Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

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Ruskie said:
I think there should be some kind of standard. This gen majority of games where around 720p, when next gen starts and you have resolutions going from 720p, to 1440p to full 1080p differences will be very pronounced even in the eyes of those that in other cases wouldn't see difference.
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I disagree. There should be no kind of requirement or standard. Every game will have a different set of requirements for performance and the developers should be given complete freedom to how they want to develop their game. A 720p scene with great filtering can look better than a 1080p scene with iffy filtering.

Nesh said:
When it comes to most devs, neither console is being pushed anyways. But really the big devs really do try to push the platforms with their big games. They ve got more budget and time, and we have an indication of what either platform can do when pushed by the few that have the money, talent and time to do it
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IIRC that original comment from Corrine was mostly directed to how some developers code for the CPU back then. I don't think that opinion really applies now. I also don't think it's accurate to say most devs aren't pushing either console. IMO both are being pushed very hard by both first and third party studios.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
No. You can't look at screenshots and know the quality of the tools (unless both are rubbish). What you see on screen is a measure of effort and investment and all sorts of other factors.
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I don't know, In Bunige's case halo 3 had a lot going for it with those cgi commercials, and still....it ended up being handed over to an other company because of being exhausted with fixing the franchise.

besides the usage of screenshots for halo in particular and look at the vidocs of the two, a lot has changed between studios; it's now bigger, improved sets of programs to real life motion capturing used. (in which case halo 3 had none.)

despite being the right hand of MS i'm surprised bungie was not given this before when the console was first out.

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Anyways if i'm mistaken then i'm mistaken, regardless of easy programming, it's about making a worthy launch. which is why of the two it was easy for sony to venture into portable gaming. like i said a while back, ms doesn't have enough projects or developers like sony does to share with 3 devices or even 2.....not yet anyways.

In their particular case Microsoft started out making great changes, but had a lot of IPs slowly die on them. no kameo 2, perfect dark 3, banjo nb 2 or any thing more from mistwalker....and these are the companies they helped put together. which is probably why they got cold feet this year and decided to stick with existing hardware till something pops up for them in the cards.

my two cents says, that realistically a tie this time around on the next launch is possible, but if the tech is based on stuff in the market now or soon will be and fresh IPs are being worked on you can expect an early release date.
 
LXFBN said:
If what DAE says is true then Durango's GPU should be pretty powerful.
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Well we know that the dev kits have a HD6870 or a HD6950.

The HD6870 is capable of running BF3 at 1080p on Ultra at around 30fps. So with the efficiencies of fixed hardware it should be able to run those settings at around 60 fps.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-radeon-6870-review

Indeed, the recent Battlefield 4 leak indicates that DICE are targeting 60fps (and 64 players) for consoles.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=498308
 
COPS N RAPPERS said:
I don't know, In Bunige's case halo 3 had a lot going for it with those cgi commercials, and still....it ended up being handed over to an other company because of being exhausted with fixing the franchise.

besides the usage of screenshots for halo in particular and look at the vidocs of the two, a lot has changed between studios; it's now bigger, improved sets of programs to real life motion capturing used. (in which case halo 3 had none.)

despite being the right hand of MS i'm surprised bungie was not given this before when the console was first out.
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You're conflating so many different things here.
When people talk about tools as in those provided by the platform vendors, it's compilers, linkers, IDE's, debuggers and profiling tools.
The average game these days has more lines of tool code than it does of game code, those tools are all down to the developer (or engine provider if you're buying one).

3rd parties build tools and the majority of them are shared between platforms.

Halo 4 wasn't done by bungie because they didn't want to do it,no one likes working on iterations of the same thing over and over, nothing to do with the tools, the original contract they signed with MS was spectacularly good (for them) gave them a clause that allowed the original owners to buy the company back from MS.

The Fact Halo 4 is better than Halo 3 (if it is, I haven't seen it) has more to do with the difference in developers and the tradeoffs they chose to make, and nothing to do with the platform tools.

As I mentioned earlier, MS are likely in the same position with 3rd parties as Sony, they don't need a lot of 1st party software at launch, they will likely pay some 3rd parties for exclusives much as they paid Epic to do Gears of War.

I do agree that MS doesn't treat 1st party development the same way Sony does, they just perceive different value there. MS honestly doesn't have the right corporate culture to buy developers and let them continue to be successful, so buying product is a better plan, much like EA, they try and change the corporate culture of the purchased company and that's a really good way to kill any creative enterprise.
 
LXFBN said:
If what DAE says is true then Durango's GPU should be pretty powerful.
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thats basically what i get out of it. at least a decent gpu.

i am guessing whatever halfass box was in the leaked doc that marketing envisioned, microsoft engineers got ahold of it and added some grunt.
 
ERP said:
You're conflating so many different things here.
When people talk about tools as in those provided by the platform vendors, it's compilers, linkers, IDE's, debuggers and profiling tools

The average game these days has more lines of tool code than it does of game code, those tools are all down to the developer (or engine provider if you're buying one).

3rd parties build tools and the majority of them are shared between platforms.
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Oh ok, got it. I know about 3rd parties and middleware, and companies buying licenses to use it. I just thought in sony's circumstances (way before all this) their issues with developers was to the extent of just the ps3's architecture.....but I i'm no developer, I work with graphics and a few programs, that's it.


ERP said:
The Fact Halo 4 is better than Halo 3 (if it is, I haven't seen it) has more to do with the difference in developers and the tradeoffs they chose to make, and nothing to do with the platform tools.
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Right, I'm not certain on what the changes were but The new team no doubt helped. Though some of it still goes to Bungie when they incorporated a few changes with halo reach.

ERP said:
As I mentioned earlier, MS are likely in the same position with 3rd parties as Sony, they don't need a lot of 1st party software at launch, they will likely pay some 3rd parties for exclusives much as they paid Epic to do Gears of War.

I do agree that MS doesn't treat 1st party development the same way Sony does, they just perceive different value there. MS honestly doesn't have the right corporate culture to buy developers and let them continue to be successful, so buying product is a better plan, much like EA, they try and change the corporate culture of the purchased company and that's a really good way to kill any creative enterprise.
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Putting new hardware aside, the number one goal Microsoft should know by now is seeking creative talent; And they've been doing that pretty well with XNA. however it's not in a sense where it's publicized like major IPs are. what they need to do is focus on of course, are finding and assembling teams.

they got XNA which is partly correct, but they're not hiring them or commissioning them to form a first party studio.......which is something they should totally consider. they should boost revenues towards that market and there they will get new IPs.
 
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What power consumption is being predicted for the next gen consoles? I'd like to see around 80-90W like the 360/PS3/Wii U, but that might not be realistic.
 
PS360 started out at <=200W, so I'd expect similar from their successors. Consoles still play the game of "small, quiet, powerful: pick any two."

If we're expecting 7850-7870 level performance, that's 100-130W by itself ([strike]albeit at 40nm, and[/strike] that includes memory that the console CPU will presumably share).

Edit: Whoops, you're right, Dr. Evil. They're already 28nm, so maybe not a lot of room for perf/W improvement for a tweaked next gen (88x0) part on the same process.
 
Kabini will replace Zacate in the Brazos 2.0 platform and sport four processor cores. The processor is based on the second generation Bobcat architecture called Jaguar and also here the details are few. Besides that we find a new graphics processor that is also based on GCN and will get a TDP of 9W to 25W. Kabini is also expected to get an integrated southbridge, which means that AMD for the first time will have an entire platform on a single chip. The focus for Kabini will be the cheaper notebook segment, much like Brazos 2.0.
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So if Kabini has 4 cores and a GPU as well as some other stuff at 25W TDP then fitting 8 of them without considering the GPU ought to be doable in say 30W at a reasonable clock speed? So overall it ought to be possible say to fit 8 cores plus say a ~200mm^2 GCN GPU in a reasonablish 120W TDP? That'd leave about 30W for other stuff like optical drives/HDD and gives the overall system a respectable 150W TDP, right?

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...iscuss-future-apus-and-server-processors.html
 
Squilliam said:
So if Kabini has 4 cores and a GPU as well as some other stuff at 25W TDP then fitting 8 of them without considering the GPU ought to be doable in say 30W at a reasonable clock speed? So overall it ought to be possible say to fit 8 cores plus say a ~200mm^2 GCN GPU in a reasonablish 120W TDP? That'd leave about 30W for other stuff like optical drives/HDD and gives the overall system a respectable 150W TDP, right?

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...iscuss-future-apus-and-server-processors.html
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That's exactly what I have been predicting. It might be on the high side though (8 cores + 200mm GPU). I keep thinking 8 core @ 1.6-2.0 GHz + 768 GCN shaders @ 0.8-1.0GHz which would probably be a chip with less than 200mm. With the raw specs and a modern architecture should be easily 8-10X over the previous gen (Halo4 @ 1080p/60 with plenty of room for IQ and engine improvements)
 
Playstation 4 Speculation from PSM3 Magazine

Source: NeoGAF -> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=498008&page=32

Playstation 4 speculation from PSM3 magazine (via gamefront.de)

- Console will not be named PS4 but Playstation will be in the brand name (4 = shi in Japan which also can mean death)

- First generation games will look like the high-end PC demos of Watch Dogs, Star Wars 1313, Luminous tech demo

- Sony will show PS4 demos at E3 2013

- PS4 games will not run at 4k resolution - this will resolution will be only used for videos

- Standard will be 1080p@60fps

- Used games won't run easily (don't know how to translate that) on the PS4

- There will be an online pass as a security measure

- 4 to 8GB RAM, 8GB if MS goes 8GB

- 16GB Flash (SSD?) memory

- no BC

- Games have to be registered in the PSN account

- PS+ will be a important pillar of the PS4

- Each PS4 will be bundled with a PS Move compatible controller + camera

- Game classics will be made available via Gaikai

- In-game advertisment

- 4 core AMD APU code name Liverpool at 28nm

- 400€-500€ with a loss for Sony
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