Pricing Discussions around AMD VEGA *over-flow*

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by pharma, Aug 17, 2017.

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  1. ToTTenTranz

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    @Ryan Smith commented on that when I made the exact same comment. Reason is there was no time. Between leaving only 4 days for a full review and giving reviewers on late notice the Vega 54 just 2 days before lifting the NDA, AMD simply shot themselves on the foot through terrible communication and marketing, effectively preventing reviewers from going in-depth through what is probably one of the most interesting aspects of Vega 10.

    I know I'll keep my card on power save the whole time. There's really no reason not to do so.
     
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  2. firstminion

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    If what bridgman said on phoronix is true for both Windows and Linux I wonder which new feature is working at all...
     
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  3. homerdog

    homerdog donator of the year
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    TBH if you have a decent PSU you can easily run it on Balanced or even Turbo (whatever they call it). Those 6/8pin PCIe connectors can handle way more than they are rated for on good power supplies. But I can understand saving 100+W for a small performance loss, especially if you live in a hot place.
     
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  4. eastmen

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    Here is the thing. Amd already has bundles set up. So amd just has to ship more of the bundles be it with the free games or with the monitor and other coupons. Do 80% bundles and 20% stand alone games and AMD wouldn't have to lie about anything. Or heck they can do 90% / 10% and not have to lie .

    Yea it will suck for consumers that want the base card but for AMD they will more than make up for the 10% or cards they sell with a rebate.

    Its why this rebate thing makes no sense to me
     
  5. bdmosky

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    As a consumer, longer legs is probably great, but for a company, not so much.
     
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  6. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    The "lie" is representing the cost of your product as $499 to reviewers so they would rate it based on that price when you know that that's not the actual price they will be selling at beyond the first few days of availability. Bundles don't fix that.
     
  7. eastmen

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    except we aren't past the first few days of availability so we have pitch forks out for no reason. The 1080 FEs were all over priced for months after release. The majority of 1070s are over priced compared to launch price
     
  8. Malo

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    The $499 cards were sold out within an hour or two on Newegg and Amazon. That's not because of massive amounts of sales, it's because of very little allocated stock to that SKU.
     
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  9. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    That's the thing. Vega isn't currently overpriced. It can't be sold for the "fantasy-land" price unless someone takes a loss because the cards cost too much to manufacture and distribute. And the pitch-forks are out for a very good reason as digi's reaction should have made abundantly clear.

    They need to make this right. And if it hurts? Good. It should be a cautionary tale for them and for any other company who may try to pull this shit in the future.
     
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  10. eastmen

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    Thats with everything. The Switch was sold out in an hour or two of launch.

    Make what right ? Does Nvidia need to make it right that the 1070s are above MSRP ? If AMD continues to keep Vega 64 at a $500 msrp what else is there to do ? The websites will sell it for what they can sell it for.

    With its mining performance , higher power draw and upcoming changes to eth , I believe prices wont stay high for very long. The 56 which is over all the better vega card with performance better than a 1070 but not quite a 1080 is going to have a celling which is the 64 price .

    I think all this is blown out of proportion.
     
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  11. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    For that MSRP to mean anything that SKU has to actually be manufactured. One of the "components" of that SKU is a cash subsidy from AMD. Without that component the product can't be produced and the MSRP is meaningless because it is for a product that doesn't exist.
     
  12. eastmen

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    So where is this data coming from ? Which component of the product can't be produced ? All I have seen is people talking about rebates but everything else is speculation.
     
  13. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/31071902
     
  14. eastmen

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    Right so no proof then.

    The websites saying this are all websites who will make money by charging more.

    I would say to him , retailers have the pricing at $600 now because people are buying them at those prices. Just like retailers are selling 1070s for $430+ dispite nvidia having an MSRP of $379

    So is nvidia unable to sell these cards at $379 and lied about the msrp to trick us all into thinking it was a better deal than it is ? Should they be raked over coals ? Or is it simply that they are in demand and people are willing to pay more for them? And if its because people are willing to pay more for them and thats okay why is it okay for nvidia but not amd ?
     
    #174 eastmen, Aug 20, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
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  15. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Yeah.... That must be it. :roll:
     
  16. xEx

    xEx
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    I think those websites have built a reputation and they won't lie in something that AMD could simply say " that's a lie and we have never done that".

    AMD that to put a minimum number of bundles SKU to have in stock rather than a maximum number of bundle-less SKU that could be sold. If not your MSRP if you specifically said retailers "you can only sell x number of that at those prices and the rets needs to be Z prices" AMD showed us a special discount VEGA for early adopters as a MSRP that that is very wrong.
     
  17. Malo

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    No comparable. There were lots of Vega available in bundle SKUs still.
     
  18. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I wish they'd make the bundle better for gamers. Include some more monitors with a lesser rebate, but at least for some of the more affordable freesync monitors, and mebbe go back to the old "offer a selection of games and you get to choose 3" or something with some other titles tossed in.

    I also think they'd be best off taking the hit on the next shipment and offering a whole lot less bundles and a lot more individual cards, and I'm not sure if the mining lust for this card is gone or not but as much as I know Raja loathes the idea I think they need to plant some miner bombs in the drivers for at least a while to discourage miners from sucking 'em all down.

    I get his position on it and I actually respect it, he genuinely doesn't want to ever intentionally cripple performance or limit the openness of their system. I on the other hand am not quite so inflexible and think that it would do them a WHOLE LOT of long term good with the community/gamers if they would just do it. I'd even recommend they be open about it and their reasons why, that'd give Raja some comfort with the whole openness thing and it could REALLY solve their problems of how to make this card available for gamers.

    That'd be my advice, but I don't think anyone anywhere really knows what is going to happen yet so I also highly agree with the holding off of the pitchforks and torches for a bit longer until we get a bit more clarification. I'm not sure I want them to just make a quick call on this, I'd prefer they really think about what they are trying to achieve in the gaming market place and how their actions in the immediate future are going to drastically affect the public's perception of them and the Vega launch versus the hit they'll take financially for it. I don't know the numbers and I suck with finances, but I do know gamers and the gaming community and there are a whole lot of rumors/half-truths/crazy shit going on and there are a lot of people who are viewing this as just how genuine AMD's commitment to gamers is.

    Their last few launches have been terribly problematic, and I personally blame most of it on miners. I don't get mining, it seems like the whole stock market bubble to me before everything crashed. I kept wondering how they were selling all these packaged junk bonds that were obviously not worth what they were sold, it felt like a weird get rich quick scheme or money for free thing...and I always remember the quote, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is", and figured it'd end badly.

    I was shocked when I found out I hadn't misunderstood it at all, there were just a lot of greedy slimeballs out there and a lot of people who didn't understand it and fell for the scam. Since then I've decided to sort of trust my instincts on weird stuff like that, and mining just seems like people are making monies with nothing really backing it but crunching numbers fast and I think it's gonna fall apart when people realize that...but I could very, VERY easily be wrong on that as I don't know very much about mining except that I HATE HOW IT MAKES IT SO HARD TO GET THE BLOODY VIDEO CARD I WANT TO GAME ON!!!!

    Sorry, it's late and I'm a bit medicated..but that's how I'm feeling on this one. They're doing great with CPUs, but no matter how good they are or what a great value they are AMD ain't gonna get back much graphics market share unless they can get the cards in to the hands of gamers. I think the only way to do that is to declare open war with miners on a driver level, because I just don't see any other way to do it. Price won't stop them, bundles won't stop them; they want the best and they'll get it.

    Just make it not the best for that, the problem will take care of itself. No one in the community will fault you, heck they'll be screaming your praises to the gods of gaming themselves for finally doing something substantial to face the problem.

    I know you don't want to AMD, but unless you can come up with a better idea to take the miners out of the equation the prices are going to be moot. The discounts on early cards are going to just be advantages to the miners, they always seem to find a way to get them first.

    It would also cut down on the incentive for retailers to mark up prices. If they have to actually put the cards on the shelves and have people buy them it might make them reconsider jacking up the price 50-80%. That would be nice too, wouldn't it?

    Please AMD, do the something good. You're on such a roll, the Ryzen kicks so much ass and everyone still loves it..but to be so close and blow it over miners?

    Please, don't. :(
     
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  19. Rootax

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    Fews posts (some are mine) tried to explained how mining was not a problem concerning Vega. I still think it doesn't. There is no upside mining on Vega, none. For 570 and 580, yes, it's a "problem". But Vega, or Fury/FuryX before that, no.
    Anyway, a lot of thing will get back in order at the end of this month or early septembre, with the eth situation.
     
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  20. CarstenS

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    IF AMD wanted to keep miners off RX Vega's shelves, they could have simply issued a statement that mining performance won't improve compared to Vega FE, which was a known quantity already and at a price point unattractive enough to most miners - except there would have been any truth to the 100 MH/s rumor that some AIB fed Gibbo.
     
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