Pricing Discussions around AMD VEGA *over-flow*

[3dilettante]

Basically that according to his source, whoever that may be, Gibbo is wrong and there was no rebate.

I think that statement is dancing around saying what Gibbo said happened to him and OCUK collectively was not true. The rest of that was about not knowing why Gibbo would tell a statement that was not true.

 

[xEx]

As I understood It the rebate where for just some retailers and not all of them so both can be speaking the true. Of course its hard to know with the DNAs and everyone speaking very little about it.

 

[Esrever]

Who is Gibbo anyways and why does everyone believe him when he says Vega is 100MH/s as well as all of this? Seems like nobody has supplied any proof and yet people just take the words as gospel.

 

[3dilettante]

I believe Gibbo is the handle for Overclockers UK's purchasing manager, which is why people would think he would be in the position to have knowledge on the pricing matter, if not personal involvement.

 

[Esrever]

That makes sense but you'd think someone in his position would work out something between themselves and AMD instead basically publicly denouncing one of your business partners.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Another retailer (Norwegian) confirmed AMD's rebate, so Gibbo's story is likely true ...

Gibson’s claims are corroborated by an additional source too, as Norwegian tech retailer, komplett.no, also spoke out, telling the site tek.no that the cheaper launch price for RX Vega64 was limited to just 275 cards to allow it to appear more favourable at launch. Here is the full quote translated:

“Komplett.no today confirms to Tek.no that the price of just over 5,000 kroner was limited to a limited edition of 275 graphics cards, as the company – as one of AMD’s “selected” online stores – was allowed to sell at a favourable price at launch. The RX Vega 64 version we had for sale was in a limited edition of this price and will unfortunately not be put up for sale again. When these were sold out, we had to remove this product from our pages”.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...-gibson-clears-up-rx-vega64-pricing-disaster/

Edit: Spelling. And the Norwegian site updated their RX Vega review to take account of the MSRP situation.

 

[Rasterizer]

Another retailer (Norwegian) confirmed AMD's rebate, so Gibbo's story is likely true ...

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...-gibson-clears-up-rx-vega64-pricing-disaster/

Edit: Spelling. And the Norwegian site updated their RX Vega review to take account of the MSRP situation.

I don't know how to reconcile that claim with AMD's Gerald Youngblood going on the record today and clarifying that AMD's SEP for the stand alone cards has not changed nor are they planing to change it:

I spoke to AMD’s Gerald Youngblood on the showfloor of Gamescom today about the struggles with both stock and pricing of Radeon graphics cards, and specifically about whether we were ever going to see Vega at its original launch price. So, how much does Vega really cost?

“Our SEPs, and the price tag that we announced,” Youngblood says, “is our full intention of where we would suggest the product be priced. Not just for launch, but ongoing.”

What happened, though, was we launched the product and the demand was really huge. Now we’re focused on replenishing so that there is plenty of stock so we can encourage our partners to hit the SEPs that we announced.”

It’s primarily this filling of retailers inventory which AMD sees as key to getting the prices of Vega down to their original pre-launch levels.

 

[troyan]

As long as AMD doesnt ship any "standalone" cards is doesnt matter what they say. Only the "bundle"-version is available. It has been the only product since the launch.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Those are all good points. AMD has Nvidia right where they want them, having lulled them into sense of security with seemingly an epically muddled launch. Then, when Nvidia least expects it, they will spring their trap. I mean, it would be pretty idiotic to show your product in a good light during the launch window, that's exactly what they expect you to do. You make you HUUUUUGE announcements LONG AFTER the reveiws have been published. And yes, Holocube is a game changer. Sure, to the untrained eye it may look like a marketing gimmick that neither ships with the card nor has any impact on it's perfromance, but it's fairly clear it will bring on huge improvements to Vega. How, you may ask? Infinity Fabric, of course. Having evolved beyond a mere data interconnect infrastructure, the technology has transcended our limited understanding of electromagnetic and is now fully capable of connecting any implement to the GPU while multiplying it's power 10-fold. To fully grasp this unprecedented capability, just glance around the room. See that fridge, with it's 3 hp compressor? By the power of Greysk... Infinity fabric it links straight into Vega rendering pipeline, at 10x power. Can you imagine what kind of polygon throughput you can attain with 30 horsepower thrown in? And that's just from one generic appliance; Holocube can render reality in less then 12 parsecs (less than 1.2 parsecs after 10x Infinity Fabric Boost).

That doesn't even get into what AMD is brewing, which, spoiler alert, is an authentic Trappist ale (firm, earthy head, nutty nose, honey and nutmeg tone, smooth finish with a hint of allspice and ripe plum, score: 99), which is the only way to refresh yourself, having witnessing reality-warping graphics performance of Vega.

THAT is how you do an epic burn! I salute you, I feel roasted.

As I understood It the rebate where for just some retailers and not all of them so both can be speaking the true. Of course its hard to know with the DNAs and everyone speaking very little about it.

That's how I understood it too.

I'm coming late to the thread today, sorry..haven't even read AMD's official statement. Gonna go do that and think a spell, either way I have a feeling this will all be decided on or before the 26th.

 

[digitalwanderer]

“Our SEPs, and the price tag that we announced,” Youngblood says, “is our full intention of where we would suggest the product be priced. Not just for launch, but ongoing.”

First emphasized bit has enough room to drive a truck through, the second is defending themselves and blaming the retailers for any price increases. I see nothing which invalidates the original story.

 

[Rasterizer]

First emphasized bit has enough room to drive a truck through, the second is defending themselves and blaming the retailers for any price increases. I see nothing which invalidates the original story.

I'm fairly certain AMD have to use that language because SEP and MSRP are the manufacturers suggested retail or etail price, and they are legally barred from trying to force retailers or etailers to meet it. As far as I understand the statement it says that AMD has not increased their SEP on any of the SKUs, but that the only way they can influence retailers willingness to actually sell at SEP going forwards is by increasing supplies of all SKUs to the market. As far as I can ascertain, the only thing that has changed is that AMD stopped bribing etailers to sell at MSRP, which they appear to have done on launch day.

 

[eastmen]

I'm fairly certain AMD have to use that language because SEP and MSRP are the manufacturers suggested retail or etail price, and they are legally barred from trying to force retailers or etailers to meet it. As far as I understand the statement it says that AMD has not increased their SEP on any of the SKUs, but that the only way they can influence retailers willingness to actually sell at SEP going forwards is by increasing supplies of all SKUs to the market. As far as I can ascertain, the only thing that has changed is that AMD stopped bribing etailers to sell at MSRP, which they appear to have done on launch day.

Exactly .

I also believe that if there were rebates they were used to make sure the e-tailer priced the cards at the proper prices instead of jacking the price up while having the cards in stock

 

[Geeforcer]

I'm fairly certain AMD have to use that language because SEP and MSRP are the manufacturers suggested retail or etail price, and they are legally barred from trying to force retailers or etailers to meet it. As far as I understand the statement it says that AMD has not increased their SEP on any of the SKUs, but that the only way they can influence retailers willingness to actually sell at SEP going forwards is by increasing supplies of all SKUs to the market. As far as I can ascertain, the only thing that has changed is that AMD stopped bribing etailers to sell at MSRP, which they appear to have done on launch day.

Could SOMEBODY please explain to me where in the world "legally barred from enforcing MSRP" comes from? Is that the case in Europe? Because in US it is most assuredly not:

"If a manufacturer, on its own, adopts a policy regarding a desired level of prices, the law allows the manufacturer to deal only with retailers who agree to that policy. A manufacturer also may stop dealing with a retailer that does not follow its resale price policy. That is, a manufacturer can implement a dealer policy on a "take it or leave it" basis.

Limitations on how or where a dealer may sell a product (that is, customer or territory restrictions) are generally legal — if they are imposed by a manufacturer acting on its own. These agreements may result in better sales efforts and service in the dealer's assigned area, and, as a result, more competition with other brands."

So please, can someone site the relevant statutes that gave rise to the "MSRP enforcement is illegal" line of argument?

 

[eastmen]

Could SOMEBODY please explain to me where in the world "legally barred from enforcing MSRP" comes from? Is that the case in Europe? Because in US it is most assuredly not:

"If a manufacturer, on its own, adopts a policy regarding a desired level of prices, the law allows the manufacturer to deal only with retailers who agree to that policy. A manufacturer also may stop dealing with a retailer that does not follow its resale price policy. That is, a manufacturer can implement a dealer policy on a "take it or leave it" basis.

Limitations on how or where a dealer may sell a product (that is, customer or territory restrictions) are generally legal — if they are imposed by a manufacturer acting on its own. These agreements may result in better sales efforts and service in the dealer's assigned area, and, as a result, more competition with other brands."

So please, can someone site the relevant statutes that gave rise to the "MSRP enforcement is illegal" line of argument?

I don't know if its illegal however if amd pulled cards from sites that raised pricing those companies might not carry any amd stock. If they are forced to sell at MSRP while they can get more money from Nvidia product they will push that nvidia product and not AMD product.

I'm not sure what you want AMD to do in this situation. These retailers want to make money they will sell the hot items above MSRP if there is demand. They are doing it now with Nvidia product , why would they not with AMD ?

 

[w0lfram]

Those are all good points. AMD has Nvidia right where they want them, having lulled them into sense of security with seemingly an epically muddled launch. Then, when Nvidia least expects it, they will spring their trap. I mean, it would be pretty idiotic to show your product in a good light during the launch window, that's exactly what they expect you to do. You make you HUUUUUGE announcements LONG AFTER the reveiws have been published. And yes, Holocube is a game changer. Sure, to the untrained eye it may look like a marketing gimmick that neither ships with the card nor has any impact on it's perfromance, but it's fairly clear it will bring on huge improvements to Vega. How, you may ask? Infinity Fabric, of course. Having evolved beyond a mere data interconnect infrastructure, the technology has transcended our limited understanding of electromagnetic and is now fully capable of connecting any implement to the GPU while multiplying it's power 10-fold. To fully grasp this unprecedented capability, just glance around the room. See that fridge, with it's 3 hp compressor? By the power of Greysk... Infinity fabric it links straight into Vega rendering pipeline, at 10x power. Can you imagine what kind of polygon throughput you can attain with 30 horsepower thrown in? And that's just from one generic appliance; Holocube can render reality in less then 12 parsecs (less than 1.2 parsecs after 10x Infinity Fabric Boost).

That doesn't even get into what AMD is brewing, which, spoiler alert, is an authentic Trappist ale (firm, earthy head, nutty nose, honey and nutmeg tone, smooth finish with a hint of allspice and ripe plum, score: 99), which is the only way to refresh yourself, having witnessing reality-warping graphics performance of Vega.

Sarcasm doesn't work here. And you sound like a whinny little kid!
Learn plz. <-- look at the intelligent people talk.


btw for full discloser:
I have bought bottles of wine & opened them years later. At least with RX Vega, People (& you) will be able to taste it's refinement continuously over the next 3+ years. (Which I hope to do so, matched to my (soon to be) Acer 38" 3840 x 1600 freesync2.)

Kinda like a good chimay

 

[silent_guy]

Sarcasm doesn't work here. And you sound like a whinny little kid!

I don't think you're the best person to be the judge on that. ;-)

 

[roybotnik]

I'm a little confused about the significance of the pricing debacle. If a review says the card is decent for $499, but someone goes to buy it and sees that it's $599 or even worse $699..they are going to think twice about buying it and check out what Nvidia is offering in the price range they're considering. Nobody's going to buy the card and suddenly be surprised that they accidentally spent $100+ more than they meant to.

If the pricing sucks then AMD won't sell cards (at least not to people who are not married to a certain brand). Prices are always all over the place these days so most folks are going to compare some graphs and then see what they can get for their money.

Is there some legitimate concern that people would hold this pricing anomaly against reviewers (who have a difficult time recommending Vega in the first place)? It seems like a stretch considering that these aren't cheap cards that uneducated consumers would buy.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-rx-vega-launch-price-reduction

I spoke to AMD’s Gerald Youngblood on the showfloor of Gamescom today about the struggles with both stock and pricing of Radeon graphics cards, and specifically about whether we were ever going to see Vega at its original launch price. So, how much does Vega really cost?
“Our SEPs, and the price tag that we announced,” Youngblood says, “is our full intention of where we would suggest the product be priced. Not just for launch, but ongoing.”
What happened, though, was we launched the product and the demand was really huge. Now we’re focused on replenishing so that there is plenty of stock so we can encourage our partners to hit the SEPs that we announced.”
It’s primarily this filling of retailers inventory which AMD sees as key to getting the prices of Vega down to their original pre-launch levels.
“First of all we just need to drive as much stock as we can,” Youngblood says, “because inventory is really important in everybody being able to hit those prices. Then it’s just working with our partners to enable it, but we don’t set the price of their product. But we will drive, and do everything that we can, to get those prices to where we suggested when we launched them earlier.”

I think that statement is dancing around saying what Gibbo said happened to him and OCUK collectively was not true. The rest of that was about not knowing why Gibbo would tell a statement that was not true.

My interpretation here is that very few stores received the non-pack cards (hence the great confusion about pricing), and the ones who received might have gotten a rebate, but if it did it came from a distributor and not AMD.
The greatest wrongdoing here IMO is all these stores selling the Black and Aqua packs without any discounts or even mention to be selling a pack. I don't know who's responsible for this (probably a mix between AMD not setting the rules properly and retailers taking advantage of it) but that's what's making many people believe the Vega 64 costs $600 and bundles 2 games, when that was never AMD's intention.

 

[w0lfram]

I don't think you're the best person to be the judge on that. ;-)

Why?
I am not allowed? Or I am not allowed to express my years of experience, and the LOGIC used in choosing Vega for all my future builds? It's better to try and attack my argument, not my character. (that is sign of weakness and old playschool tactic of trying to protect the ego).

Again, I had asked what GPU would you grab off the table (free of charge) to play games on for the next 3+ years, would you pick up the gtx1070, or the v64 ?


I explained myself & reasoning, perhaps you need to explain yourself.. ?

 

[silent_guy]

Why?
I am not allowed? Or I am not allowed to express my years of experience, and the LOGIC used in choosing Vega for all my future builds?

One who is the subject of sarcasm is not the most objective person to judge its merits. That is all. (Well, that and the fact that your whole pamphlet was the opposite of LOGIC.)