Sony yes assuming they never cut the 8th spu out of the design yields should be good enough they could enable it for newer consoles. Overclocking would not be good though for any system as the shrinks are designed for power not clock headroom and overclocking would put increased heat into a case not designed for it.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
- Thread starter Acert93
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They did, I mean Ms did back to launch time xenos was an overclocked part hence the failure rate...
Svensk Viking
Regular
Better performance in what area?
However, these machines were built to a budget, and all in all they're looking pretty balanced to me. PS3's is somewhat screwed with the broken scaler. Tiling hasn't worked out how we hoped on XB360. Still, the machines don't appear starved in one particular aspect unlike maybe last gen. XB was bandwidth starved. PS3 was RAM starved.
A better, more specific, question would perhaps have been what the developers often see as the bottleneck for the consoles
I may not be a tech head, but I do know that CPU, GPU, RAM each play their part in performance, so sorry that I wasn't that specific
For reference, Crytek said previous to Crysis' release, that the CPU and GPU were fine, but the RAM was too small
So a better GPU would still make it better, despite other component's shortcomings?
I think (while drunk) that the "next gen consoles" will take the "wii route", only moderately increasing the actual hardware capabilities (probably going on DX11+ level GPU hardware though), and concentrate on other functions of the console, like controllers.
I seriously think that Wii gave a good lesson for both Sony and Microsoft.
I seriously think that Wii gave a good lesson for both Sony and Microsoft.
I am putting serious money in stocks for duct tape companies. I tell you next gen will be a gold mine for me.
See you on my private Island 2015.
What is more VRAM/RAM better for when GPU cant process all the pixels fast enough. It's not like if you got 2GB (V)RAM more then you can upp texture res from 512x512 to 2048x2048 perfomance free. More RAM to hold more geometry, higher res buffers.. well you need something more potent to create those higher res buffers, more geometry etc.
But without the RAM bandwidth, those GPU processors are going to be stalling often. Pick an example GPU it'd be nice to see in a next-gen console, and tell me how much BW it has. Then tell me how well it'd do on a 20GB/s console bus.
I still say procedural generation is underused this cycle but it will not be the case next gen.
There are many details which will be expected as improvements over this gen but dev houses/publishers won't want to pay for them ... enter: procedural generation.
Texture detail, geometry detail, etc. Also, I see further use of quality voice acting and film quality camera work. Script and writers as well.
Games are becoming capable of being real alternatives to other mediums of entertainment and the lacking elements are becoming obvious.
What technical achievements will be necessary?
A bit of cpu power to process the content as well as ram and GPu would be my guess.
:smile:
I was curious about something. Does anyone know whether GPU style vapour chamber cooling/shroud cooling would be compatible with the needs of cooling console chips? Also would that be a cost effective solution to having a cool, quiet console in the order of 100W TDP?
The PS3 slim essentially uses a giant slot cooler.
Seems to do the job, though the fan can get loud at times in my Slim.
Here's a picture showing the heatpipe and contacting surface to the CPU and GPU.
Heat pipes+fans are standard in laptops, and considering that many mobile GPUs are 2,3, and even 4 times more powerful than what's in the 360 or PS3, it's obvious that >100W is doable in a console, especially if next gen means systems that are improved versions of what we already have like the Wii, not full evolutions. We only have to look at laptops to see it's certainly capable in a very space constrained system. In 4 or so years with the next crop of systems, a 1080p centric system using the similar parts as a current higher end laptop like this would be quite easy under 70W especially with only 1 or 2 GB GDDR5 unified RAM as opposed to 1 GB GDDR5 + 4 GB DDR3-1066, and most especially without the LCD.
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Thats pretty good. So I guess they can get away with something enclosed like that. It makes sense they would use in on a Slim(er) Xbox 360 as well given they would need to reorientate the fan.
TheWretched
Regular
The original 60GB PS3 used 6 or 8 heatpipes and a freaking huge (12 or 14 cm) fan for cooling. And it used up to 200Watts (whole system) on load.
As there are SLI Laptops with GTX285M which have a TDP of 75 Watts EACH, plus a CPU having over 50 Watts easily in a "small" form factor (height x width x depth (in mm): 70 x 440 x 300), I don't see a problem with consoles either.
As there are SLI Laptops with GTX285M which have a TDP of 75 Watts EACH, plus a CPU having over 50 Watts easily in a "small" form factor (height x width x depth (in mm): 70 x 440 x 300), I don't see a problem with consoles either.
Blazkowicz
Legend
but a lower power console is nice for a console viewed as a no-worry box (like the Wii).
I'm not sure gigantism is desired next-gen : storage and memory budget are a concern, and current CPU and GPU midrange offerings hint at a very decent possible upgrade. /edit : that laptop that Mobius1aic linked to, with an underclocked i7 and a low-midrange AMD GPU is a great example, down to the HDD.
I believe keeping it just under 100 watts would be desirable. a 200W console with 2GB g-ddr5 might be not vastly better than a 100W console with 2GB g-ddr5.
the ground-breaking console with a futuristic many-core processor, more memory and a non crappy SSD (plus a significant fiber-to-the-home infrastructure) can be for the gen after that.
I'm not sure gigantism is desired next-gen : storage and memory budget are a concern, and current CPU and GPU midrange offerings hint at a very decent possible upgrade. /edit : that laptop that Mobius1aic linked to, with an underclocked i7 and a low-midrange AMD GPU is a great example, down to the HDD.
I believe keeping it just under 100 watts would be desirable. a 200W console with 2GB g-ddr5 might be not vastly better than a 100W console with 2GB g-ddr5.
the ground-breaking console with a futuristic many-core processor, more memory and a non crappy SSD (plus a significant fiber-to-the-home infrastructure) can be for the gen after that.
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Well cost I think is the primary concern "next gen" and it's obvious we can do it within thermal and power needs, and cost should be easy if off the shelf parts are used. The only thing "new" I expect for the next round is the main CPUs, but they will surely be PPC based again, to afford backwards compatibility, and the GPUs will surely be 32 nm or smaller in die process. Hell, >50W can be done easily, especially in 3 years or so. I'm most interested in what the next Wii will be spec'ed, since Nintendo has made their image to casual gamers about being small and compact. The current Wii is what, 25W or so? That's on 90 nm to boot.
Blazkowicz
Legend
I use a 8400GS, and it is very capable of running older stuff at HD res with 2x AA and aniso filtering. a geforce 210 with ddr3 (still on a 64bit bus but that doubles the bandwith) would be a big upgrade already.
here's a bundle with specs high enough for a wii HD :
http://www.materiel.net/ctl/ITX/54453-MB_D510_MITX_GeForce_G210_PCI_e_1x.html
here's a bundle with specs high enough for a wii HD :
http://www.materiel.net/ctl/ITX/54453-MB_D510_MITX_GeForce_G210_PCI_e_1x.html
Seeing as I jumped off the Nintendo boat due to the pathetic hardware I can say this: if MS or Sony go the Wii route and the other goes with a full fledged 5-7 year console design with robust hardware I know where my $299-399 will go. It all really depends on a company not being idiotic and designing above $399 (ahem) and expecting people to work overtime at $599.
I'm very excited to see what happens when the big three start leaking out details of their new hardware, but it really seems to me that the biggest asset they have (well, at least that MS and Sony have, anyway) is all the operating software they created for this generation.
Being able to re-use the operating systems and the application level services (media playback, etc.) should make the next generation much cheaper to develop than this last one was.
Certainly it should do for Sony.. they had basically nothing on the PS2 that was relevant going forward to the PS3.
Nintendo has got to be in the same position for their next generation console as well, I should think.
Being able to re-use the operating systems and the application level services (media playback, etc.) should make the next generation much cheaper to develop than this last one was.
Certainly it should do for Sony.. they had basically nothing on the PS2 that was relevant going forward to the PS3.
Nintendo has got to be in the same position for their next generation console as well, I should think.
My new laptop has a Geforce 310M w/ 256 MB of DDR3. It runs the original FEAR maxed out w/o soft shadows/no AA/4x AF/1366 x 768 very nicely. That's only 16 Unified Shaders mind you, and 64 bit memory interface and stil maitaining 40+ FPS with ease. The 310M is one the low end as far as GPUs go compared to what we have available, but it's kind of crazy to imagine what if when it comes to comparing it to the Wii.
TheWretched
Regular
My new laptop has a Mobility Radeon 5650 (400 "Shader Cores", 450Mhz Clock, 890Mhz DDR3... overclocks easily to 650Mhz (as it is withing spec even) and 975Mhz), which can run GTA4 EOLC on mid to high settings acceptable (better than the consoles) at 1368x768. And it runs cool too (CPU goes to 75°C, GPU to 70°C), and silent. And that in a 699€ machine (though, the drawback is the bad screen).
If we think of hardware in two years time, and that it won't have a screen and other stuff which usually resides in a PC, that isn't needed in a console, a 599€ price won't happen again.
But simply high res'ing todays games won't cut it, imho. There needs to be more than just a slight upgrade to make next gen games stand out. Thus, I think, they should put in something that adds MAJORLY to physics and particle stuff. If the next consoles can run 1080P with 4x AA, it will be more than enough in that regard. Plus more and more complex shaders and other stuff (tesselation for example).
EDIT:
The 5650 has a TDP of 10 to 15 Watts and the Core i3 has about 35 Watts. This is a PRETTY low overall TDP compared to the high powered consoles of today (say PS3 with about 100 Watts with the slim). My notebooks uses between 50 and 70 Watts on load for the whole system, which also has a screen, too.
If we think of hardware in two years time, and that it won't have a screen and other stuff which usually resides in a PC, that isn't needed in a console, a 599€ price won't happen again.
But simply high res'ing todays games won't cut it, imho. There needs to be more than just a slight upgrade to make next gen games stand out. Thus, I think, they should put in something that adds MAJORLY to physics and particle stuff. If the next consoles can run 1080P with 4x AA, it will be more than enough in that regard. Plus more and more complex shaders and other stuff (tesselation for example).
EDIT:
The 5650 has a TDP of 10 to 15 Watts and the Core i3 has about 35 Watts. This is a PRETTY low overall TDP compared to the high powered consoles of today (say PS3 with about 100 Watts with the slim). My notebooks uses between 50 and 70 Watts on load for the whole system, which also has a screen, too.
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