Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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Now this is awesome. SSD Controler + 64GB of memory on a single chip made by Sandisk. Perfect for nextgen consoles.
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/01/05/sandisk-shows-single-chip-sata-ssd
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/01/05/sandisk-shows-single-chip-sata-ssd
OK your point is sound. But how about ARM chips getting used on their own merit?
Can IBM really offer more performances per Watt & mm² than what a A15 will? I guess yes but with which R&D cost for the consoles manufacturers?
How about Intel or AMD? I guess the answer is yes again, but I've no clue on prices/cost either.
It's honest questions I don't know simply asking
When I read comments in the handled tech forum quiet some some insiders expect the A15 have a bit higher IPC than bobcat. Bobcat crushes actual console CPUs in this regard.
Do next gen consoles really more than a chip including a good GPU and some A15 cores?
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Now this is awesome. SSD Controler + 64GB of memory on a single chip made by Sandisk. Perfect for nextgen consoles.
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/01/05/sandisk-shows-single-chip-sata-ssd
Yeah and that thing probably only costs $800
Blazkowicz
Legend
I had no idea flash chips got so big!
so I made a quick search and there's even a 128GB one. so I've learnt it's made with chip stacking, lots of layers. well done
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2010/06/18/toshiba-launches-128gb-flash-chip/1
so I made a quick search and there's even a 128GB one. so I've learnt it's made with chip stacking, lots of layers. well done
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2010/06/18/toshiba-launches-128gb-flash-chip/1
Rotating platters
pro: price, create a market for accessories, market bullshit on 1000GB model
con: even 2,5" influence chassis design and internal airflow
Solid
pro: depending on the solution faster than traditional hdd, you can put it everywhere on the mb and use only some pin
con: you cant resell it when soldered on the mb, even with modern and future technologies the top capacities are lower than conventional hdd, price, price, price, price
maybe nextgen lower spec models will have some form of little solid storage as for the 360 4GB, but imho will hardly conquer the top models sku
pro: price, create a market for accessories, market bullshit on 1000GB model
con: even 2,5" influence chassis design and internal airflow
Solid
pro: depending on the solution faster than traditional hdd, you can put it everywhere on the mb and use only some pin
con: you cant resell it when soldered on the mb, even with modern and future technologies the top capacities are lower than conventional hdd, price, price, price, price
maybe nextgen lower spec models will have some form of little solid storage as for the 360 4GB, but imho will hardly conquer the top models sku
I think a little solid state storage on all devices, with the option of HDDs for mass storqage, makes sense. You'd get dependable storage access speeds with low seek times, decreasing costs over time, no high fixed-cost HDD to worry about for your entry level SKU, and the flexibility to offer media services and consumption for those who want it, even at no added cost if you allow people to use existing HDDs in their HDD-free console. Given mobile phones and other CE devices re pushing solid-state capacities up and prices down, 32GBs seems a likely minimum for a console that'll be very cheap within a few years of launch.
Blazkowicz
Legend
incidentally I'm going to have a similar move with my main PC, I'll be using an old 20GB hard drive where I'll install ubuntu (with wine, emulators and the odd linux game). the big and fast 1TB drive will move over to a server.
so the OS and apps will be on the small local drive while additional content (including game) will be on the network, through a gigabit link.
a console could use the SSD for OS, caching and tidbits of data, and load more data from the home NAS or internet connection (that part would better work with fiber to the home).
I believe home NAS might become prevalent, over here a major ISP has started shipping as standard a router/modem/NAS set-top box that includes a 250GB hard drive.
so the OS and apps will be on the small local drive while additional content (including game) will be on the network, through a gigabit link.
a console could use the SSD for OS, caching and tidbits of data, and load more data from the home NAS or internet connection (that part would better work with fiber to the home).
I believe home NAS might become prevalent, over here a major ISP has started shipping as standard a router/modem/NAS set-top box that includes a 250GB hard drive.
Anybody think Nvidia's project Denver ARM chip might have any console implications? If so for who?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4099/nvidias-project-denver-nv-designed-high-performance-arm-core
I guess the obvious guess would be Sony, given they use Nvidia in PS3.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4099/nvidias-project-denver-nv-designed-high-performance-arm-core
I guess the obvious guess would be Sony, given they use Nvidia in PS3.
Doubt it will be a factor in a home console. Maybe a portable.
The portable end already has plenty of ARM implementations for higher end handset graphics (including Tegra). I think a console would make more sense to be honest, but I don't think ARM would be the best solution for the next round, but I can see an ARM core or two in the GPU used like Starlett in the Wii, especially if it's an established GPU already available on the PC market.
I don't expect to see ARM being competitive at the level of performance required for a next gen console, which are probably at least a couple of years out.
brain_stew
Regular
Why not? Microsoft went from an OOO CPU last generation to a very simple IO CPU this generation, and made up for it by packing lots of them on die and clocking them highly. Where's the evidence that they'll go for a much more complex CPU design next generation, especially now that GPUs are becoming more general purpose?
For an efficient console designed around a forward looking workflow, the CPU component needs to be simple enough to be integrated on the GPU die, Intel, AMD and Nvidia are all per-suing this route and its no coincidence. ~6 A15s might may be a decent fit, although they might as well just use simple PowerPC cores in order to retain BC, Xenon is already pretty damn tiny and an expanded design should be able to be integrated on a ~2 billion transistor GPU die, easily enough. Heck, Microsoft have already done just that in the latest 360 revision.
Microsoft (and Sony for that matter) picked whatever IBM convinced them was going to work: The in-order high speed filosofy that IBM also pursued in their Power 6 CPUs. It was clearly a dead end. Each indivudal 360 core isn't small, isn't fast and uses a fair amount of power.
IBM has certainly seen the error of their ways as witnessed by Power 7. Intel, AMD and ARM have moved to the same microarchitural paradigm. Intel with Sandy Bridge, AMD with Bobcat and Bulldozer and ARM with Cortex A9/A15. All use the same physical register file/read after schedule technique, that keeps power consumption of large reorder windows down.
My bet is that we will see a fast low power OOO PPC design in the next 360 with a wide vector extension similar to AVX, - but wider. This gen everybody went from AOS to SOA programming. Once that conceptual step has been taken, we might as well have (multiple) kilobit vector registers.
Cheers
archangelmorph
Veteran
I think they should equip the consoles with an embeded SD chip of like 1gb that is used to store game saves and other user data. Then provide 2 SD slots that the user can install thier own cards into with the ability to run those chips in a raid 0 configuration. The small embeded chip insures that the game saves are protected if a user decides that they need to upgrade the storage capabilities of their console. While the SD slots (protected via a door much like the PS3's HDD drive) allow for greater speed to help offset the increased amount of Ram these new consoles will have to combat the slow media transfer rates afforded by BD and DVD.
Do you realize you just described a 4GB xbox360. Except that it has usb for memory expansion instead of SD.
Alright, that was too strongly worded. Mea culpa.
Let me restate it as: There's a trend towards converting compute intensive algorithms to SOA, - like GPGPU physics engines.
4D vectors is an excellent fit for vertices (XYZW), textures (RGBA) and framebuffers (RGBA), however today we have many more channels for our texture/material system and multiple render-targets, where 4D vectors make less sense.
I still think a wide vector extension in next gen console CPUs is a viable way to increase compute density of your main CPU. You can still stack 4 4D vectors into a 16D register if you want to.
Cheers
Naïve question (Arcangelmorph your insights are welcome too
) if you have a single chip as in Intel SnB or Nvidia Tegra 2, with pretty low communication latency between the CPU and the GPU, could it makes sense to pass on SIMD on the CPU and to rely more on the GPU for those calculations? For the tegra2 Nv states that implementing simd unit would have inflate CPU die size by ~30% hence my question.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Naïve question (Arcangelmorph your insights are welcome too
For the tegra2 Nv states that implementing simd unit would have inflate CPU die size by ~30% hence my question.
you may think I am putting the cart before the horse but shouldn't we be discussing first what features the PS4 should have THEN the hardware to support those features. This is apparently what Sony did with the PS3.
It probably should have the following:
Realtime face, voice, Gesture and body recognition.
Video 4K resolution with 1080P 3-D games.
Audio, 7.1
HDMI 1.4 (Full implementation)
Gigabit Network port
USB 3.0 ports
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