marconelly!
Veteran
A reviewer told me yesterday that Jak 2 (PAL) supports prog-scan. So that's at least 100% confirmed.
Provocative comment by Id member about PS2 (and Gamecube)!
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The most impressive use I've seen of those cinematic effects are in Panzer Dragoon Orta at 60fps, too. The depth of field even works on layers of particles in contrast to each other, swirling in and out of the distance. This is best seen on the third level where Mobo is leading Orta through a dust storm over the spot where the end boss is resting, and the separate layers of particles gain sharpness and distinction as the camera focuses back and forth among Mobo, Orta, and the landscape ahead of them. And while the game also employs more standard forms of motion blur, it implements some kind of pixel retention for an exotic ghosting effect where movement looks like it's set against the canvas of an oil painting. This one is most prominently displayed in the game's more surreal settings, like in the heavy atmosphere of the swirling orange clouds or within the Sestren computer.
marconelly!
Veteran
Play gave it 9/10, GMR gave it 8/10, PSM 5/5. So far the average is 87%, although I'm really surprised that OPM gave it 3.5/5 (7/10) I think they gave first J&D a better score.
Ozy,
as many have noticed, i've been bragging about the RIDICULOUS fact that the only console to be able to do pro-scan here in europe is PS2...
the games that support pro-scan on PS2, also support it in the PAL versions, whereas the same cannot be said for Xbox and GC.
That means i'll never be able to play SC2 in 720p ("the way it's meant to be played") because someone decided to completely cut it from the SOFTware, while leaving it on PS2... go figure...
so, yeah, J&D2 supports pro-scan just like SC2, Tekken4, The Getaway, Primal and a few others. they are "few" titles, but still more than the xbox and GC here in europe. that means that in PAL territories, the only version of Soul Calibur2 to support pro-scan is, funny enough, the PS2 version...
all the major first party games will support progressive scan on PS2 so the list is rising fast.
as many have noticed, i've been bragging about the RIDICULOUS fact that the only console to be able to do pro-scan here in europe is PS2...
the games that support pro-scan on PS2, also support it in the PAL versions, whereas the same cannot be said for Xbox and GC.
That means i'll never be able to play SC2 in 720p ("the way it's meant to be played") because someone decided to completely cut it from the SOFTware, while leaving it on PS2... go figure...
so, yeah, J&D2 supports pro-scan just like SC2, Tekken4, The Getaway, Primal and a few others. they are "few" titles, but still more than the xbox and GC here in europe. that means that in PAL territories, the only version of Soul Calibur2 to support pro-scan is, funny enough, the PS2 version...
all the major first party games will support progressive scan on PS2 so the list is rising fast.
That's pretty odd, all things considered... Were Dreamcast games also like that, or did they retain their... uh... progression? 
cthellis42 said:That's pretty odd, all things considered... Were Dreamcast games also like that, or did they retain their... uh... progression?
Dreamcast still had VGA out, yes...
london-boy:
> because someone decided to completely cut it from the hardware, while
> leaving it on PS2
Not this nonsense again. All systems are capable of outputting a progressive signal. M$ and Nintendo merely decided to comply with the EU's (EBU?) wishes that progressive scan wouldn't be actively supported until the PAL progressive standard had been ratified. Annoying as it is you can hardly fault M$ and Nintendo for playing nice. Sony just does what it wants. Amusingly you'll have to buy a tv from another manufacturer to take advantage of the feature though. Even the brand new Sony models won't support prog scan.
> because someone decided to completely cut it from the hardware, while
> leaving it on PS2
Not this nonsense again. All systems are capable of outputting a progressive signal. M$ and Nintendo merely decided to comply with the EU's (EBU?) wishes that progressive scan wouldn't be actively supported until the PAL progressive standard had been ratified. Annoying as it is you can hardly fault M$ and Nintendo for playing nice. Sony just does what it wants. Amusingly you'll have to buy a tv from another manufacturer to take advantage of the feature though. Even the brand new Sony models won't support prog scan.
Nick Laslett
Regular
PS2 being Prog Scan enabled in Europe.
I wonder if this was part of the whole PS2 is a computer thing?
Because Sony DVD players have complied with the EU position on prog scan right up until about now + their TVs.
On the whole most Japanese electronics companies have been very slow to make their DVD players prog scan enabled.
Anyway, using the Blaze VGA hack most Renderware games can be made prog scan on the PS2 with no negative effects i.e. Pro Evo Soccer, Burnout 2, Airblade, Mortal Kombat, etc.
I wonder if this was part of the whole PS2 is a computer thing?
Because Sony DVD players have complied with the EU position on prog scan right up until about now + their TVs.
On the whole most Japanese electronics companies have been very slow to make their DVD players prog scan enabled.
Anyway, using the Blaze VGA hack most Renderware games can be made prog scan on the PS2 with no negative effects i.e. Pro Evo Soccer, Burnout 2, Airblade, Mortal Kombat, etc.
cybamerc said:
oh for god's sake, WILL U LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!
everytime i talk about this u come up and act all patronising. NEVER have i said it was MS or Nintendo's fault. the "someone" is just "someone", NOT MS or Nintendo...
all i'm saying, for the n^th time, is that i find this ridiculous. jesus man u're well annoying...
london-boy said:
:?
Man, you guys in Europe, with all your funny TV standard and unclear HDTV situation... that's got to suck as a gamer that's concerned with display quality. It IS a good thing that Sony stepped up to the plate. But those few games aren't really worth importing a TV over IMO
BTW, Soul Calibur in 720p isn't all that. Why the hell did they make it 4:3, when probably 99.9% of 720p-native displays are widescreen?!? I used to run it in 720p, but after the novelty wore off, I now spend my actual play-time in 480p widescreen.
Or is this prog scan in PS2 because of the Linux kit?
Is it so, that if the prog scan were not in european PS2s, you would not be able to connect the PS2+Linux kit to a monitor?
FYI cybamerc, the PS2 did not have prog scan enabled on DVD movies, I have the impression that the PAL progressive standard ratification conserns mainly DVD's (movies). I see it more like thinking forward by Sony, maybe they knew that prog scan would mecome more mainstream in EU during PS2 lifetime.
Still, one has been able to buy display equipment with prog scan from Sony. The plasmas and projectors have suppported it from at least day the PS2 was launched (likely much longer). Traditonal tube TV's are still rare, I think there is just one model from Panasonic, and another from Toshiba.
Is it so, that if the prog scan were not in european PS2s, you would not be able to connect the PS2+Linux kit to a monitor?
FYI cybamerc, the PS2 did not have prog scan enabled on DVD movies, I have the impression that the PAL progressive standard ratification conserns mainly DVD's (movies). I see it more like thinking forward by Sony, maybe they knew that prog scan would mecome more mainstream in EU during PS2 lifetime.
Still, one has been able to buy display equipment with prog scan from Sony. The plasmas and projectors have suppported it from at least day the PS2 was launched (likely much longer). Traditonal tube TV's are still rare, I think there is just one model from Panasonic, and another from Toshiba.
A bit OT here but.... I don't think HDTV was so much of a priority in those countries that used PAL simply because the image quality was so much better than the broadcast NTSC.Ozymandis said:
It isn't just a matter of the resolution of PAL being higher but, IIRC, the fact that the colour channels (I&Q) in NTSC are forced into a much smaller relative broadcast bandwidth. This is possibly one of the reasons NTSC got interpreted as "Never Twice the Same Colour".
PC-Engine said:
1: According to microsoft yes, but have we ever seen a game that came even close to the 125 million pps claimed, or even the revised "realistic" number, 31 million?
To me PS2 and xbox seems very much on par when it comes to polygons, maybe with a slight edge to PS2 (see J&D and R&C).
2: True, that is an advantage, but only a slight one. It isn’t like you can afford to sprinkle everything with high-res dot3 textures.
It can only be used sparingly, but even then at a cost.
3: xbox does have better looking mip mapping on textures but question is if that’s down to people better knowing the xbox SDK/tools, or a hardware deficiency on the PS2s side.
PS2 is perfectly capable of performing high quality mip mapping, we’ve seen that in a number of games, but far to many, even big games, doesn’t use it for some reason.
Regarding trilinear and anioso, trilinear is actually very often missing from even big titles on xbox, and anioso when it is used, doesn’t look that good. It looks as though they’ve just replaced the texture with one of its mip levels, at low angles.
PS2 has could do anioso using the GS’s clamp function to create rip maps, of course only sparingly.
4: xbox has its share of blurry textures to. Take a look Panzer Dragoon Orta, which by some is regarded as the best looking game on the machine:
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/panzerdragoonorta/screens.html?page=175
And this is not just a single bad pic, there are many examples of blur like this throughout the game.
xbox’s big advantage is, that for some reason, it is very easy to do detail texturing, that´s IMO what PS2 games are really lacking.
5: I dont know for sure (as I'm not a developer) but I don’t think texture compression is as big an advantage as it is often made to sound like (at least not S3TC/DXTC), and I don’t think it is actually used very often in real games. Multitexturing is a far more efficient and flexible (mip mapping, alpa etc.) "compression method".
6: 720P doesn’t come for free, just look at Soul Calibur where the game is "zoomed in" to make less polygon and textures visible to counteract the higher pixelfillrate requirement, in 720P mode.
7: Apart from ripping music to the drive I can’t see the great advantage of a HDD.
After 3 years with PS2 I’m only on my second memcard, without having made any compromises, and I’ll most likely be able to take the savegames with me, when PS3 comes.
8: All US PS2s have ethernet port a standard now, and probably soon jap and EU models too. Besides what’s the big deal? It costs about the same to get online with either xbox or PS2, and PS2 did it before xbox.
9: I don’t know if I’m unusual, but in all the time I’ve had a Gamecube, I’ve only once been able to get 4 enthusiastic, equally good players in front of the television.
But even then, playing on a 320x240 or less screen area is hardly ideal?
The only game that I can think of, that is still fun with more than two players on the same screen, is Bomberman.
10: Don't know what that is.
one of the few things that i really do appreciate of the Xbox is that pretty much every game has DD5.1... i think that is what DICE is all about...
PS2 has DTS but its hardly ever used...
PS2 has DTS but its hardly ever used...
Great post! I 100% agree with you. PS2 roxor me boxor with 3Dzz graphics greator me no seeyor beforeya! I believe they are almost equal in terms of graphics too.
PS2 has more polygons though. I say ERP 30mpps racer is nothing but a facade fake. GT4 looks so much more polygonish than RSC2(suckzor to your cars and environments!) and i say KZ has Halo1 + 2 beatened in terms of scale and well, polygonZZ. BM? Bleh! Its just a useless fad. I could name more games like Namco amazing MotoGPs and SC2, both of which makes Climax MotoGPs and DOA3 blush. Both showed that PS2 could handle anything you throw at it, you fwwols are just anti-SONY MS-paid fanvalopers.
What more, I cant imagine PS2 running an amazing detailed game like Splinter Cell. A PC/Xbox Unreal engined game? You gotta be kidding me! Nothing PS2 cant handle. Ninja Gaiden is alright, but Onimusha3 looks superbly comparable too. Itakagi is on crack i say.
I blame all those lazy multiplatform developers for not working more on PS2 versions. Sure Xbox is easier to do with DX but hey, get your ass dirty and make the games look equal. I am sure PS2 is more capbable than those t00ls bothered to work on.
There are more to speak off, but im blurry now. Maybe later when me thoughts are recollected.
Unbelieveable piece of silicon PS2 is, 3 years on and games are still looking as good as any today. Take that DC! Thats the way to do a console Sega.
If only Sony has a 3D PC cards division, imagine buying a Emotion Synthersizer 128-ZIZO and lasting 3 freaking years! Saya prayers ATI/Nvidia with your crappy 6mths cycle.
Though one sore point is Valve and ID reluctance to try their hands on the superb EE/GS. Silly fools. Why wait PS3/Xbox when you can do as good as on PS2. :? Lazy ass PC developers. :?
Technical engineering excellence. You cant beat that. 8)
PS2 has more polygons though. I say ERP 30mpps racer is nothing but a facade fake. GT4 looks so much more polygonish than RSC2(suckzor to your cars and environments!) and i say KZ has Halo1 + 2 beatened in terms of scale and well, polygonZZ. BM? Bleh! Its just a useless fad. I could name more games like Namco amazing MotoGPs and SC2, both of which makes Climax MotoGPs and DOA3 blush. Both showed that PS2 could handle anything you throw at it, you fwwols are just anti-SONY MS-paid fanvalopers.
What more, I cant imagine PS2 running an amazing detailed game like Splinter Cell. A PC/Xbox Unreal engined game? You gotta be kidding me! Nothing PS2 cant handle. Ninja Gaiden is alright, but Onimusha3 looks superbly comparable too. Itakagi is on crack i say.
I blame all those lazy multiplatform developers for not working more on PS2 versions. Sure Xbox is easier to do with DX but hey, get your ass dirty and make the games look equal. I am sure PS2 is more capbable than those t00ls bothered to work on.
There are more to speak off, but im blurry now. Maybe later when me thoughts are recollected.
Unbelieveable piece of silicon PS2 is, 3 years on and games are still looking as good as any today. Take that DC! Thats the way to do a console Sega.
If only Sony has a 3D PC cards division, imagine buying a Emotion Synthersizer 128-ZIZO and lasting 3 freaking years! Saya prayers ATI/Nvidia with your crappy 6mths cycle.
Though one sore point is Valve and ID reluctance to try their hands on the superb EE/GS. Silly fools. Why wait PS3/Xbox when you can do as good as on PS2. :? Lazy ass PC developers.
:? Technical engineering excellence. You cant beat that. 8)
Why don't the mods do something to that t
I can't believe why someone is allowed to constantly ruin the board, while some others are punished by slightest mistake.
Is he a b**tard child of a mod? or brother, cousin, lover...???
..or even a mod with alias????
at least his(hers) spelling is as bad.
I can't believe why someone is allowed to constantly ruin the board, while some others are punished by slightest mistake.
Is he a b**tard child of a mod? or brother, cousin, lover...???
..or even a mod with alias????
at least his(hers) spelling is as bad.
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