Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

Status
Not open for further replies.
That doesn't make much sense. Epic would convince them anyway they can to go for as powerful as possible, not entry level.

What makes you think MS is interested in making their console as powerful as possible? As long as they're comparable to their competitors in power they would be content. They already have twice the ram! :p For marketing purpose that's probably the easiest point to get across. And no, I don't think it's possible for Sony to have 4GB of GDDR5 unless they're banking on higher density chips out by 2013.

I am not "Steviep"ing the Durango, I am just trying to rationalize the extremely reliable information that I got from a very respected member of this board.
 
Well, Lherre and bgassasins have said that Durango will be the most powerful next gen console...

Durango = Xbox1
PS4 = GC
Wii U= Dreamcast

Something like that.

I also said that based on indications from others before seeing the "rough draft" for myself.

He said that Durango Dev kits are more powerful than PS4 devs kits.


*More beast

Like I mentioned if he's saying that based on what I think he is, I disagree so far.
 
Kinect does not need 8GB of RAM, and the Kinect team would not have been the driving force for getting that much memory into a system. You could get a significantly enhanced Kinect with 2-3% of that much RAM (and that would be more than 4 times the current usage, depending on features enabled)

so about 200MB for Kinect 2?


(this will be on N4G in a hour lol)
 
I also said that based on indications from others before seeing the "rough draft" for myself.



Like I mentioned if he's saying that based on what I think he is, I disagree so far.
Weren't you the one they linked saying nextbox looks to be "high end PC" in comparison with the other two? Man this is always like this when next generation is near:smile:

What makes you think MS is interested in making their console as powerful as possible? As long as they're comparable to their competitors in power they would be content. They already have twice the ram! :p For marketing purpose that's probably the easiest point to get across. And no, I don't think it's possible for Sony to have 4GB of GDDR5 unless they're banking on higher density chips out by 2013.

I am not "Steviep"ing the Durango, I am just trying to rationalize the extremely reliable information that I got from a very respected member of this board.
I'm not thinking they will or should go crazy on power, but I'm pretty sure they will make it as powerful as their budget and tech allows them. Saying they went for 1 TFLOP GPU because EPIC told them that UE4 entry is that would be pretty illogical.

Sweeney recently said "We want as much FLOPS on GPU as you can possible fit in" and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't settle that easy for 1TFLOP, thats 80% difference in comparison with PS4, totally different demographics would be aimed with that move.
 
Sweeney recently said "We want as much FLOPS on GPU as you can possible fit in" and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't settle that easy for 1TFLOP, thats 80% difference in comparison with PS4, totally different demographics would be aimed with that move.

Developers, choosing lead platforms, will have to choose between more ram or better GPU. I think we both know which is better.

I was bullish when i heard the high end PC rumors. However now that Wii u specs are more or less clear, it's obvious that it doesn't take much to trounce a console that's not more than twice the power of the current gen.

I have no doubt we'll see Watchdog and Star wars 1313 looking amazing at 720p on launch on the Durango.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Developers, choosing lead platforms, will have to choose between more ram or better GPU. I think we both know which is better.
Or maybe they will go for 60fps on console with faster GPU. Maybe they will add graphical features that go well beyond sharper textures. Whatever they choose, if they choose, I wouldn't like next gen to be like that.
 
Kinect does not need 8GB of RAM, and the Kinect team would not have been the driving force for getting that much memory into a system. You could get a significantly enhanced Kinect with 2-3% of that much RAM (and that would be more than 4 times the current usage, depending on features enabled)

I had deposited in the Alt. memory/storage thread this, to summarize:

Optical Media: (a) Size: Large (25-50GB), (b) Cost: Media is cheap, Drives are $40-$50, (c) Transfer: slow, in the tends of MB/s, (d) Latency: very poor at >100ms, (e) Other: They tend to be loud at high speeds and have reliability issues. Getting content from an optical disk into a game is the pits.

Hard Disk Drives: (a) Size: Large (250-750GB), (b) Cost: Drives have jumped into the > $50 wholesale range, game distribution only works with DLC, (c) Transfer: slow, but better than Optical, as it nears about 100 MB/s for best case scenarios, (d) Latency: poor at ~ 10ms, (e) Other: While HDDs cut down on transfer speed to memory they are still not exceptionally fast or quick. Serviceable although the idea of populating 4GB of memory from a HDDs averaging 20-50MB/s is still cringe worthy (80 seconds to fully populate at 50MB/s... yes, gameplay starting before load is possible but so are fragmented loads in the 10s of MB/s, too).

SSDs: (a) Size: Medium (60-128GB for console budgets), (b) Cost: Drives are expensive running up toward $100 but with some potential for cost reduction, game distribution only works with DLC, (c) Transfer: Good, in the hundreds of MB/s for best case scenarios, (d) Latency: Good at ~ <0.1ms, (e) Other: Some hurdles, especially in durability, in future reductions. SSDs are fast but they have limited size (100GB would seem small with caching for games on 50GB disks) so you are stuck re-loading content.

So what are we to do? The industry is at a rough inflection point. The future looks to be large SSD's with DLC, but that future is not today.

I had suggested a cheaper solution: A ton of RAM. I even specifically recommended 8GB.

The idea that you could stream from your Optical Drive or HDD (or both) to a large RAM pool was this: One long load time, but enough memory that entire segments of games could be buffered into memory. So lets say each level is 2GB. You could start level 1 (2GB) and by the time you are done level 2 (2GB), level 3 (2GB), and level 4 (2GB) could already be sitting into memory. Cut it however you want (MP and SP and the next level loaded, whatever).

With 8GB of memory (a) Size: 8GB is large for memory so close to the processors; not good for long term storage but amazing for application use , (b) Cost: RAM has dropped through the floor, I have seen 4GB going for $25 and 8GB for under $50, (c) Transfer: Great, > 20GB/s, (d) Latency: Great in the ns range.

The only real issue is getting content into the RAM. But you are stuck with optical for distribution and optical and HDDs for storage anyways and a SSD, while a nice upgrade, is on the order of a magnitude SLOWER in bandwidth and latency than RAM. Instead of spending > $100 for a SSD why not spend an extra $25 to move from 4GB to 8GB memory and go with TSRs that state: gameplay must start within X seconds and then focus on content buffering. The idea you could access up to 8GB of content within a frame or two is pretty amazing.

That, right there, is why I think 8GB is a strong chance to being a real rumor. It is the cheapest trade off compared to a SSD, it addresses caching, buffering, and loading on a lot of levels (except initial load), and the performance benefit is WAY bigger than all the competing technologies. Getting bandwidth > 40x over a class leading SSD (and it gets only higher if the system bandwidth is over 20GB/s for the 8GB) and easily >200x over an optical drive (realistically nearing >1000) and the latency is a joke (e.g. RAM with 6ns latency = .000006ms; put another way 100ms optical drive latency is 100000000ns; RAM, not can be in the tens of ns of latency so 1x10^6 better if I did my math right).

Bring on the 8GB consoles :p
 
Or maybe they will go for 60fps on console with faster GPU. Maybe they will add graphical features that go well beyond sharper textures. Whatever they choose, if they choose, I wouldn't like next gen to be like that.

It'll be piss easy compared to having to optimize between Cell and Xenon this generation.
 
It'll be piss easy compared to having to optimize between Cell and Xenon this generation.
On contrary. This generation you have to split some work between RSX and Cell in order to be on par with Xenos and just take care of your PS3 memory because you have a bit less of it.

Next gen you would have huge gulf between GPUs and memory in consoles. With 8 GB devs can do alot of stuff that is simply not possible to fit in 4 GB, but having GPU that is considerably more powerful ( to the point of it being almost twice as fast ) also gives them a choice to make game looking totally different in terms of visuals then on other console.

But I do think, with the amount of importance of 3rd party this gen for both MS and Sony, and sending of dev kits and target specs they both know what to expect from each other so I don't think we will get in this position at all.

I doubt MS will go for 8 GB and I somewhat believe Sony will go for 4 GB as 3rd party is suggesting.
 
I don't know if ShockingAlberto (in NeoGAF) is legit, but he said that MS is going "batshit crazy"

They asked (MS) publishers and developers what they need in a next-gen system

EA, Activision, DICE, and Epic all insisted on raising the ceiling by what we would traditionally consider a generational leap.

Microsoft listened because they were told this would increase game sales and hardware adoption.

EDIt: Talking about ram... What about HMC ram? can it be possible for 2014 in a next gen console?
 
I don't know if ShockingAlberto (in NeoGAF) is legit, but he said that MS is going "batshit crazy"
There are ways to go batshit crazy besides GPU teraflops. Maybe the perf / dollar value of CPU and ram is higher than the GPU?

EDIt: Talking about ram... What about HMC ram? can it be possible for 2014 in a next gen console?

Probably not. It'll be tested in smartphones since people upgrade those every one or two years anyways. I think it'll be risky to assume new ram technology can last 5+ years under heavy use.
 
There are ways to go batshit crazy besides GPU teraflops. Maybe the perf / dollar value of CPU and ram is higher than the GPU?

If DICE and Epic are requesting some minimum specs for their g. engines, maybe GPU is one of the key (I hope).

Probably not. It'll be tested in smartphones since people upgrade those every one or two years anyways. I think it'll be risky to assume new ram technology can last 5+ years under heavy use.

:cry:
 
Plus the 8GB would likely be DDR3 with some kind of EDRAM setup (probably all these compromises, 8GB needs DDR3, DDR3 needs EDRAM, EDRAM takes away all the GPU transistors, Durango ends up with flimsy GPU) mandated by the Kinect team needing 8GB of RAM, "Kinect, ruining gaming since 1492"). Vs the 4GB being fast powerful DDR5 on a 256 bus.

g-spec DDR3 can run upwards of 2.6 Gb/s (currently and should be able to do upwards of 3 Gb/s if you push it) which would give 83.2 GB/s or roughly half what you get with GDDR5. But given the pricing differences and capacity differences, it allows roughly 2-4x the capacity for the same price.

For sure a simple 256 bit bus and no EDRAM is the way to go, that is good system design by Sony if true.

Depends on the memory capacity. Getting 4GB and above opens up a lot of new possibilities.
 
What makes you think MS is interested in making their console as powerful as possible? As long as they're comparable to their competitors in power they would be content. They already have twice the ram! :p For marketing purpose that's probably the easiest point to get across. And no, I don't think it's possible for Sony to have 4GB of GDDR5 unless they're banking on higher density chips out by 2013.

Right now, the dram chips that would be required for Sony to hit 4GB with GDDR5 aren't even sampling. To hit those capacities, they will need to use 4Gb parts. The cost of 4Gb parts if/when they are released is going to be pretty significant. The price differential between g-spec DDR3 and GDDR5 is already very significant.
 
Right now, the dram chips that would be required for Sony to hit 4GB with GDDR5 aren't even sampling. To hit those capacities, they will need to use 4Gb parts. The cost of 4Gb parts if/when they are released is going to be pretty significant. The price differential between g-spec DDR3 and GDDR5 is already very significant.

Question, what is the highest density g-spec DDR3 and how would they be able to get 8GB of it into a console?

In addition, would they have a need for additional GDDR5 or Edram?
 
The rumored ram for 720 is DDR3:

PS4
CPU: AMD SOC. 4 core.
GPU: 1.8 teraflops, 1152 SPUs at 800 mhz.
RAM: 2GB of unified ram.

Xbox 720
CPU: IBM (possibly AMD) extremely powerful.
GPU: 1.5 teraflops.
RAM: 4-8 GB of DDR3, 1-2GB of video.

Wii U
CPU: IBM.
GPU: AMD 0.5-1.0 teraflops
RAM: 1.5-2 GB.

Is DDR3 too low for videogames?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top