your talents to stun and kill your opponents quickly.

I've had five play throughs with five different builds: Shield warrior, Two handed weapons warrior, dual wielding rogue, rogue archer and mage (healing+basic damage). Each build offers different challenges at different points in the game.

The fact that it takes a little effort to figure out what works best is what gives the game depth and replayability. That somebody can mistake this for poor gameplay design is beyond me.

Cheers

 

[liolio]

A question Gubby, you play on PC?

On console Dex is still broken thus it affects archers/finesse meleers (warrior or rogue). It's a bit unacceptable, it's not a tiny thing like some spells or some talents, it's one of the main attribute in the game.

The removal of the tactical view on console makes imho micro management a bit adverse... That's tough in a game that presents quiet a challenge. Obviously killer player will always manage to solo through the game no mater what but Bioware didn't do much to help players (on console at least). I would go as far as to say that they instead did the opposite, what is the influence on of some stupid marketing people on this decision? I don't know it was still stupid.

Avoiding (minimizing) micro management the palyer has to spend lot of skills points on "combat tactics" which put aside a part of the richness of the game: the skills.

But the biggest failure of the remove of the "tactical view" is that you can't move a character without taking control of it... Say you move a character for some seconds you can't micro manage your team and that's for moving 1 companion.

Honestly DA:O is a pretty bad port. From the tech to the controls implementation imho.

Some critics doesn't apply to PC version still even on PC Bioware push the game out with some pretty unacceptable flows. (The dex problem is/was unacceptable imho).

 

[Gubbi]

A question Gubby, you play on PC?

On console Dex is still broken thus it affects archers/finesse meleers (warrior or rogue). It's a bit unacceptable, it's not a tiny thing like some spells or some talents, it's one of the main attribute in the game.

I play on the 360. I didn't use daggers for my dual wielding rogue, so never found out about the dex bug (lethality and high cunning instead)

<tactical view missing

Honestly DA:O is a pretty bad port. From the tech to the controls implementation imho.

I don't think it is a bad port at all. Yeah, emphasis has been put on not making it a turn based tactical RPG and more of an action RPG.

Where it fails, is lack of educating a new player, as you point out. I picked a shield warrior as my first character by chance. Incidentally that is the easiest all round class, IMO. The difference between attack and damage, and the difference between defense and armour is critical to understanding *how* to build a succesful character.

Spoiler

Also, you need to define a few tactics depending on the type of battle you are in:
A defensive one so that you melee characters don't rush forward and get themselves killed while you're trying to snipe with your archer or mage.
An offensive tactic with focus on killing the strongest character.
An offensive tactic for large groups with focus on killing the weakest first.

Like you, I struggled with revenants and other high armour enemies. The secret is to use weapons that have high armour penetration (mauls and maces), use two handed weapons tanks that can sunder armour, which reduces the armour rating of the opponent, and do more damage per attack, reducing the advantage of armour. - And of course the über support spell: Telekinetic strike, which reduces armour rating for all enemies, putting your dual wielders and archers back in the game.

Cheers

 

[liolio]

May be I didn't dig enough in what the tactic slots bring on the table.
I overlook that aspect a bit (may be I did some unhappy modifications or not enough...).
I'm reading a guide on the topic right now. I didn't check but I hope 360 and PC versions act the same in this regard (ie 3 custom profiles).

 

[Zaphod]

On console Dex is still broken thus it affects archers/finesse meleers (warrior or rogue). It's a bit unacceptable, it's not a tiny thing like some spells or some talents, it's one of the main attribute in the game.

What's wrong with Dex? Daggers were fixed on all platforms (eventually), and the moaning about archery seems just to be a forum misunderstanding taken as gospel and propagated without basis in fact. Now, the basic damage bonus (from both Str and Dex) on bows might seem a bit anemic at first, but that seems to be a balancing issue and is just the same on both PC and consoles.

 

[Gubbi]

What's wrong with Dex? Daggers were fixed on all platforms (eventually), and the moaning about archery seems just to be a forum misunderstanding taken as gospel and propagated without basis in fact. Now, the basic damage bonus (from both Str and Dex) on bows might seem a bit anemic at first, but that seems to be a balancing issue and is just the same on both PC and consoles.

Dex is most definately not broken for archers on the 360. My archer build with 85 dex has done 790 in maximum damage with arrow of slaying. :smile:

Cheers

 

[liolio]

For me dex is broken. It was supposed to be patch in the patch 1.04 but the aforementioned patch has been rolled back.

I didn't some testing with my DW rogue yesterday and no matter my dex I do more damages with a longsword than with a dagger while dual wielding.
The word on the street is that dex bonus to damages doesn't apply accordingly to the description.
(0.3 extra damage for each point spent instead of 0.5 for dex weapons obviously) but it could even more fishy than than that.

Spoiler

Other than that I tried to kill the revenant that blocked me in the mage tower without succes, I managed to place most my team to avoid the "mass pull" but neither Zevran or my build manage to do enough damages. I'll see if I continue with this party or if I start a new party latter, if I'm not bored with the game that's it.

Other than that I tried to experiment more with tactics with my main build (two hander) but I couldn't really test as I forgot to save at some point and my party got wiped in seconds while travelling by two emissaries and some genlocks. Save often as everybody says... I didn't have time to understand what went wrong.
Anyway something still peaced me off? why do we only have one custom tactics on console vs 3 on PC? Switching between tactics could alleviate some pressure on the tactics slots but as it is on console it suck imo. For mages I find the system really not functional, my lvl10 wynne with the four "combat tactics" skills doesn't have enough slots to you all of her spells. For Morrigan... it's a joke.

Honestly it's not impossible that I switch to casual and enjoy the ride...
I think Bioware has a pretty solid D&D alternative but it needs maturing, mages are more alike to sorcerer, one should be able to "unlearn" one spell or two every level as it was possible in Nwn for example. (useful when it's obvious that guys that made the choice for companions auto levelling didn't much inspiration... to put it nicely and useful for newbies to the game).
Tactics slots could be perfect but I think you need more slots (and console should also have 3 custom tactics...).