Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
- Thread starter Acert93
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I think that's why MrFOx said "if it's really 16 cores".
But at this point we don't know better
As I noted in the Xbox Rumor thread, I bet 4 Power7 HW threads (1 core) bests 4 Xenon threads (2 full cores) by a good margin. Heck, considering Amdahl's law and serial bottlenecks, a single Power7 core may be as fast or faster than Xenon. A good memory architecture, OOOe, and a more robust processor design can go a long way to accelerate those "worst case scenarios that chew through a lot of processor cycles."
^ Charlie mentioned that Sony is actively looking into stacking, but initial consoles will maybe come without it.
Found it.
"... That basic formula still works, so the PS4 might be a ‘two chip fusion’ design with the intent to weld the two when the technology allows."
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/03/02/sony-playstation-4-will-be-an-x86-cpu-with-an-amd-gpu/
Found it.
"... That basic formula still works, so the PS4 might be a ‘two chip fusion’ design with the intent to weld the two when the technology allows."
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/03/02/sony-playstation-4-will-be-an-x86-cpu-with-an-amd-gpu/
The link sounds like uninformed bs to me. id love to see the magical cpu thats 'far in excess' of the performance of a quad sandybridge ever mind a sandybridge-e which is clearly far too masssive to go into a console. and why does it even matter if todays pc games dont make use of all the available cores/threads? Obviously future cross platform games that take advantage of 16 threads/cores on the consoles would also take advantage of all the threads a sandy/ivy bridge could throw at it.
If the initial consoles come without stacking, that throws away a lot of the memory bandwidth advantages, that can't come back down the line
The two APU would certainly need to be customized to accept GDDR5 I guess.
If they go with GPU/APU, maybe ther can get away with nearly stock parts, with lots of DDR3 on the APU, and GDDR5 on the GPU?
The two APU would certainly need to be customized to accept GDDR5 I guess.
If they go with GPU/APU, maybe ther can get away with nearly stock parts, with lots of DDR3 on the APU, and GDDR5 on the GPU?
No way is a 16 core CPU a good idea, each one would be very weak.
A quad core Power 7 is a far better idea.
The Radeon 7000 series is made up of a whole bunch of cards, With 6000 series based cards on the low end and Cape Verde being worlds away from Tahiti.
I always get the feeling that rumors like this come from people that have just about no knowledge of tech.
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You mean a 16 cores CPU would be far better than a 16 "cores" CPU?
You mean a 16 cores CPU would be far better than a 16 "cores" CPU?
SMT =! Core
TheD, I am sure Ranger can see the difference. But you need to go back to his post and see what he wrote. Hint: General consumers, diminishing returns, etc. Furthermore, while core gamers here associate certain things (higher resolution textures for example) as better because they are technically better a general observer is looking at the total image/impact. In this case the issue seems to be more artistic. We had this issue with some games here where one example I recall to mind a PS3 game was technically inferior but gamers were saying they preferred it due to the color and softer image.
That is not to say there are not clear examples of PC superiority, but the question at times becomes one of degrees and how important that may be to a consumer.
That is not to say there are not clear examples of PC superiority, but the question at times becomes one of degrees and how important that may be to a consumer.
IllusionistK
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What advantages does a quad-core Power7 have over a quad-core(dual-module) Bulldozer? Shallow pipe-line stages is one... A BD core rivals a Pentium 4 when it comes to execution depth.
With a dual-module BD, you're looking at <50w for the CPU. Dramatically less if its clocked ~ the 3Ghz mark and less still, if there is some cache parsing done to the unnecessarily large [for consoles] L2 & L3.
Under gaming, a Tahiti Pro(7950) consumes only 135w and that's with two gigabytes of RAM at five gigahertz at two megapixels.
Personally, I don't see the unfounded 200w TDP difficult to obtain while still providing a generational leap that we're all looking for.
Who says they have to take a loss with 200w anyway? 200w in 2013 != 200w in 2005. So honestly, if manufacturers decide to loss lead, we still may see a box with a TDP of >200w. If not, not big deal as it will still be a powerhouse.
With a dual-module BD, you're looking at <50w for the CPU. Dramatically less if its clocked ~ the 3Ghz mark and less still, if there is some cache parsing done to the unnecessarily large [for consoles] L2 & L3.
Under gaming, a Tahiti Pro(7950) consumes only 135w and that's with two gigabytes of RAM at five gigahertz at two megapixels.
Personally, I don't see the unfounded 200w TDP difficult to obtain while still providing a generational leap that we're all looking for.
Who says they have to take a loss with 200w anyway? 200w in 2013 != 200w in 2005. So honestly, if manufacturers decide to loss lead, we still may see a box with a TDP of >200w. If not, not big deal as it will still be a powerhouse.
I think 300W is possible for sony as long as the targets is a form factor close to the original PS3.
The power supply in the PS3 was 400W (32A@12v, 3A@5V). They could make it thinner by at least 0.5" by using the 3"x6" empty area available in front of it. The BR drive can definitely be thinner by 0.5" too, and that sum already liberates volume at the perfect place for additional fins and a taller centrifugal fan over the whole bottom area. It easily adds up to 50% more heat sink surface at the same LFM, with the same fan RPM, so a similar low noise. More metal for the fins would add some cost though... might need heat pipes too...
Not sure about microsoft, but power supply and heat management has been their biggest problem at 200W, they might not try to go above that and focus instead on efficiency to reach the same or better performance
The power supply in the PS3 was 400W (32A@12v, 3A@5V). They could make it thinner by at least 0.5" by using the 3"x6" empty area available in front of it. The BR drive can definitely be thinner by 0.5" too, and that sum already liberates volume at the perfect place for additional fins and a taller centrifugal fan over the whole bottom area. It easily adds up to 50% more heat sink surface at the same LFM, with the same fan RPM, so a similar low noise. More metal for the fins would add some cost though... might need heat pipes too...
Not sure about microsoft, but power supply and heat management has been their biggest problem at 200W, they might not try to go above that and focus instead on efficiency to reach the same or better performance
DoctorFouad
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wow ! Now we are talking rationally ! I am glad after all I was right in my prediction ! this is for me the first CREDIBLE rumor of nextxbox devkits. As I already said many times, I just didnt understand how people believed the previous non sense rumors : there is no way microsoft (or sony) are going for a 6000 series outdated less performance per watt architecture for their GPUs, the 7000 series is the minimum to expect.
Having a 16 cores CPU makes a lot of sense for next gen consoles, it future proof the CPU architecture and development pipelines, (xbox360 already had 3 dual threaded cores at a time when most PCs had only 1 dual threaded core), PCs of 2013 would already have 8 core CPUs, so it is logical to see Microsoft aiming for even more cores.
This also will give microsoft an advantage in terms of easily emulating the xbox360 CPU for backwards compatibility.
If Sony want to emulate the CELL for its ps4 for backwards compatibility, they need too a CPU design with more than 8 cores. 4 cores wont cut it for sony, unless they go for an IBM power8 design 4 cores quad threaded CPU....If sony could secure an exclusivity to the 2013 IBM power8 architecture and use out of order 8 quad threaded cores in its PS4, it will beat the hell out of a any nextxbox 16 cores CPU granted, while securing the backwards compatibility of ps3 games.....but unfortunately it seems sony is going the AMD CPU route
It is unlikely they are going for 6000 series, but I doubt these rumors are more credible than any others. We have a new rumor every week it seems...
Just the last 3 rumors we have 8 cores, 4-6 cores, and 16 cores.
It is probably too early, if any of these rumors are true, we wont really know until perhaps this time next year (we are only now getting a clear idea of Wii U's power).
Sony want to emulate the CELL for its ps4 for backwards compatibility, they need too a CPU design with more than 8 cores. 4 cores wont cut it for sony, unless they go for an IBM power8 design 4 cores quad threaded CPU....If sony could secure an exclusivity to the 2013 IBM power8 architecture and use out of order 8 quad threaded cores in its PS4, it will beat the hell out of a any nextxbox 16 cores CPU granted, while securing the backwards compatibility of ps3 games.....but unfortunately it seems sony is going the AMD CPU route
So you expect a 4 core power 8, which incidentally doesnt exist to be far superior to a 16 core cpu of completely unknown design? I guess you must have some super secret knowledge that the rest of us lack.
Incidentally would you mind sharing your BD vs Power 8 gaming benchmarks? Or for that matter BD vs Power 7? Because right now i dont see any compelling evidence to suggesta 4 module BD would be inferior to a 4 core power 7 when it comes to games.
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