Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[bgassassin]

Difference being that WiiU is essentially the same as xb360 and ps3 so ... nothing quite next-gen about it.

So a console with at least 3x the L2 cache and eDRAM of the 360, possibly 3x the system memory of 360, possibly 640 ALUs compared to 48 on Xenos, and a more than likely OoO CPU clocked higher than Xenon is on par with the 360? Obviously you are very understanding of technology, so I'm going to assume that statement was based on... well I don't know what it could be based on.

 

[Barbarian]

So a console with at least 3x the L2 cache and eDRAM of the 360, possibly 3x the system memory of 360, possibly 640 ALUs compared to 48 on Xenos, and a more than likely OoO CPU clocked higher than Xenon is on par with the 360? Obviously you are very understanding of technology, so I'm going to assume that statement was based on... well I don't know what it could be based on.

And your data is based on ...?
You do realize, a OoO CPU clocked higher than Xenon (3.2Ghz) would cost a fortune, right?
And I'm not even going to comment on the 640 vs 48 ALUs.

 

[bgassassin]

And your data is based on ...?
You do realize, a OoO CPU clocked higher than Xenon (3.2Ghz) would cost a fortune, right?
And I'm not even going to comment on the 640 vs 48 ALUs.

Based on people who either have a dev kit or know someone who does. Gekko and Hollywood are OoO, I don't see Nintendo changing and I meant to say possibly clocked higher, though I bet it wouldn't be expensive if it were. And all rumors and comments have said the GPU is an RV770 in the dev kit.

 

[homerdog]

Or heaven forbid, drop to 720p with MSAA and upscale with a whatever-generation AVIVO. FWIW, I doubt there will be nearly as many people who notice sub-1080p than sub-720p this gen. Scaling has gotten a lot better since 2005.

720p -> 1080p upscaling is perfectly fine even for next generation as long as AA quality is high.

I thought midrange includes nvidia 560ti whose performance is not that far? And amd/ati I've heard tends to have lower power consumption in general.

560Ti is approaching the very high end. GTX460 is decidedly midrange based on price and performance.

I'm not entirely sure about that, it would depend on use. A 16-18 core cell would definitely pose a challenge at certain tasks. And elements of the cell can go upto 6Ghz in 45nm, so nextcell turbo-clocking a few elements if need be for single thread gain could probably be viable. Would an i5 core outake a 6Ghz spu?

A Cell SPU and an Intel SNB core are so different this question is not really possible to answer. SNB cores are capable of much more than Cell SPUs.

But honestly i3? I thought i5 was midrange, i3 lowbudget.

i3-2100 is a very fast midrange processor, based on price/performance. i5 Sandy Bridge CPUs are high end.

Even Intel's cheapest SNB Pentium processors are fast. For real low-end you have to go with Intel's cheapest of the cheap or AMD.

This thread moves so fast I just can't keep up any more. You guys have fun

 

[TheChefO]

Based on people who either have a dev kit or know someone who does. Gekko and Hollywood are OoO, I don't see Nintendo changing and I meant to say possibly clocked higher, though I bet it wouldn't be expensive if it were. And all rumors and comments have said the GPU is an RV770 in the dev kit.

I'll be happy to see Nintendo actually put some of that money they made on Wii to bring a big-boy system to market.

I'll enjoy that crow if it comes to fruition.

But, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Acert93]

720p -> 1080p upscaling is perfectly fine even for next generation as long as AA quality is high.

I know some are crying for 1080p/60 "standard" but the 60Hz is not going to happen, or should, as a lot of games make many gamers happy at 30Hz. And as Carmack says a 30Hz game can have 3x the graphics because of more tolerance than a 60Hz title. Which brings us to 720p. 1080p is a 2.25x increase in pixels. Getting a razer sharp IQ at 720p with AA and AF and scaling up will look great on most displays. I know what I would choose if we had to look at a 720p MSAA particle buffer upscaled versus a 1080p one without AA and less going on.

Heck, if devs are putting the pixels to good use I don't care if they go sub-HD even. I say let devs decide what is best for their graphics, not some arbitrary check boxes.

 

[steampoweredgod]

560Ti is approaching the very high end. GTX460 is decidedly midrange based on price and performance.

560ti is around 250$, iirc, and would likely be lower if there hadn't been a delay in this year's gpu fall offerings. To me high end is $300+ gpus, particularly the $500-600 range

A Cell SPU and an Intel SNB core are so different this question is not really possible to answer. SNB cores are capable of much more than Cell SPUs.

The question would be with regards to gaming related physics simulations, as that will likely eat the bulk of processing power. A next-gen cpu would likely offer something near 1Tflops of performance, I don't see an i5 or i7 going near that, and if this figure is indicative of game physics performance it will be superior in such.

 

[AlphaWolf]

560Ti is approaching the very high end. GTX460 is decidedly midrange based on price and performance.

There's a big range of what's mid, the 460 is definitely near the bottom of that range.

i3-2100 is a very fast midrange processor, based on price/performance. i5 Sandy Bridge CPUs are high end.

No.

I can get an i3 in a <$500 pre-built system, or just over $100 for the cpu alone That's pretty low end, at the very most it's the very bottom of the mid-range. And if an i5 is high end, what the hell is an i7 2600k? beyond that there's still the extreme edition.

 

[bgassassin]

I'll be happy to see Nintendo actually put some of that money they made on Wii to bring a big-boy system to market.

I'll enjoy that crow if it comes to fruition.

But, I'll believe it when I see it.

I understand. And I think we all expect MS and Sony to have more power, I just wanted to put it out there that Nintendo won't be completely out of it to where it's closer to current gen than next gen.

 

[function]

560ti is around 250$, iirc, and would likely be lower if there hadn't been a delay in this year's gpu fall offerings. To me high end is $300+ gpus, particularly the $500-600 range

Then to you 99% of the PC graphics market mustn't even exist!

 

[steampoweredgod]

Then to you 99% of the PC graphics market mustn't even exist!

Really 560 models can even be found at or near 200$, and as I said would very likely be lower if we'd have gotten fall gpu updates that happened to be postponed to early next year. I've not checked the distribution of sales, but certainly $200 to $200-300 should be considered midrange. $100-200 still offers some performance, and below $100 would be pushing. IF most have old pcs, low budget pcs, etc that's another issue.

 

[homerdog]

No guys I'm sticking to my guns here. GTX460 is midrange, 560Ti is the very top of the midrange or bottom of highend, and stuff above that is high end, very high end, and super high end. No way a $200 GPU is low end, that's silly. Or maybe you guys are all super rich.

Same with the CPU. i3-2100 is a midrange processor, i5 series is high end, i7 is super high end. Keep in mind there is little performance difference between i5 and i7 despite the major price discrepancy.
Don't let the i3-2100's dual core nature fool you. It outperforms most AMD quad cores in many things, gaming included.

 

[msia2k75]

No guys I'm sticking to my guns here. GTX460 is midrange, 560Ti is the very top of the midrange or bottom of highend, and stuff above that is high end, very high end, and super high end. No way a $200 GPU is low end, that's silly. Or maybe you guys are all super rich.

Same with the CPU. i3-2100 is a midrange processor, i5 series is high end, i7 is super high end. Keep in mind there is little performance difference between i5 and i7 despite the major price discrepancy.
Don't let the i3-2100's dual core nature fool you. It outperforms most AMD quad cores in many things, gaming included.

I somehow feel that way.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Same with the CPU. i3-2100 is a midrange processor, i5 series is high end, i7 is super high end. Keep in mind there is little performance difference between i5 and i7 despite the major price discrepancy.
Don't let the i3-2100's dual core nature fool you. It outperforms most AMD quad cores in many things, gaming included.

super high end? you're now making up your own categories to fit your characterization of a $100 processor. What do you call the extreme editions? superduper really awesome enthusiast high end? You sound like a fast food joint where the smallest drink you can buy is a medium.

 

[function]

Really 560 models can even be found at or near 200$, and as I said would very likely be lower if we'd have gotten fall gpu updates that happened to be postponed to early next year. I've not checked the distribution of sales, but certainly $200 to $200-300 should be considered midrange. $100-200 still offers some performance, and below $100 would be pushing. IF most have old pcs, low budget pcs, etc that's another issue.

I don't see "low budget" as being a separate issue. Besides, you have to spend a stupid amount of money to even get something with a 6850 in it, and only a tiny proportion of PC owners build their own machine or even upgrade the graphics card in a ready made system.

If you want to talk about price, then sure $300 is mid range in a $0 - $600 range. However, if you actually look at the market for PCs or even for PCs that will be used for games, then Intel integrated graphics is mainstream, Llano is top end mainstream and anything else is a bonus. When Gabe Newell stood on-stage at the Sandybridge launch talking about Sandybridge offering the complete console experience thanks to its integrated graphics he knew exactly what he was doing.

The 460, 560 and 580 are squeezed into the top 1% of PCs. PC hardware nuts seem to see the market like this:

High end: 580 GTX
Mid range: 560 Ti
Low end: 460 Ti
Shame: GTS 450
Bottom end: GT 440
No seriously bottom end: GT 430
None existent: Fast Llano
Blank screen: Slow Llano
Death: Core i5
Hell: The other i5s
Satan: Xbox

 

[AlphaWolf]

The 460, 560 and 580 are squeezed into the top 1% of PCs.

According to who?

Certainly not if you look at a steam survey.

 

[homerdog]

You sound like a fast food joint where the smallest drink you can buy is a medium.

That's actually a great analogy. The PC hardware has really gotten that way in recent years.

 

[function]

According to who?

Certainly not if you look at a steam survey.

According to the Steam survey hardly anyone uses integrated graphics.

Take a look on Amazon, on the Dell website, look in the supermarket where they have huge piles of PCs and laptops selling big numbers. Look at Macs. Just basically look anywhere. Look for PCs with a 460 or better.

Search PCs by popularity on Amazon when you have a spare moment. Go on, it's a laugh!

 

[TheChefO]

According to the Steam survey hardly anyone uses integrated graphics.

Take a look on Amazon, on the Dell website, look in the supermarket where they have huge piles of PCs and laptops selling big numbers. Look at Macs. Just basically look anywhere. Look for PCs with a 460 or better.

Search PCs by popularity on Amazon when you have a spare moment. Go on, it's a laugh!

I think the difference here is intent:

For a gaming pc...

Integrated graphics isn't enough.
$100 cpu or gpu is low end
$200 cpu or gpu is mid range
$300 cpu or gpu is high end


For a everyday pc, a core i3 is plenty .. in fact, it's overkill for most users.

 

[function]

I think the difference here is intent:

For a gaming pc...

Integrated graphics isn't enough.
$100 cpu or gpu is low end
$200 cpu or gpu is mid range
$300 cpu or gpu is high end


For a everyday pc, a core i3 is plenty .. in fact, it's overkill for most users.

I think you're right, but I also think that the definition of "gaming PC" is growing fast. That's thanks to browser based games and things like the Sims, and also the big jump in integrated graphics. The fastest Llano models are console beaters, and even the better i5 integrated stuff will let you enjoy a pretty good game Portal 2.

Llano would be be a game changer if AMD could make the damn thing, and Ivy Bridge graphics should be approaching console level and will be force fed to almost everyone. Combined with the gaming push that MS are expected to make with Windows 8, I think (hope) that the idea of a "gaming PC" as something with a discrete graphics card will be changed permanently!