Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

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For the Wii HD.....

I predict Nintendo is going to use mobile components for the Wii HD/Wii 2. Nintendo have a great working relationship with ARM since the GBA days - plus it allows them to make something that's tiny and radiates little heat or noise. Its probably going to be powered by a multi-core Arm Cortex running at 1ghz to 2.5GHz. Coupled with an Nvidia or ATI SOC GPU and up to 1 gig of RAM.

That's reasonable power for 720p in 3D. The Arm chip could mean some compatibility with the DS line.
 
A lot of this is already possible with current hardware I think, as long as clever streaming algorithms are used. I think what is probably holding back this type of game design more is that a) it is harder to direct awesome moments (though emerging gameplay can produce those, but how to make sure that a reviewer doesn't miss them?) and more importantly b) many devs can't handle the QA requirements for it. You need to take QA into account when designing your game day one, or you'll run into trouble as you can't exhaustively test every possible scenario.

Well, Oblivion (& Fallout 3 and Skyrim) had Radiant AI, where AI behaviours would emerge depending on their needs and personalities:

"We've really gotten much better at this," Howard says when discussing the living world of Oblivion. "We're really focusing this time on how people in the world react to you, because that's the most fulfilling thing about being good or bad or in-between." The game sports a new "Radiant AI" system that Howard says is best described as a combination of Ultima 7 and The Sims. Rather than following pre-scripted paths, every NPC is given a set of general goals they'd like to achieve, but the details of fulfilling that goal is entirely up to them. If a citizen is hungry, they'll look for a way to get food. They might buy food, hunt it, or steal it, then find a place to sit to eat and so on. This means that every one of the game's 1,000 NPCs follows a full 24/7 schedule that continues whether or not the player is there to witness it. It also means that the NPCs react to each other, so a townsperson who decides to steal a loaf of bread in full view of the guards may find himself under arrest.

It also means that everything the player does in the game that's witnessed by NPCs is processed and remembered by them, who will then use that information to decide how to react to you. Interactions are governed by what the player has done to them, what groups or guilds they're both a member of, whether the player has messed with anyone in their family and what their general reputation in the Empire is. Players who just watch the NPCs going about their daily lives will often witness townsfolk in unscripted dynamic conversations gossiping about what's going on in the kingdom and what rumors and news is currently hot.

In fact, one of the interesting problems that the team has had to face came about precisely because the AI is so good. According to Howard, the AI has caused guards to decide to eat and go hunting deer, only to get themselves arrested for attacking something. When they fight back against the arresting guard, the other guards see a fight and try to join in. In not too much time, every guard in the town was involved in the scuffle, which left the rest of the town open to thievery by other NPCs, resulting in empty stores. Much of the team's current effort is going into putting sensible governors on the AI's behavior to avoid situations like empty stores that would result in situations that wouldn't be fun for the player.
http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion/558955p4.html

However it was vastly watered down for the final release as it proved to be a QA nightmare with the AI breaking the game

Funny example: In one Dark Brotherhood quest, you can meet up with this shady merchant who sells skooma. During testing, the NPC would be dead when the player got to him. Why? NPCs from the local skooma den were trying to get their fix, didn't have any skooma, and were killing the merchant to get it!
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http://www.bitmob.com/articles/dimming-the-radiant-ai-in-oblivion
 
http://www.microsoft-careers.com/jo...ncipal-IEB-MGS-(750949)-Job-WA-98052/1198100/

- Specifically deliver prototypes for the following scenarios:

- Cloud-connected experiences for content streaming, rendering, and remote computational resources.

- Multiplayer scaling up to MMO scale experiences.

- Performance (visual and computational) validation of future generation platforms.

- Future generation Core + Kinect scenarios.

- Business intelligence and analytics for future generation content experiences.
 
Looks like Microsoft is exploring the OnLive approach for next gen as well as designing a box.

Yeah the main issue with AI programming is that it's much easier at this point to script what you want something to do then to get the AI to do it for you. AI programming still has a long way to go in general.
 
Looks like Microsoft is exploring the OnLive approach for next gen as well as designing a box.

Yeah the main issue with AI programming is that it's much easier at this point to script what you want something to do then to get the AI to do it for you. AI programming still has a long way to go in general.
I wonder if they are considering the possibility for windows mobile devices to play the same games as their next box.
 
I wonder if they are considering the possibility for windows mobile devices to play the same games as their next box.

One think i don´t understand about on live gaming is where are the chips processing the games and how much it would cost?. Isn´t cheaper for a company to make people pay for the CPUs and GPUs that allocate them in their servers?.
 
One think i don´t understand about on live gaming is where are the chips processing the games and how much it would cost?. Isn´t cheaper for a company to make people pay for the CPUs and GPUs that allocate them in their servers?.
Well it's cheaper but a company may have other goals. Ms may favored the long term revenues of subscription and they may be in search for a leveler to make them a more relevant player in the mobility market which bigger than the traditional gaming market.
the nice thing about subscription is that once people agreed to pay they don't go back that often.

But I don't know I'm trying to bend the information we got in a way that would make sense.
 
For the Wii HD.....

I predict Nintendo is going to use mobile components for the Wii HD/Wii 2. Nintendo have a great working relationship with ARM since the GBA days - plus it allows them to make something that's tiny and radiates little heat or noise. Its probably going to be powered by a multi-core Arm Cortex running at 1ghz to 2.5GHz. Coupled with an Nvidia or ATI SOC GPU and up to 1 gig of RAM.

That's reasonable power for 720p in 3D. The Arm chip could mean some compatibility with the DS line.

I hope not.

I want Wii 2 / Wii HD / Wii successor to use an IBM PowerPC quad core and AMD graphics. Not scaled up version of 3DS/ARM/PICA200. I want 1080p resolution in more games than currend HD consoles.
 
I hope not.

I want Wii 2 / Wii HD / Wii successor to use an IBM PowerPC quad core and AMD graphics. Not scaled up version of 3DS/ARM/PICA200. I want 1080p resolution in more games than currend HD consoles.

Wii HD will target PS3/360 range of processing power and nothing more really. Using the less amount of silicon possible. We're talking about Nintendo after all. :LOL:
 
That's not a fair assessment. Low performance parts worked for them with GB, DS somewhat, and Wii, but Nintendo have produced plenty of higher spec devices too in NES, SNES and N64. And the handhelds benefited from low power in having long battery life, which counts for a lot in a handheld. There's probably as good an argument for them to hit the upper end of the power envelope this time around and offer a potent next-gen experience a year or two ahead of the rest, as there is a more conservative, penny-pinching approach.
 
Well, Oblivion (& Fallout 3 and Skyrim) had Radiant AI, where AI behaviours would emerge depending on their needs and personalities:


http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion/558955p4.html

However it was vastly watered down for the final release as it proved to be a QA nightmare with the AI breaking the game

.

http://www.bitmob.com/articles/dimming-the-radiant-ai-in-oblivion

aren't their ways around this that don't take much more than scripting. for example in the example the skooba could be invisible to NPCs or the guy with it in a no go zone.
 
aren't their ways around this that don't take much more than scripting. for example in the example the skooba could be invisible to NPCs or the guy with it in a no go zone.

Yes, but it's too much work testing everything in the game when you think about the amount of actions that could potentially result in game breaking behaviour, especially in Elder Scroll titles which are absolutely huge and have a level of world interaction most other RPGs don't have.
 
That's not a fair assessment. Low performance parts worked for them with GB, DS somewhat, and Wii, but Nintendo have produced plenty of higher spec devices too in NES, SNES and N64. And the handhelds benefited from low power in having long battery life, which counts for a lot in a handheld. There's probably as good an argument for them to hit the upper end of the power envelope this time around and offer a potent next-gen experience a year or two ahead of the rest, as there is a more conservative, penny-pinching approach.

My guess is a 4 core enhanced Bobcat (Krishna) @roughly 2GHz with 27MB 1T-SRAM (integrated) and 1GB DDR3-RAM (I would hope for 2 Gigs but as we know Nintendo's RAMphobia it will not happen). Die shrinked Broadway for Wii compability, Hollywood may be emulated (would allow upscaling). Release next year.
 
My guess is a 4 core enhanced Bobcat (Krishna) @roughly 2GHz with 27MB 1T-SRAM (integrated) and 1GB DDR3-RAM (I would hope for 2 Gigs but as we know Nintendo's RAMphobia it will not happen). Die shrinked Broadway for Wii compability, Hollywood may be emulated (would allow upscaling). Release next year.

do they really need to put in any of the old parts if they are going with a krishna set up ?

anyway i still think we will see at the very least a Llano set up from nintendo
 
do they really need to put in any of the old parts if they are going with a krishna set up ?

anyway i still think we will see at the very least a Llano set up from nintendo

ad 1) If you think it would be possible to emulate them in software than probably not

ad 2) I would think so too if the power draw wouldn't be 65W+ in comparison to the Wii's 19W which is right next to the Zacate's 18W. Llano is already on 32nm so I think it won't be in the position to lower it in big numbers until next year.
 
some of the llanos are at 65W which isn't much considering the power they offer compared to the zacates

I think nintendo knows they need to put a halfway decent system out this time. They wont have any inovative things with this system like the wii mote


Llano with 1-2 gigs of ram will be cheap , still have a low thermal /power rating and will most likely allow them to get lowered verisons of the xbox 3 and ps3 ports


I doubt the wii hd will launch this year , i suspect a late 2012 launch is most likely. AMD should have 28nm /22nm during that time frame ready to go. So nintendo could really get a 45w or lower llano . I believe that is less power draw than even the xbox 360 s so they should be able to make quite a small case for it
 
I also think it will come next year, but unfortunately 22nm isn't available at AMD/GF. 28nm will be available next year, but only the Bobcats will be built upon this process. Llano and Bulldozer based successor will be built on 32nm.

We will see, I hope we will here something @ E3.
 
The Wii already has an ARM processor for security/background tasks, perhaps Wii HD should have an ARM doing the same thing, but is powerful enough to run NDS and 3DS games (and perhaps mobile phone games) with minimal porting? With a special cable perhaps it could provide a better measure of symbiosis between it and the 3DS, helping to round out and connect the whole Nintendo ecosystem of gaming.
 
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