Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Svensk Viking]

Is it likely that AMD's CPUs on the PC will benefit by the consoles having AMD CPUs?

Sry if this has been asked before(and is too elementary), easy to miss things in this big thread

 

[Davros]

possible when designing the console cpu they may discover/invent something relevant, (more likely though is that the console cpu will be very similar to their pc cpu's because of time and price) also earning some money would be good for them, maybe they can hire some new cpu genius's. They need something because intel are wiping the floor with them at the moment.

 

[Svensk Viking]

possible when designing the console cpu they may discover/invent something relevant, (more likely though is that the console cpu will be very similar to their pc cpu's because of time and price) also earning some money would be good for them, maybe they can hire some new cpu genius's. They need something because intel are wiping the floor with them at the moment.

I was thinking if the console CPUs have similarities to any of the PC CPUs, if optimizations then can carry over

 

[pjbliverpool]

I was thinking if the console CPUs have similarities to any of the PC CPUs, if optimizations then can carry over

I'd have thought so. They'll be using the same SIMD instructions (presumably) so that's one area that should map neatly back to the PC. Of course most if not all of the optimiation should be applicable to Intel CPU's as well.

 

[3D_world]

My sources tell me...

I see a lot of pie-in-the-sky hoping and speculation but are there any actual facts that someone has gathered from any industry sources?

I can't disclose where I get my data, but my sources tell me this about Playstation 4:

$400 price launch point
A very high main memory bandwidth
A flexible, strong GPU - not anywhere near the strongest on the market
An Intel-based CPU
Power 6/7 cores
An on-board GPU texture/z-buffer cache

Think what you want, but I'm inclined to believe my sources.

 

[MrFox]

I can't disclose where I get my data, but my sources tell me this about Playstation 4

You must be a very important person then, I'm inclined to believe you based on your mesmerizing confidence.
It's important to show confidence and a bit of condescension when pulling things out of your ass. I'm using that trick often myself, it's very potent.

 

[Docwiz]

I see a lot of pie-in-the-sky hoping and speculation but are there any actual facts that someone has gathered from any industry sources?

I can't disclose where I get my data, but my sources tell me this about Playstation 4:

$400 price launch point
A very high main memory bandwidth
A flexible, strong GPU - not anywhere near the strongest on the market
An Intel-based CPU
Power 6/7 cores
An on-board GPU texture/z-buffer cache

Think what you want, but I'm inclined to believe my sources.

That is great an all, but very little actually measures up with what the dev sources have said about the Alpha Development Kits.

The Article Date is: 11/01/2012 (Original Date)
Source: http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_details_playstation_4/
(I trust this source more than yours. Even though it's an Alpha dev kit, I still trust this source more than yours)

Multiple sources have confirmed to VG247 today that a new version of the Orbis kit is now shipping to developers, and that it’s housed in a normal PC case.

There are to be four versions of the dev kit, we were told. A previous version was essentially just a graphics card. The version shipping now is a “modified PC,” and the third version, appearing in January, will be close to final spec. A final version will be delivered to developers “next summer”.

Some US developers attended a “disclosure meeting” at Sony’s offices this week, with a further meeting to take place in the coming weeks. The purpose of the meeting is for Sony to tell studios what the machine is designed to do, to detail hardware and to show a set of presentations.

Our source told us that Sony is only calling the machine Orbis, and is not using the words “PlayStation 4″ in these meetings at all.

Orbis, we were told today, is based on the AMD’s A10 APU series. An APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) is a combined CPU and GPU.

PS4′s APU was described today as a “derivative” of existing A10 hardware. The hardware is “based on A10 system and base platform”.

The “ultimate goal” for the hardware, we were told, is for it to be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D with “no problem,” to create a machine that’s powerful enough for “today and tomorrow’s market”.

The dev kits have “either 8Gb or 16Gb of RAM. Deduce from that what you will.”

The hardware is not being made in Japan, it was said.

When asked if PS4 will have an optical drive, specifically Blu-ray, our source responded: “Of course it has.” We’ve been told the hard drive will be 256Gb “as standard,” but it’s not clear if it’ll be a normal HDD or a solid state drive.

We were told that Sony’s aim with Orbis is to avoid problems involved in launching PS3 by creating something “very affordable” but that “isn’t a slouch”.

The machine has WiFi and Ethernet connectivity and HDMI out. Our source said the was “no difference” between PlayStation 3 and Orbis input/output.

The UI, however, has been revamped. It was said today that players will now be able to press the PS button mid-game and travel “anywhere” on the system. An example given was buying DLC from the PS Store mid-game then seamlessly returning to play.

“They’re trying to make it as fluid as possible,” our source said.

We were also told that the machine will be designed to accept system and product updates in the background, and that it’ll “always be in standby mode”. When you set the console up, we were told, you’ll be asked if you want to allow background downloads. You can, of course, disallow them.

No details have been given on the pad as yet. Confirmation is expected this month.

Orbis is expected to be announced at an event “just before E3″ next year.

 

[3D_world]

You must be a very important person then, I'm inclined to believe you based on your mesmerizing confidence.
It's important to show confidence and a bit of condescension when pulling things out of your ass. I'm using that trick often myself, it's very potent.

I disagree with everything you said there. None of it is true.

That is great an all, but very little actually measures up with what the dev sources have said about the Alpha Development Kits.

The Article Date is: 11/02/2012
Source: http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_details_playstation_4/
(I trust this source more than yours. Even though it's an Alpha dev kit, I still trust this source more than yours)

Okay you think it will have an AMD from your sources. That's possible too. My source does not disagree very strong with your source. Both are x86 processors that are similar.

My sources for the Playstation 4 tell me it will have those specifications. I will defend the design choices.

Z-buffer/Texture cache
Highly repetitive data which can be greatly accelerated with a cache. 32 sample texture filtering is free, z-buffer bandwidth is free. With 1920x1080 resolution - the free z-buffer helps greatly! The Gamecube cost 1/4 the price of the Xbox but was nearly as good due to this revolutionary feature - all consoles should have it.

100 GB/s main memory
Obviously the CPU is very powerful. You can have all the characters with custom animation, and the scene packed with custom lighting, like with Gamecube's Resident Evil (custom animation for some bosses) and Luigi's Mansion (custom lighting).

Intel CPU
Intel's general-purpose CPUs are the best. Having a weak CPU is an incredibly limiting factor which Xbox360 had. 2-3 times more powerful then Xbox - very bad.

Power-based CPUs
To assist the Intel in graphics applications.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Lots of things can be useful, that doesn't mean they are going to fit in your $400 budget.

 

[Docwiz]

I disagree with everything you said there. None of it is true.



Okay you think it will have an AMD from your sources. That's possible too. My source does not disagree very strong with your source. Both are x86 processors that are similar.

My sources for the Playstation 4 tell me it will have those specifications. I will defend the design choices.

Z-buffer/Texture cache
Highly repetitive data which can be greatly accelerated with a cache. 32 sample texture filtering is free, z-buffer bandwidth is free. With 1920x1080 resolution - the free z-buffer helps greatly! The Gamecube cost 1/4 the price of the Xbox but was nearly as good due to this revolutionary feature - all consoles should have it.

100 GB/s main memory
Obviously the CPU is very powerful. You can have all the characters with custom animation, and the scene packed with custom lighting, like with Gamecube's Resident Evil (custom animation for some bosses) and Luigi's Mansion (custom lighting).

Intel CPU
Intel's general-purpose CPUs are the best. Having a weak CPU is an incredibly limiting factor which Xbox360 had. 2-3 times more powerful then Xbox - very bad.

Power-based CPUs
To assist the Intel in graphics applications.

The Article says this....
"We were told that Sony’s aim with Orbis is to avoid problems involved in launching PS3 by creating something “very affordable” but that “isn’t a slouch”.

$400 isn't very affordable and the items in your list would be very expensive. Sony is losing money and they won't be able to get many loans with their "Junk Bond" status. So, you tell me. How does this make sense?

Answer: It doesn't

 

[MrFox]

I disagree with everything you said there. None of it is true.

How do you know what I said doesn't apply to your source?
And I agree with the 400 price point, but my reason is personal.

 

[arijoytunir]

I see a lot of pie-in-the-sky hoping and speculation but are there any actual facts that someone has gathered from any industry sources?

I can't disclose where I get my data, but my sources tell me this about Playstation 4:

$400 price launch point
A very high main memory bandwidth
A flexible, strong GPU - not anywhere near the strongest on the market
An Intel-based CPU
Power 6/7 cores
An on-board GPU texture/z-buffer cache

Think what you want, but I'm inclined to believe my sources.

The ram part is possible but going for intel is not going to happen as it ended with larabee .

 

[bkilian]

Why would anyone put both an intel based cpu and a Power 6/7 based CPU in a console? And which one? 6 or 7? They're hugely different designs. The Power 6 is a 800 million transistor in-order CPU designed for ridiculously high frequencies and is a very inefficient chip performance/watt wise. It would be practically impossible to process reduce due to power leakage at high frequencies in smaller process nodes. The Power 7 chip is a 1.2billion transistor out of order CPU designed for better efficiencies, lower frequencies, and hugely parallel workloads. Both of them are server chips and wouldn't fit very well in a console.

Naah, even though I know nothing about the PS4, I call crap on your sources just from the feasibility of those specs.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah. If you're gonna have assistive cores, why wouldn't you just put in a bunch of SPEs anyway? They're tiny, would potentially allow for backwards compatibility, and we know they exel at assisting the GPU. Any of the "big iron" IBM cores would be a terrible, costly choice by comparison.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Intel CPU
Intel's general-purpose CPUs are the best. Having a weak CPU is an incredibly limiting factor which Xbox360 had. 2-3 times more powerful then Xbox - very bad.

Power-based CPUs
To assist the Intel in graphics applications.

Get a new source. That's clearly nonsense. There will not be an x86 CPU (especially not an Intel x86) and a Power CPU in the same box. That's mental; spend the silicon budget on a larger x86. Maybe, perhaps, at a push, there'll be some PPC type CPU to aid in...something, like BC, maybe. Probability will be measured in fractions of a percent.

Suffice to say, no-one with a modicum of understanding of these parts is going to take your source seriously, and you'd be wise to follow suit. Or, come back when Orbis launches and admit you were ridiculously wrong.

 

[RudeCurve]

I call crap on your sources just from the feasibility of those specs.

+1..

 

[fehu]

Why anyone is explaining the reason completely made-up uneducated speculations are of no meaning?

 

[Blazkowicz]

There was that block diagram mock up from long ago which showed a "ARM or x86" APU and a PowerPC on the side, but that one was a straight Xenon.
Still unlikely, I wonder if this Xenon uses more power than Jaguar for less performance, making it undesirable for I/O and side tasks - you'd rather use Jaguar cores and DSPs.

I'd wager BC can even hurt the new console. Even without it we might see dual releases of some AAA games, on both x360 and x720. With BC the consoles would more clearly compete against each other, and indie devs would only target the 360. This could be a situation similar to the Amiga 500 vs Amiga 1200, where few games targetted the new system despite them being 7 years apart - and those that did had two versions, one for the 80's Amiga the other for the 90's Amiga.
(well, 5 years apart but the 500 is almost a repackaged Amiga 1000)

 

[bkilian]

There was that block diagram mock up from long ago which showed a "ARM or x86" APU and a PowerPC on the side, but that one was a straight Xenon.
Still unlikely, I wonder if this Xenon uses more power than Jaguar for less performance, making it undesirable for I/O and side tasks - you'd rather use Jaguar cores and DSPs.

I'd wager BC can even hurt the new console. Even without it we might see dual releases of some AAA games, on both x360 and x720. With BC the consoles would more clearly compete against each other, and indie devs would only target the 360. This could be a situation similar to the Amiga 500 vs Amiga 1200, where few games targetted the new system despite them being 7 years apart - and those that did had two versions, one for the 80's Amiga the other for the 90's Amiga.
(well, 5 years apart but the 500 is almost a repackaged Amiga 1000)

Except the xenon (and the PS3) is a POWER 4 design, and he was talking about power 6 or 7. Neither of those could be used for back compat, their performance profile is just too different. Microsoft would not spend a ton of transistor budget on back compat. I could see adding targeted features that would make back compat easier, but not embedding a full-fledged CPU. Sony might, they've already done it before, but they appear to have backed off that solution, so I'd be surprised to see it happen this time.

 

[pjbliverpool]

The ram part is possible but going for intel is not going to happen as it ended with larabee .

What ended with Larabee? His (clearly inaccurate) post only stated an Intel based CPU. I'm not sure what the failure of Larabee has to do with the feasibility of that.

The unlikelyness of it stems from the price Intel would likely charge for the use of it's CPU's (which technically would alomost certainly be the best possible solution for a new console).