This is interesting, Sony really likes their in-house interposer technology 
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol57/pdf/sideview57.pdf
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol57/pdf/sideview57.pdf
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
- Thread starter Acert93
- Start date
- Status
Any specifics? Because Pitcairn is a 212mm^2 GPU with a TDP in the 130-170W rated range and Kepler is rumored to be much larger at 294mm^2 and a TDP rated at 195W. Kepler is almost 40% larger.
Well, technically pitcairn (pro) was listed at 175w right? Kepler gk104 at 195w and it seems faster than 7970. Die size I'm thinking can be a stretch goal unlike heat.
Kepler gk104 seem like you could squeeze it into a console at the top edge much better than Tahiti, while also being faster than Tahiti.
Kepler gk104 seem like you could squeeze it into a console at the top edge much better than Tahiti, while also being faster than Tahiti.
From what I have seen there are the rated TDPs and the actual. The Pro model Pitcairn (some measure load TDP closer to 105W or so) is really low while Kepler I have read has gone over the rated TDP in the 200W range. Also, there is the issue of the memory interface as Kepler, correct me if I am wrong, is a 384bit? So bigger, almost 2x real TDP (???) between some models, and a much larger bus. I guess we will know a lot more shortly--will be interesting. The Kepler stats I saw showed 8x MSAA tests only which raises an eyebrow.
Blazkowicz
Legend
no it's 256bit, which makes it greatly bandwith efficient. or they've made a great memory controller which can drive the gddr5 at high speeds.
not sure it would really fit in even an high end console very well, if we look at the alienware console-like PC they put a low midrange GPU in it.
not sure it would really fit in even an high end console very well, if we look at the alienware console-like PC they put a low midrange GPU in it.
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
sorry for being late to the party eventhough I begin reading this interesting thread since a long time ago, anyway this is my prediction (I will play it safe this time lol and return after with a more innovative predictions ) :
for the next xbox :
Microsoft this time will play it safe, not very expensive hardware, but very efficient, the console will be FULLY backward compatibe with every xbox360 and xboxlive games and applications + new kinect HD accessory that will be sold separately.
release date : december 2013
processor : a not very modified IBM power 7, 6 cores (dual threaded), 3.4 ghz
RAM : unified 3 GO of GDDR5 ram, 120 GO/s
GPU : VERY modified AMD 7000 series directx 11 GPU, with 2 teraflops processing power + 64 mo of edram at 600 go/s.
optical drive : blu ray, 6x
hard drive : it depends on the model, 500 GO, 750 GO or 1 TO.
Price : 499 $ without kinect HD, and 599 $ with kinect HD bundled.
For PS4 :
ps4 will be more powerful than next xbox, it will be released later on, almost 1.5 times more powerful. PS4 will be backwards compatible with all playstations before it (ps1, 2, 3) and all sony playstation network applications. Maybe some new accessory will sold deparately to fight kinect HD.
Release date : september-october 2014
processor : a VERY modified IBM power 8, 8 cores (quad threaded), 3.8 ghz, that could easily emulate the CELL.
RAM : unified 4 GO of GDDR5 ram, 160 GO/s
GPU : VERY modified AMD 8000 series directx 11 GPU, with 4 teraflops processing power but no edram.
16 GO of flash memory serving as a cash and also to install a difficult to hack upgradable operating system via internet.
optical drive : blu ray, 8x
hard drive : it depends on the model, 500 GO, 750 GO, 1 TO, or 2 TO.
Price : 499 $
for the next xbox :
Microsoft this time will play it safe, not very expensive hardware, but very efficient, the console will be FULLY backward compatibe with every xbox360 and xboxlive games and applications + new kinect HD accessory that will be sold separately.
release date : december 2013
processor : a not very modified IBM power 7, 6 cores (dual threaded), 3.4 ghz
RAM : unified 3 GO of GDDR5 ram, 120 GO/s
GPU : VERY modified AMD 7000 series directx 11 GPU, with 2 teraflops processing power + 64 mo of edram at 600 go/s.
optical drive : blu ray, 6x
hard drive : it depends on the model, 500 GO, 750 GO or 1 TO.
Price : 499 $ without kinect HD, and 599 $ with kinect HD bundled.
For PS4 :
ps4 will be more powerful than next xbox, it will be released later on, almost 1.5 times more powerful. PS4 will be backwards compatible with all playstations before it (ps1, 2, 3) and all sony playstation network applications. Maybe some new accessory will sold deparately to fight kinect HD.
Release date : september-october 2014
processor : a VERY modified IBM power 8, 8 cores (quad threaded), 3.8 ghz, that could easily emulate the CELL.
RAM : unified 4 GO of GDDR5 ram, 160 GO/s
GPU : VERY modified AMD 8000 series directx 11 GPU, with 4 teraflops processing power but no edram.
16 GO of flash memory serving as a cash and also to install a difficult to hack upgradable operating system via internet.
optical drive : blu ray, 8x
hard drive : it depends on the model, 500 GO, 750 GO, 1 TO, or 2 TO.
Price : 499 $
Actually it's allowed to be up to 150 watts replaceable by user. nearly to gk104 already.
ehh, i meant the faster pitcairn. if pro is the slow one my bad.
yeah, "real" power usage will be worth checking out when gk104 reviews arrive.
You forgot the cryogenic liquid nitrogen cooling solution so that these boxes don't immediately set fire to your house.
So, a Kepler review leaked, and I think pitcairn vs Kepler you'd much rather have Kepler in a console.
Looks like Sony jumped off the Nvidia bandwagon at exactly the wrong time. I expect a slew of "Sony is back with Nvidia!" unsourced rumors to pop up
A modified 670 ti with a TDP of 175W should be perfect, it would be quite a bit faster than a 7870 and a 580gtx if 680gtx benches are true. Again if Sony is launching in 2014 I'd imagine it's a good possibility if they decide to switch company. But man speculating about the specs of nextgen consoles is one of the best thing about gaming
especially at the end cycle.upnorthsox
Veteran
This graph is based on a 300mm interposer
Even though it fairly cheap, it get really cheap once you go to glass (if you can for your process).
Remember also, you can use both sides of an interposer so a chase to dram could be as short as 90um which is shorter than some L2 chases and a huge power saving(10x or more).
steampoweredgod
Banned
Several of my unscratched pristine old dvds have stopped working, I like physical media so I hope they include milleniata m disk tech(which I heard the dod is using and may scale to blu ray). Just want long lasting disks. Plus the logo reminds of the lovely dreamcast.
How big are the dies they are talking about because less than $1/die is cheap. Almost everything I have read about Interposers has been positive except... they are not quite ready yet, at least for a 2012 product. 2013 maybe, but it seems to be pushing it.
The Kepler previews leave me even more iffy about the "fat" in GCN (from a console perspective). AMD has lost its performances per mm2 advantage. I'm eager to read more in depth review about this architecture.
Then looking forward and watching at decisions made by Nvidia for the Echelon project (? I've a doubt about the project name) ie a VLIW architecture, I wonder if MS might be better off with something custom growing from a "lighter" than GCN architecture.
Then looking forward and watching at decisions made by Nvidia for the Echelon project (? I've a doubt about the project name) ie a VLIW architecture, I wonder if MS might be better off with something custom growing from a "lighter" than GCN architecture.
Blazkowicz
Legend
if the catch is you just can turn it into a loud piece of crap without voiding yet the warranty it's not too good.
Was just reading a fairly new review on 60GB SSD drives. At about $100 (retail) 60GB "Boot Drive" SSD drives have some really great performance (here here and here) with Random 4KB reads and writes up to over 300MB/s and 128KB sequential reads over 500MB/s and come with a laughably low seek time (e.g. 0.05ms which is over 200x faster than a HDD and about 3000x faster than an optical drive) oh and they clock in at about a whole ~ 1W of power draw--but still, even at volume pricing too expensive for a console unless it was a major part of the platform. And even then you still are going to need another chunk of change for a HDD (unless you go with a Arcade/Pro model where the Arcade has a SSD and the Pro a SSD and HDD). It is really too bad they are so expensive but kind of puts into perspective that while a huge amount of RAM, even if there is a secondary pool for such, is a much cheaper solution. Which is too bad because a SSD is the best single upgrade I have seen for a PC in a decade imo. I guess you could argue going for a smaller SSD but the only cost isn't the chips but the memory interface as well.
Memory configuration, both at the chip level (caches) and for the system are going to define next gen as much as the GPU/CPU "cores" imo. I think the most palatable and cheap solution for system memory is going to be Optical for the Games Distribution and Storage (cheap, large storage, media use), a large HDD for installs and to blunt the transfer and seek times of the optical drive, and a large amount of RAM so games are a "load once" and then background stream & cache the game. RAM is going to be faster than any SSD and while no solution is ideal the cost of the optical drive/HDD is already "budgets" so the only big investment is RAM. RAM, compared to the cost of some sort of SSD storage, is much cheaper and once you get the content into the RAM it outperforms everything else. I wonder if large chunks of game data can be aligned for optimal reading (e.g. large sequential blocks of data to be streamed in chunks). There would have to be some good tools for such because data all over the place is going to kill performance and make filling 8GB of RAM painful. I guess it is lucky Blu Ray can be quite large as to allow for such inefficient but speed-friendly "packing" of content where you may have 2-4GB blocks for gaming segments that have a lot of repeated data from other segments but you keep them as such to maximize transfer.
I cannot really think of a "cheaper" solution that hits as many of the problem points. It will be interesting how this one plays out.
Memory configuration, both at the chip level (caches) and for the system are going to define next gen as much as the GPU/CPU "cores" imo. I think the most palatable and cheap solution for system memory is going to be Optical for the Games Distribution and Storage (cheap, large storage, media use), a large HDD for installs and to blunt the transfer and seek times of the optical drive, and a large amount of RAM so games are a "load once" and then background stream & cache the game. RAM is going to be faster than any SSD and while no solution is ideal the cost of the optical drive/HDD is already "budgets" so the only big investment is RAM. RAM, compared to the cost of some sort of SSD storage, is much cheaper and once you get the content into the RAM it outperforms everything else. I wonder if large chunks of game data can be aligned for optimal reading (e.g. large sequential blocks of data to be streamed in chunks). There would have to be some good tools for such because data all over the place is going to kill performance and make filling 8GB of RAM painful. I guess it is lucky Blu Ray can be quite large as to allow for such inefficient but speed-friendly "packing" of content where you may have 2-4GB blocks for gaming segments that have a lot of repeated data from other segments but you keep them as such to maximize transfer.
I cannot really think of a "cheaper" solution that hits as many of the problem points. It will be interesting how this one plays out.
It's larger than the original PS3 (it's huge!) and it has an Xbox 360 style external power brick! And the according to the internets it's noisy (the GPU cooler) under load.
I hope the X51 doesn't reflect nextgen consoles. They don't need to be Wii small, but I hope they aren't noisy.
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
at 28 nm and less cash memory transistors for the processors, I dont see why the configuration would be any hotter than the first models of ps3 and xbox 360....
It is puzzling to me the pessimistic nature of a lot of contributions to this thread assuming the next xbox and ps4 will have less silicon budget, less TDP and run cooler than the first ps3 and xbox 360 models.
if the next xbox a and ps4 would have at least the same silicon budget as their predecessors, than we are going to look at real beasts in terms of processing power, unlike what a lot here are predicting. I believe the configuration I suggested is very feasible in terms of cost/performance and having the advantage of being fully backwards compatible in an age of digital distribution that is very important for microsoft and sony.
sony wont go for a new CELL for obvious reasons (programming difficulties of ps3) their best choice is a processor designed by IBM which could emulate the CELL. A modified power 8 with less cash memory would be a perfect fit in ps4 in 2014.
Regarding the GPU, it is illogical to accept the rumors of a 6000 series GPU for next xbox, this doesent make any sense in terms of business decisions, the 7000 series is already here and it is more efficient, I would even go further and predict an xbox next GPU between 7000 and 8000 series. As for ps4, sony wont accept any design inferior to the next 8000 series. After the lesson they took with PS3 releasing a 7800 gt GPU which was replacer by a far superior geforce 8 with unified shaders and running the game crisis in the PC world a couple of months after ps3 release, that was like a rip from nvidia !
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
