Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[liolio]

Interesting direction AMD have taken with Llano, it is designed to use very little power compared to their other CPU's in the same ballpark (quad core Athlon II's).

My ideal console right now - Llano with a discrete graphics card as well.

That would be a 2084 cores processing monster !!!11!!

4 core CPU
1600 core GPU
480 core integrated GPGPU

As to Bobcat and Bulldozer - will wait for them to be released before commenting. AMD sure like to bake their processors well before releasing them, the damn teasers.

You should stop using "cores" in the same ways as marketers

It's funny but the system you describe is pretty much in philosophy the exact opposite of the one I was trying to describe earlier/

Taking your numbers mine would be :
4 core CPU
1600 cores GPGPU
480 cores GPU

Think an ubber Cell tied to a HD6570/HD6670 class of GPU (hypothetical next gen HD5670/HD5570)

What would be really precious is if Nintendo came out with a next gen platform first. Higher performance, same price as M$/Sony's last generation hardware, same precision on their next generation WiiMote as Move ... so basically vastly superior.

Microsoft and Sony might have to play the waiting game to pump cash from their investments ... but Nintendo doesn't, and hardware has advanced fast enough that it doesn't take expensive silicon to blow away current generation hardware. If Nintendo does this Microsoft and Sony get caught with their pants down they'd be forced to hurry paying the extra cash necessary for getting a package together and creating overly expensive hardware. After they launch Nintendo can then just go back to being the cheapest, where they have no problem earning money now.

Indeed they can take every body it's pant down if they launch sometime during 2011 H2.
The wii will be 5 years old I don't think that casual audience would fell betrayed and they could reclaim to MS and Sony a lot of the hardcore gamer audience. Still they couldn't go the same high margins route they took for the Wii.

 

[Entropy]

What would be really precious is if Nintendo came out with a next gen platform first. Higher performance, same price as M$/Sony's last generation hardware, same precision on their next generation WiiMote as Move ... so basically vastly superior.

Microsoft and Sony might have to play the waiting game to pump cash from their investments ... but Nintendo doesn't, and hardware has advanced fast enough that it doesn't take expensive silicon to blow away current generation hardware. If Nintendo does this Microsoft and Sony get caught with their pants down they'd be forced to hurry paying the extra cash necessary for getting a package together and creating overly expensive hardware. After they launch Nintendo can then just go back to being the cheapest, where they have no problem earning money now.

A reasonable scenario, but lets remember that a 5450 that can only muster 80 shader cores (1/20th of the 5870), draws 13W or so at TSMC 40nm, whereas the complete Wii system at 90nm draws 17W.
Even at 28nm, a 5450 level DX11 GPU would be the outer limit if Nintendo wanted to stay within the power envelope of the Wii. The Wii gets no credit for its miniscule power draw around here, nor is it acknowledged that this was a very fundamental (and constraining) priority for Nintendo.

It may be that they relax the power draw limits of their next generation console considerably. Then again, maybe not. And if they don't, Beyond3D denizens will once again be affronted by a Nintendo design that doesn't cater to their peculiar priorities.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I know quite a few Wii owners, but I've never heard of even one that based his purchase decision on the Wii's power consumption to be honest. After all your tv alone is probably consuming 5-10 times as much.

 

[MfA]

I don't think power is an issue, heatpipes are efficient ... even in a Wii sized box getting rid of a lot more heat with moderate airflow would not be that difficult.

 

[Squilliam]

A reasonable scenario, but lets remember that a 5450 that can only muster 80 shader cores (1/20th of the 5870), draws 13W or so at TSMC 40nm, whereas the complete Wii system at 90nm draws 17W.

Remember they have Fusion CPU Ontario IIRC which draws up to 25W which includes a better GPU than the 5450. They could easily draw up to 40W in the Wii form factor if they package it right. Theres nothing which says they won't/can't use more power.

 

[Mobius1aic]

Anyone else a little peeved about MS treating the new slim model 360 like it's a brand new system. The new version still is limited by 5+ year old technology.

 

[AzBat]

Peeved? LOL Now that's funny. I'm sure the PC tech will have to suffice for you.

Tommy McClain

 

[TheWretched]

Remember they have Fusion CPU Ontario IIRC which draws up to 25W which includes a better GPU than the 5450. They could easily draw up to 40W in the Wii form factor if they package it right. Theres nothing which says they won't/can't use more power.

True... I mean look at Notebooks... they can easily dissipate more heat in a comparable space. And many of those even sport a 5650 Radeon (which draws 15 Watts, according to the paper) and a Core iX with 35 Watts

 

[BadTB25]

Anyone else a little peeved about MS treating the new slim model 360 like it's a brand new system. The new version still is limited by 5+ year old technology.

Happens with every home console that Sony has released so I think we are conditioned with model revisions. Sony has done it a couple of times with the PSP (Phat-2000-3000-Go).

I am happy that there is 360 revision as I've been without one since early May and has hoping for just such an announcement. My only disappointment is the price and that Kinect will not be bundled.
The only detail I'm awaiting is how to transfer my saves, profiles, etc from my old HDD to the new slim HDD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Anyone else a little peeved about MS treating the new slim model 360 like it's a brand new system. The new version still is limited by 5+ year old technology.

No. It's a revision like countless consoles before, and I don't see them treating it as a brand new system. It's not even given a differentiating name like 360 Slim, just being the XB360 250gb.

 

[function]

True... I mean look at Notebooks... they can easily dissipate more heat in a comparable space. And many of those even sport a 5650 Radeon (which draws 15 Watts, according to the paper) and a Core iX with 35 Watts

I wouldn't want a console to make the kind of noise my laptop does when its 31W cpu is under load at full speed. The CPU hits 70 C and the fan cranks up to full speed, at which point it makes an awful racket. The bottom of the laptop gets jolly hot too.

 

[Toaddio]

The only detail I'm awaiting is how to transfer my saves, profiles, etc from my old HDD to the new slim HDD.

I think I saw something about a $20 transfer cable.

 

[Rolf N]

I wouldn't want a console to make the kind of noise my laptop does when its 31W cpu is under load at full speed. The CPU hits 70 C and the fan cranks up to full speed, at which point it makes an awful racket. The bottom of the laptop gets jolly hot too.

The Wii is quite noisy anyway, because of the DVD drive spinning as fast as it does. There's little you can do to insulate that noise in such a small form factor. The little 40mm axial fan (which wouldn't fit in a laptop design, mind) isn't much of a bother itself. They could still scale the cooling up quite a ways before it becomes a problem. 40, 50W in the same size should still work reliably and with acceptable noise levels.

I really don't think the Wii was designed to be low-power as much as it was designed to be cheap. Minus the DVD drive, it doesn't draw any less power sitting idle than it does at full tilt. If power really had been a concern, you'd think they'd enable some sort of dynamic power management, but all evidence speaks to the contrary.

 

[AzBat]

I think I saw something about a $20 transfer cable.

Yeah, it's the same cable I've used to move my Pro data to my Elite. You can get them off eBay pretty cheap, or you could before yesterday's announcement that they will be $20 at retail. LOL BTW, they did say you could also use 2 USB storage devices to move data now that those are supported. Just remember that they only support up to 16gb per device. If you have a full 120gb drive, it could take a lot of swapping.

Tommy McClain

 

[Entropy]

I know quite a few Wii owners, but I've never heard of even one that based his purchase decision on the Wii's power consumption to be honest. After all your tv alone is probably consuming 5-10 times as much.

Err... but it may have helped their decision that the console is tiny and isn't obviously noisy?
Power draw is important, not only in and of itself, but because it dictates other design constraints and ergonomic factors.

Although one might believe that the low power draw of the Wii was a byproduct of other priorities, that is in direct conflict with statements of Nintendo leadership and Wii engineers. I would at least entertain the possibility that what they have explicitly stated about the development priorities of the Wii system is actually a version of the truth. While it could be argued that they could remain true to those priorities with, say, a system that drew 3W at idle, and 40W going full tilt (allowing ATI 5650 ballparkish performance), it could also be that Nintendo prefers to go the other direction. We just don't know. But discussing possible future consoles, and Nintendo in particular, without taking power draw and its implications for the design as a whole into account is pointless.

 

[corduroygt]

I'm curious about how the newly updated mac mini compares to current gen consoles in terms of power. It's certainly small and low power, and has a 48-shader gpu hooked up to a c2d.

 

[TheWretched]

I wouldn't want a console to make the kind of noise my laptop does when its 31W cpu is under load at full speed. The CPU hits 70 C and the fan cranks up to full speed, at which point it makes an awful racket. The bottom of the laptop gets jolly hot too.

That however is true...

 

[BadTB25]

Yeah, it's the same cable I've used to move my Pro data to my Elite. You can get them off eBay pretty cheap, or you could before yesterday's announcement that they will be $20 at retail. LOL BTW, they did say you could also use 2 USB storage devices to move data now that those are supported. Just remember that they only support up to 16gb per device. If you have a full 120gb drive, it could take a lot of swapping.

Tommy McClain

Good news for me then as I only have a 20GB drive that is not completely full. Bad news is that my 360 is dead, so I would need to borrow someones 360 to be able to do the transfer.

 

[Mindfury]

3-D Without the Glasses

Now a new type of lens developed by researchers in Microsoft's Applied Sciences Group could help make glasses-free 3-D displays more practical.

The new lens, which is thinner at the bottom than at the top, steers light to a viewer's eyes by switching light-emitting diodes along its bottom edge on and off. Combined with a backlight, this makes it possible to show different images to different viewers, or to create a stereoscopic (3-D) effect by presenting different images to a person's left and right eye. "What's so special about this lens is that it allows us to control where the light goes," says Steven Bathiche, director of Microsoft's Applied Sciences Group.

Microsoft's prototype display can deliver 3-D video to two viewers at the same time (one video for each individual eye), regardless of where they are positioned. It can also shows ordinary 2-D video to up to four people simultaneously (one video for each person). The 3-D display uses a camera to track viewers so that it knows where to steer light toward them. The lens is also thin, which means it could be incorporated into a standard liquid crystal display, says Bathiche.

Microsoft's wedge lens is about 11 millimeters thick at its top, tapering down to about six millimeters at the bottom. A traditional lens, found in a projector, sits between a point of light and its focal point--the spot where the light is focused. This is the reason why viewer-tracking 3-D systems are often so bulky. The design of the wedge lens bypasses this problem, explains Bathiche. "Instead of having light travel in air, it travels within the lens," he says. "It allows us to compress the distance between the projector and the screen."

 

[liolio]

3-D Without the Glasses

Interesting but I don't see how Ms could leverage this in home console space.
Or the next box could looks like this: