Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
- Thread starter Acert93
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I remember a figure of either 25 or 30W, but I don't know whether that included the daughter die. And I can't find a reference to that anywhere now, so maybe I've spent the last few years with false memory.
That seems far too low to me considering the number of transistors and the 90nm process. I'd be interested if you could find that reference though.
upnorthsox
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Oh I'm pretty certain their 22nm will be outstanding, it just isn't here yet!
TSMC has been producing top end GPU's for nvidia and ATI for years ... and now AMD will be looking to TSMC for 28nm APU's:
I think you're grasping at straws:
AMD certainly won't be requiring as much volume production as Nintendo will either. Reserving fab capacity so early will not be cheap in any way.
AMD and nVidia board partners at least have the advantage of being able to sell GPU cards for hundreds of dollars alone making the investment considerably less risky and much higher margin in H1 2012, but again, they aren't even selling a million top-of-the-line GPUs at launch.
AMD 32nm quad core 1.45 Billion transistor Fusion processor @ 1.9-2.6GHz 45watts (228mm^2)
http://products.amd.com/pages/notebookapudetail.aspx?id=12&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Again, I expect a much less complex cpu for xb720 ( 1/3rd the size and on 28nm instead of 32nm), but it is another example of what is possible.
http://products.amd.com/pages/notebookapudetail.aspx?id=12&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Again, I expect a much less complex cpu for xb720 ( 1/3rd the size and on 28nm instead of 32nm), but it is another example of what is possible.
That is not directly applicable to the console market. One SKU happens to meet those requirements, with many other price brackets requiring double the power.
This wouldn't be a surprise as AMD are JUST NOW switching gears and going with TSMC for their APU's.
If Sony/MS has intent on launching in 2012, I'm sure they were already in the planning phases with TSMC and have made the necessary arrangements.
As for not being cheap, neither is launching a console late.
Both Sony and MS know what's at stake and will act accordingly to the known risk/reward.
As far as Nintendo's volume needs, I wouldn't worry too much about it as the chipset will be small and the demand for such a device at this point is questionable.
Never said it was.
Hence, my statement regarding different process node and projected 1/3rd die size ....
Note that they will first have to redo the chip layout for TSMC. I'd be surprised if they can get their first chips out of the fab before next Autumn.
upnorthsox
Veteran
I think you misread my post, I was talking cpu's. Yes AMD might move some apu work to TSMC but when MS went to an apu with Valhalla they went with Chartered which means that TSMC is not making anything for consoles at the moment.
None of this may have much to do with 28nm though per se, Samsung, GloFo, IBM, and NEC, have already ramped up for 28nm production so what happens at TSMC with 28nm may have little/no impact on what happens with new consoles.
Meanwhile...
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/2011112702_Ivy_Bridge_desktop_CPU_lineup_details_part_II.html
Even that 2 core 4 thread Core i5-3470T will be blisteringly fast and tiny with a 35W TDP. The competition will need (probably a lot) more silicon and more power to match that.
They even have the 4 core 8 thread Core i7-3770T at 45W ! Sure it is a binned chip but a console CPU could cut out a lot of the stuff (most notably the entire IGP...) and probably get a consistent 45W without relying on strict binning.
Still I don't expect Intel in a next-gen console, but we can dream.
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/2011112702_Ivy_Bridge_desktop_CPU_lineup_details_part_II.html
Even that 2 core 4 thread Core i5-3470T will be blisteringly fast and tiny with a 35W TDP. The competition will need (probably a lot) more silicon and more power to match that.
They even have the 4 core 8 thread Core i7-3770T at 45W ! Sure it is a binned chip but a console CPU could cut out a lot of the stuff (most notably the entire IGP...) and probably get a consistent 45W without relying on strict binning.
Still I don't expect Intel in a next-gen console, but we can dream.
LightHeaven
Regular
Kinect doesn't include the PrimeSense processor, but does include a number of other processors who's function has never been described (motion tracking the user might be one of them). Kinect uses some CPU and GPU. Remind yourselves here.
I believe it does, the algorithm that translate the light coded image into depth information is run on a prime sense cpu.
Kinect was supposed to have another cpu other than that, designed by Ms, to do the actual skeletal processing, and it also does have another cpu, just isn't doing the skeletal processing.
You can see the teardown here:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft-Kinect-Teardown/4066/2
Kinect has a Marvel SoC, as well the PrimeSense PS1080-A2 processor. Which, if you go through the prime sense reference design (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/03/primesensor_block_diagram.gif ) It's the same bar the A2 in the name, instead of A1.
AMD also has a 45watt quad core with (better) IGP.
Binned of course.
Point is:
MS/Sony will have no problem getting at or under 40watts @ 28nm with a ~500m Transistor next-gen CPU.
Um, AMD 45W quad core is nowhere near the performance level of a SNB quad, much less IvyBridge. And we aren't really interested in the IGP part of it (I think?).
I did not know that was the point. I have never argued about such a thing..?
My point was simply that, with a given silicon and power budget, Intel is capable of creating a better CPU than anybody else. It's a combination of their superior design and manufacturing prowess.
Intel's penchant for making huge amounts of money and maintaining high margins pretty much precludes them from being an option for a console, but I would have thought the same thing back with the Xbox 1.
upnorthsox
Veteran
A 500m transistor CPU? I didn't know you were being so generous. Then:
2 x 165 mil Xenon + 20% OoO + 15% expanded cache = 445 mil
If I'm high on my OoO and cache %'s you could possibly even add 12mb of L3 edram (1mb x 12 threads) and still make 500 mil tranny's.
I still don't see it under 40W though.
And for this thorough derailment, I deserve a lashing!
My only intent with introducing the intel comp was to show what is possible to meet a 40watt TDP in a nextgen console.
I don't expect Intel to be interested in selling their IP, nor do I expect them to sell their chips cheap enough to make sense for Sony/MS.
Apologies to all for this senseless derailment.
Again, 40watt TDP is very reasonable for a next-gen cpu on 28nm.
Unless of course Sony goes all-in with a monster Cell!! Would make for an interesting contrast...
And yet again, what Intel can do most (no-one) others can't.
And yet again, AMD 45watt 32nm 4core Fusion 1.5b trans
You mean the one that is far weaker than anything Intel has?
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