Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[ERP]

I think nintendo knows they need to put a halfway decent system out this time. They wont have any inovative things with this system like the wii mote

FWIW I don't think this is true.
Now I don't know but I suspect that Nintendo will not launch a new console without a hook/gimmick.
They are the least capable of succeeding with the Bigger Better Faster mantra.

 

[liolio]

I can't wait for the Wii 2 and the wiimote plus 2

 

[Squilliam]

I can't really see Nintendo abandoning their current ideals of a cheap low power box in the next generation, the only real difference being that their next box will be considerably more up to date with modern technology standards than the previous generation. Since they were successful with such a strategy likely in their perception especially, they would probably feel that continuing with it would be their best bet. At this point ARM is the champion of low power systems and given the expected timeframe I don't think this will change in the interim. I suspect that we will hate the Nintendo box if it is announced last whilst if it is announced first it will maintain only a basic level of curiosity as we here are technology freaks in more ways than one. So the real question isn't whether they win us over with the box, it's whether they release something else along with the box like 3D which does win us over.

 

[msia2k75]

some of the llanos are at 65W which isn't much considering the power they offer compared to the zacates

I think nintendo knows they need to put a halfway decent system out this time. They wont have any inovative things with this system like the wii mote


Llano with 1-2 gigs of ram will be cheap , still have a low thermal /power rating and will most likely allow them to get lowered verisons of the xbox 3 and ps3 ports


I doubt the wii hd will launch this year , i suspect a late 2012 launch is most likely. AMD should have 28nm /22nm during that time frame ready to go. So nintendo could really get a 45w or lower llano . I believe that is less power draw than even the xbox 360 s so they should be able to make quite a small case for it

Llano is defintely too big for them.

 

[mrcorbo]

I've been wondering whether there would be an advantage to coupling a CPU/GPU combo chip a la Fusion or Project Denver with a dedicated GPU chip in a next-generation console design. The eventual goal being with process improvements to bring all of the processing elements onto a single die, but allowing for more power in the initial design than a single-chip solution would be able to provide. The "local" GPU elements would be designed to share resources with the CPU elements and code would be able to explicitly target whether local or off-die GPU elements should be used for execution.

Now I'm counting on all of the forumers with a deeper understanding of these concepts to tell me why this idea is unfeasible, unnecessary or just plain dumb.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I still expect a seperate CPU/GPU combination even for Wii's successor. I like PowerPC and Nintendo has had a good relationship with IBM since the Dolphin days back in 1999. I don't expect Nintendo to use Fusion or Project Denver since they're both unproven technologies, and Denver is years away from market.

 

[mikiex]

I still expect a seperate CPU/GPU combination even for Wii's successor. I like PowerPC and Nintendo has had a good relationship with IBM since the Dolphin days back in 1999. I don't expect Nintendo to use Fusion or Project Denver since they're both unproven technologies, and Denver is years away from market.

You could say they have a good relationship with ATI and so now AMD. Intergrating is cheaper so I would expect them do this if possible. To say Fusion is unproven is a bit harsh there are years of knowlege and evolution behind it, its not something crazy like the sony would do.

 

[Blazkowicz]

I agree that Fusion is not unproved. on the AMD side you have just a GPU evolved from the radeon 2900 with mature drivers, and on the rest of the market, every PDA phone, tablet and any recent consumer Intel CPU is something similar.

I'm more worried about memory bandwith, for it to be good I believe nintendo should launch with ddr4, that would allow decent graphics on an integrated cpu/gpu with a 64bit bus.
if the CPU part is a quad bobcat that's a nice poor man's xbox 360.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Multiple sources have confirmed to Game Informer that Nintendo will reveal a new console between now and E3 2011 in June.

Game Informer's sources say the console is capable of running games at "HD resolutions," though it is unclear whether not it will be as powerful as Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Our sources have said the console's power will be greater than or equal to the PlayStation 3. Nintendo is reportedly showing the console to publishers to garner interest for a late 2012 launch.

Sources tell IGN that Nintendo will release a pre-announcement this month with a full reveal expected at E3. Sources say the console will be backwards compatible with current Wii software.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/116/1161875p1.html


Interesting, to say the very least.

 

[Mobius1aic]

I agree that Fusion is not unproved. on the AMD side you have just a GPU evolved from the radeon 2900 with mature drivers, and on the rest of the market, every PDA phone, tablet and any recent consumer Intel CPU is something similar.

I'm more worried about memory bandwith, for it to be good I believe nintendo should launch with ddr4, that would allow decent graphics on an integrated cpu/gpu with a 64bit bus.
if the CPU part is a quad bobcat that's a nice poor man's xbox 360.

I don't think Nintendo would be so foolish to build a system that only has around 14 GB/s of bandwidth for both the CPU and GPU. Llano uses two 64 bit memory controllers, and I wonder if it's readily modifiable to go with GDDR5. If so, it's pretty much mandatory to go that route since the bandwidth should be in the 60 GB/s arena, certainly enough room for a quad core CPU and 400 SP class AMD graphics processor to have some breathing room. Ideally, 60 GB/s would be best for that class of GPU by itself, but considering that the x86 cores on Llano by themselves would probably not use anymore than a quarter of that bandwidth at any moment, though a shared load going across the bus is going to burden the hell out of those memory controllers.

I think I remember seeing tests on AM3 CPUs with AM2+ and AM3 motherboards in order to test how going from DDR2 to DDR3 effected their computing capacity. IIRC going from DDR2-1066 to up to DDR3-1600 didn't yield too much an improvement, the test was still CPU bound. Being Stars based, I don't expect Llano's main processors to be much of a burden either.

 

[Rangers]

I kind of figured Nintendo would go back to the hardcore.

What this essentially means is the far more interesting Ps4/Xbox 3 now are going to be pushed out a lot faster. The most powerful system always wins (given enough time) and a new more powerful box always forces the other competitors to upgrade, because well if they dont, the more powerful box will eat up the market.

So I'd say what this ensures is PS4/Xbox 3 now have a hard date of more like 2013-2014, rather than a open ended maybe never type date.

Nintendo has to know Sony and MS are just going to leapfrog them again, though.

This also introduces imo the increasing possibility of staggered console cycles, rather than all competitors coming out within a year. Whats to stop Wii2 in 2012, PS4/xbox3 in 2014, and then Wii3 leapfrogging them again in 2016? It's something I've thought about. I dont like the idea.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

http://wii.ign.com/articles/116/1161875p1.html


Interesting, to say the very least.

So not aiming for the best of this gen, XB360 level performance?





Sounds like they're lowballing it again, so they must have faith in a new attraction to differentiate, or just riding the Wii brand by offering existing users a direct upgrade path - although that didn't work too well for Sony so I'd caution against it.

Edit: Your quote doesn't match the linked article, which says the console is more powerful than this gen and Nintendo want the hardcore again. While the GameInformer article says reports are conflicting.

 

[jonabbey]

Yeah, this will upset the apple cart a bit, for sure. Sony and MS will be able to coast for a bit with their large libraries providing inertia, but they'll have to move things up.

Depending on how far the new Nintendo box exceeds the current consoles spec-wise, of course.

I wonder what Sony and Microsoft will be doing at this year's E3? Sony can chat up NGP, but that's at least somewhat old news at this point, and I haven't heard any news leaks from MS..

 

[Entropy]

The most powerful system always wins (given enough time) and a new more powerful box always forces the other competitors to upgrade, because well if they dont, the more powerful box will eat up the market.

I'm not sure this assertion is true in any sense (The XBOX360 even launched before the Wii, and I doubt it will win anyway at any time), but the "given enough time" qualifier kills it for sure.
Launching at 28nm would allow Nintendo to stay lower on the technology/power draw/cost curve, and still produce something that is capable of excellent visuals compared to its PS3/XBOX360 competition, if they so desire.
The problem for armchair observers is that you can't predict just what Nintendos gambit will be this time around. As others here, I doubt they will abandon their compact/cool/quiet ethos, but until they actually present their new console, we're all just guessing.
My guess is a couple of embedded PPC cores on the same die as the graphics, and that the graphics will be at roughly AMD "Turks" (6670) level of performance, hopefully coupled to 128-bit GDDR5. But I only believe that because it could conceivably squeeze in below 20W at 28nm at lower clocks while still handling 1080p.
What would be _really_ interesting would be if they went with PowerVR6, i.e. go with an architecture that would allow the console a completely new stationary/mobile future. But that probably wouldn't play nice with backwards compatibility.

 

[Teasy]

Apparently its significantly more powerful then PS3 and has an HD screen on the controller.

 

[DeadlyNinja]

I think their next controller is far more interesting than tech. The biggest problem with the Wiimote is that it's too custom tailored to be weird to work well with genre's like fighting games. I want to see their next controller incorporate refined Wiimote tech plus the ability to play more traditional games without having to buy another controller.

Also, wouldn't the Wii2 or whatever have to be more powerful than the PS3/360 if they want HD? There's a reason those consoles are called Sub-HD.

I hope they focus on frame rate too. 720p @ 60fps dammit!

 

[onQ]

Sony patent application reveals universal, LCD-based game controller

could it be that all 3 of the new consoles will be using a LCD based controller next gen?

 

[AlphaWolf]

I don't see that replacing current controllers

 

[Refreshment]

Posted this early in console forum but i think this is a better thread for disscussion.

A screen on the controler? The only use i could thing for doing such a thing is for a dynamically configurable button array.

What's the name of those screens? Haptic feedback tactile screens i think. Been curious about this technology for years but havent researched enough. Maybe someone with more knowledge could share his opinions on how practical this might be. Last time i checked the tech was in experimental stages and very expensive. But this way it would allow the user to know what´s pressing without looking at the touch screen.

Anyone has experience with the basic vibrating feedback of those Alpine radious or "smart" phones. How does that feels?

Also heard, going by memory, so i don't know how exact the information is. Some researches that came up with a silicon layer for a touch screen. The layer can be controlled to "inflate" in specific position simulating a button feedback.

Also for those interested recomend checking this page:
http://senseg.com/technology/senseg-technology
http://senseg.com/experience/senseg-demos

Edit: But never mind this seems way out there to be aplied massivley to a consumers product like a controller at this stage intime. Still interested in hear opinions from the forumers about what "good" applications a normal touch screen in a controller could provide.

If LCD were to replace buttons Sony would have been really dumb not to make its NGP more of a ... Slate

I don't think anyone is his right mind is specting to substitute all the buttons of a controller with a touch screen
Even less logic considering its one of the limiting factors for gaming in touch only devices.

NGP would be the "ultimate" in traditional console controller design if the cost barrier could be surpassed.

 

[liolio]

If LCD were to replace buttons Sony would have been really dumb not to make its NGP more of a ... Slate