One should consider though that this was at a time when the TDP of the GPUs were still within a reasonable limit and could fit inside console sized box (whatever that is) using a reasonably cheapish and relatively quiet (can be debated of course) cooling solution. Since then the GPU TDP has gone nowhere but up and the high end GPUs now use more watt than the whole system did then, so unless you want a big box, very noisy fans or what would most likely be quite a costly cooling solution, I can understand why the expectations this time around might not be in line with the absolute most high end cards out there...
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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One should consider though that this was at a time when the TDP of the GPUs were still within a reasonable limit and could fit inside console sized box (whatever that is) using a reasonably cheapish and relatively quiet (can be debated of course) cooling solution. Since then the GPU TDP has gone nowhere but up and the high end GPUs now use more watt than the whole system did then, so unless you want a big box, very noisy fans or what would most likely be quite a costly cooling solution, I can understand why the expectations this time around might not be in line with the absolute most high end cards out there...
TheWretched
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Hm... I dunno. The TDP kept pretty stable around 150 Watts for the midrange stuff... Even lower to a degree. My 8800 GTS 320 was rated at 140 something, whereas my 6870 is rated at 151 Watts. And that's a 4/5 year gap between those cards. Well... the 8800 could be considered "high end" at the time... but there were at least two faster ones, just as the 6950 and the 6970 now (I don't consider the 2 GPU parts here mind you). But even those, though hotter, don't break the ceiling much more, either.
Sony to acquire Gaikai
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/02/sony-to-acquire-gaikai
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/02/sony-to-acquire-gaikai
How do you know?Being discussed already in another thread (or two), and isn't relevant to the new PlayStation Orbis hardware.
At AFDS, AMD talked about how HSA isn't only about OpenCL, but how it also enables devs to leverage GPUs for compute in their JAVA applications.
A few days later, we learn that SONY is about to buy GAIKAI, a JAVA-based game streaming service.
...
I'd actually be surprised if that move WASN'T somehow related to PS4 ...
Simply because galkai is a streaming internet service, and a gaming console is a piece of hardware. Two diametrically opposed things, really.
This has been rumored for weeks. It's also been judged irrelevant to this thread by a mod, so best not talk any more about it.
This thread is about trying to predict what hardware is in the next box. That Sony have bought a streaming game service doesn't change the hardware in the box, as a streaming service isn't dependent on hardware. Unless this move means Sony are dropping all their plans for Orbis and replacing PlayStation with Gaikai, the next wave of hardware will roll out as normal with some CPU+GPU+RAM combination that's render games locally.
upnorthsox
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One caveat, that is if Sony added(or rumored to be adding) specific hardware to facilitate Gaikai on the PS4. But until such time, the aquisition itself is irrelevant to this topic.
french toast
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Or..they are going cloud computing with next gen...and the dev kits are mearly to simulate the cloud servers??
In that instance all the talk on this thread would b useless as we would be looking at a tiny box with a snapdragon soc...
In that instance all the talk on this thread would b useless as we would be looking at a tiny box with a snapdragon soc...
anexanhume
Veteran
Would make sense given how rock solid they've proved the playstation network is.
Sony may well not need to. I think the PS3 should be able to handle GaiKai just fine. The XMB runs at 50ms, which is as low as just about anything, and the Cell SPEs are fine with decoding much more demanding streams than GaiKai serves with relative ease (certainly effort to spare for image enhancement). The cool thing about GaiKai is that it actually doesn't need much.
If we will see any dedicated hardware, it would probably be that the PS4 gets GaiKai server support, so you can host a game you own and stream it to some of your client devices. But I think GaiKai is otherwise mostly relevant to all Sony's other devices: TVs, Androids, and perhaps even Vita. PS4 to Vita streaming though could definitely be interesting if it uses GaiKai tech, and who knows if it is still possible to use GaiKai tech to some extent on PS3.
The other area in which this is interesting, is that like in Microsoft's leaked document, both companies could be assuming that next-gen tech hardware doesn't have to last as long, as during the second half of the generation, streaming game content will be able to look better than the built in hardware can achieve. In that sense, it has a definite impact on predicting what hardware is in the next box, as it would allow them to aim for a cheaper box out of the gates and relying on streaming content to improve IQ/gameplay experiences down the road rather than getting more out of relatively state of the art hardware.
If we will see any dedicated hardware, it would probably be that the PS4 gets GaiKai server support, so you can host a game you own and stream it to some of your client devices. But I think GaiKai is otherwise mostly relevant to all Sony's other devices: TVs, Androids, and perhaps even Vita. PS4 to Vita streaming though could definitely be interesting if it uses GaiKai tech, and who knows if it is still possible to use GaiKai tech to some extent on PS3.
The other area in which this is interesting, is that like in Microsoft's leaked document, both companies could be assuming that next-gen tech hardware doesn't have to last as long, as during the second half of the generation, streaming game content will be able to look better than the built in hardware can achieve. In that sense, it has a definite impact on predicting what hardware is in the next box, as it would allow them to aim for a cheaper box out of the gates and relying on streaming content to improve IQ/gameplay experiences down the road rather than getting more out of relatively state of the art hardware.
Although streaming services surely aren't nearly as hardware dependent as rendering games locally, they do need hardware that's very fast/efficient at running the streaming service in order to keep latency of high-res, heavily compressed data down (fast decoding is almost as important as bandwidth). In that respect, the notion of being able to efficiently run Gaikai on their next system might have a bigger impact on SONY's hardware plans than many might think. I explicitly hinted at the fact that AMD's future HSA platforms are designed, among other things, to efficiently run JAVA applications on the GPU. So there's a direct link between Gaikai and possible hardware choices.
Why not go for a hybrid appraoch? I agree it's way to early for a streaming-online console - but having powerful hardware that's ALSO really good at running your very own streaming service won't hurt.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
If MS or Sony or anyone else tries to move exclusively to streaming tech too soon then it will sink them.
The tech has terrifyingly awesome potential as an additional service to a fixed HW platform like consoles, handhelds, tablets etc. But if its forced on consumers as their only option for gaming at anytime in the near future then it clearly won't succeed.
Eitherway, I'm interesting in seeing the direction Sony goes with this. I don't however want to see a weakling PS4, released with the intent of streaming taking over in the next 5-10 years.
It'll be 20 years plus before internet infrastructure globally is capable of providing a consistent streaming service for everyone.
The tech has terrifyingly awesome potential as an additional service to a fixed HW platform like consoles, handhelds, tablets etc. But if its forced on consumers as their only option for gaming at anytime in the near future then it clearly won't succeed.
Eitherway, I'm interesting in seeing the direction Sony goes with this. I don't however want to see a weakling PS4, released with the intent of streaming taking over in the next 5-10 years.
It'll be 20 years plus before internet infrastructure globally is capable of providing a consistent streaming service for everyone.
french toast
Veteran
I think you are going to be disappointed then..because streaming is coming sooner than 20 years...the financial shit Sony is in they can't afford to be making hundreds of million $ investments for the far flung future...this is coming in a few years.
It doesn't have to be for everyone for it to be viable as a business. For anyone with a fibre connection in a city/area big enough for a CDN node, it's viable today. That's tens of millions of people. As fibre rollouts progress, we are talking about hundreds of millions in a few short years.
For a lot of people, streaming will never be viable, simply because of geography. But it will be a major force that the console makers have to prepare for before the next gen hits EOL. It might well be big enough by then that there will never be nextgen+1 -- globally, nearly everyone with disposable income lives in a city, and will have access to cheap fast broadband in a decade.
Yes I know and agree that shader performance continues to increase at a faster rate than other parts of the GPU. The only reason I chose that sample in particular is because it was in response to someone questioning the leap in power from this generation to the next generation of consoles being only 6-9x (on paper) when the last gen as measured in flops was more like 15x on paper. My point was that to measure the last gen increase by looking at FLOPS was inaccurate.
Actually this could have a lot to do with the PS4 hardware, because the PS4 can have hardware designed to take advantage of the service & also things like the hardware video encoding could mean that the PS4 will be a personal server for your other devices & they might be using the Gaikai tech instead of the old Remote Play tech.
UVD4 or 5? It' imho a non issue, the GPU is going to have what it takes to do the job.
Gaikai like onlive renders @60fps to lower latencies, achieving that is far from a given even while reducing IQ as GPU might not be the only bottleneck. You may need to rework your streaming system, CPU could just not keep up, etc.
I think it's possible that the (temporary) next PlayStation will be a firmware update.
This gives Sony more time to create the 'real' next gen PS4, using 4D stacking, Cell2, quad layer BD, 3D IO interconnects and other things I am predicting.
Should a next Xbox come out before the PS4 is finished, Sony can just release the update and be done with it.
Also, the gaikai stream could be frame doubled with minimal input lag thanks to Cell, that way it will appear much smoother.
Also, I predict 2GB of unified XDR2 ram for the PS4. Why? it's fast and reliable. Plus rambus has been a great sony partner for the past 2 generations.
This gives Sony more time to create the 'real' next gen PS4, using 4D stacking, Cell2, quad layer BD, 3D IO interconnects and other things I am predicting.
Should a next Xbox come out before the PS4 is finished, Sony can just release the update and be done with it.
Also, the gaikai stream could be frame doubled with minimal input lag thanks to Cell, that way it will appear much smoother.
Also, I predict 2GB of unified XDR2 ram for the PS4. Why? it's fast and reliable. Plus rambus has been a great sony partner for the past 2 generations.
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