Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

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Regarding what Nintendo could possibly do in the future, is there a possibility that the advancement of hardware tech will make sure Nintendo doesn't do a Wii turbo next time around (similar to GC > Wii)?

Who knows what Nintendo will come up with next. ;)

To clarify, what I mean is, I've heard that as time goes on, older components turn out to be more expensive to manufacture than newer ones (I heard something about GDDR3 RAM being cheaper than GDDR2 for example).
Is that really how it works? And if so, how big could the next upgrade be if one reasonably assumes that Nintendo goes for the cheapest possible?

This makes sense considering that manufacturers will be moving the majority of their production capacity to the latest and greatest technologies. Keeping lines open for older technologies for the now limited market makes the old stuff expensive.

To take an extreme example, no one wants EDO RAM, but if some company were to make a fairly large order for it, it could be done, but at a considerable expense compared to the rest of the computer world that is wanting more modern RAM.

To answer your actual question, if Nintendo even sees fit to follow Microsoft and Sony's timing on next generation consoles, we will probably see a mature market for GDDR5. It's anyone's guess as to what they'll do next and that will dictate what kind of hardware they will use (in terms of multi-core CPU or GPU capabilities). This is probably why you haven't really gotten much of an answer. ;)
 
Ah, thank you Alstrong. :)

Now, I know none of us obviously know what Nintendo is thinking. ;) Course, I just wanted a consensus with thinking that Nintendo couldn't just go with another turbo route, and although not at a PS4/Xbox720 leap, somewhere closer to 360/PS3, just by default. Thanks again!
 
The question is what kind of new architectural developments will be present in the next generation of consoles? I think obviously MS will have to go to a newer architecture unless there is a proper PowerPC one around that is still viable for consoles, especially of the projected caliber we're expecting in 2011. I honestly think the Cell architecture would viable for expansion and revision for later versions, with perhaps a more advanced and powerful PowerPC core and maybe even another or perhaps 2 more PowerPC control cores (I honestly think the Cell should've had 2 PowerPC cores), and an even higher number of SPUs, maybe in the realm of 16 or even upwards of 32. As for the Wii and Wii 2.0 or w/e Nintendo may have up there sleeve, I think Nintendo will definetly invest in more powerful components this next time around, at least as powerful as the current gen systems from MS and Sony, with focus on expanding on the current Wii's control capabilities, but finally increasing the graphical and computational fillrates that the Wii really needs like true HD output.
 
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:( The current generation is still the "next" generation for me... I think the possibility of me skipping this generation altogether is pretty much assured!

Oh hey guys! It's been a while! I'm still alive, and still with the biggest post count on here!!
 
:( The current generation is still the "next" generation for me... I think the possibility of me skipping this generation altogether is pretty much assured!

Oh hey guys! It's been a while! I'm still alive, and still with the biggest post count on here!!

You better get your act together or Shifty will overtake you pretty soon!
 
:( The current generation is still the "next" generation for me... I think the possibility of me skipping this generation altogether is pretty much assured!

Oh hey guys! It's been a while! I'm still alive, and still with the biggest post count on here!!
Yes it's nice to hear from you!

I might do the same thing as you!
I'm still to poor to invest in a good "future proof" hdtv for quiet some time.
I'm still not convince by the nextgen! A healthy amount of resouces is lost in the HD rendering pipe (as a sdtv user):
Shading work, memory foot print (textures size frame buffer size), bandwith usage, lack of AA (when AAx4 could be a given!).

And on the HD front and in regard to the game coming to windows I may find an upgrade of my computer a better... It would'nt take that many money in some month ot change my X2 3800+ in a phenom and to buy on of the next gen low mid end gpu.
More I'm sure that my eyes would be more pleased!
 
Seems like heterogenous cores are here to stay, link.

Developers need to rewrite today's computer software to pave the way for tomorrow's multi-core processors that will use a variety of different cores, according to Advanced Micro Devices. The work involves a fundamental re-thinking of the current software stack, said an executive trying to rally support for the concept.

AMD has started talks with partners including Microsoft on its ideas. The company believes the work will ease the job of programming heterogeneous computer microprocessors such as its Fusion chips that will mix x86, graphics and other cores starting in 2009.

AMD believes computer software needs to be re-defined in an open way much as the Open Systems Interconnection stack re-defined networking software in the late 1970's. By putting in place new levels of abstraction, the industry could let applications developers write parallel programs without needing to know the details of every multi-core processor.

Microsoft is one of the partners with whom AMD has been discussing the concept.
AMD stationed one of its senior fellows, Rich Witek, in Redmond, Washington in 2007 to set up an advanced technology lab to pursue the initiative and other future concepts. Witek led development teams for many microprocessors including the StrongARM and Alpha chips at Digital Equipment Corp.

"We cooperated with [Microsoft] successfully on the AMD 64-bit technology and they are ready to go at it again," Moore said.

I don´t hink it is particulary likely that MS will go with an AMD CPU in their next console, but it certainly is a possibility just like intels Larrabee.
 
Actually my posting rate is far more reserved these days. My gain on LB's lead is about equivalent to PS3's gain on XB360's... ;)
 
:( The current generation is still the "next" generation for me... I think the possibility of me skipping this generation altogether is pretty much assured!

Oh hey guys! It's been a while! I'm still alive, and still with the biggest post count on here!!

A blast from the past! Good to hear you're well.

Not so good to hear you're sticking to your guns and not joining next-gen. Oh well, horses for courses and all that.
 
:( The current generation is still the "next" generation for me... I think the possibility of me skipping this generation altogether is pretty much assured!

Oh hey guys! It's been a while! I'm still alive, and still with the biggest post count on here!!

Holy sh*t, I feel younger by a year or two reading lb's post.
 
Wii would be someone out in front and increasing their lead. No such person on these boards, and any account managing that would have to be a robot so I'd ban 'em!
 
Come on shifty. We are all rooting for you, you can do it.

*gets popcorn ready for post count race*

*hangs head in shame*
 
woohoo people remember me!

Hey boys!

I think MS will buy Nintendo... now how's THAT for a blast from the past?

Seriously though, i still remember the days when Nintendo was "gonna fail" and were "gonna be bought" by either Sony or MS according to the fanboiz even just a few weeks before Wii launched, and look what happened!

So, predicting the future now either in hardware or in market place is, in my opinion, impossible.

Heck, not that i ever cared that much, but i was one of those guys who thought that Sony's market share in the days of the PS2 was enough to keep them on top in this generation, and look at today's market!

Everything can change, and to be honest i'd welcome with open arms a "revolution" like the Wii, only bigger and better, although i'm not sure if another huge step like this will happen again any time soon.

To stay on topic, i think PS4 will have 4 GPUS, 2 CPUs with 129 cores each (gotta be asymmetrical!) and 3.33333 GB Ram. There!

No, seriously, i surely hope that in 3 or 4 years time, 1080p with at least 4x AA will be standard, but then again i also expected this generation to have AA on all the time, so who am i to talk!

have a good night guys
Dan
 
Come on shifty. We are all rooting for you, you can do it.

*gets popcorn ready for post count race*

*hangs head in shame*

Come on, everyone knows mine is just too big. Gives me problems sometimes. Shifty can try but at the end of the day, you either have it or u don't.



(Missed me?)
 
This may be a separate thread, but bear with me. This relates directly to potential hardware choices the Big 3 would make. I was mulling much of this thread over in my mind recently when something occured to me. With all the talk of problems arising with cost/process reductions potentially holding everyone back, not to mention the higher entry prices for the 360 and PS3, the success of the Wii (in a certain demographic anyway), MS's problems with getting a reliable product, etc, is the next gen going to see a very different shift? Not necessarily away from graphics, but to a different kind of game.

We've seen single player campaigns get shorter and shorter. We can argue over the reasons for this, art and overall development costs increasing vs. the PvP interest online, but it has appeared to take place. COD4 may be the best example. Whether you liked the Single Player Campaign or not, it was the shortest experience I have ever had (assuming I actually played it all the way through.)

The PSN "Home", the success of WoW, Xbox Live Arcade and then you have all the little "free/pay" MMO's online like Puzzle Pirates or Eve Online all say to me that is where the "traditional style" of play is going to go. Limited user created content (like character appearance, home/ship/car appearance, etc) and a single engine with expansion packs like so many now have (downloadable or through physical media distribution.)

There appears to be both a huge (relatively untapped on the console side) market and an infrastructure (in game for Live like your cars appearance in Forza, or the upcoming PSN Home) already heading towards MMO games of all kinds of types. Suppose this is where a lot of the money is seen to be in the next-generation. I say next-generation since there appears to be little to no MMO style play available on consoles currently. Just vs. multiplayer and some co-op. MMO's have both. What if that drives the hardware choices for the next generation of "traditional style" play? This wouldn't preclude the Guitar Heroes/Rock Band or Wii type controller games still coming around, but they are not graphic intensive.

Say you are MS. When you buy the Xbox 3 AND subscribe to a GOLD membership, you get to pick 1 of say a half-dozen different themed kind of MMO's to download and play while you maintain your subscription. Say they have a fantasy, a sci-fi, a current time line, hell you probably know more about what already exists than I do. Maybe it costs more, maybe they mini-transaction you, maybe both - who knows.

Assume all will have a hdd (with the possible exception of the Wii2.) I would consider that a fair assumption given the media distribution market both Sony and MS want. So a hdd is not a problem. What holds the system back from these kinds of games. I believe it is RAM. System and Video. I've not played WoW, but I have seen it. Not exactly visually impressive and often the footage I have seen involved massive framerate issues in large battles. IF you were going to head this route, thinking the subscription money (either Live or pay for individual games, or whatever route you choose to go for) is a gold mine, how would YOU design the system? What do you need to render in? What do you need for memory? Could not this kind of direction have an effect on the hardware choices the manufacturers make? They would be less concerned about pushing the CPU and GPU power right to the edge, something which has seemed to cause no end of headaches this gen (yes, I realize some of those problems were not really a choice of Sony or MS, but a shift in the way computing power has had to advance.)

Think about it. While I doubt this would see the end of the SP campaign, it already appears to be dying anyway. The PSN is free to use, MS requires a subscription fee. Instead of selling, or just selling the games, you run it as a subscription service. Continuous revenue throughout the time people play. Then you get the effect that people tend to get attached to their characters and objects and are loathe to give them up, even if they do not play as often as they used to. Instead of $60 once, and maybe a Live fee IF they are online vs. players, you get a revolving income and a potentially captive audience.

I don't know what an MMO costs to develop. It probably runs the board just like other games with something like Puzzle Pirates being relatively cheap and WoW being expensive. My question still stands though. This must look really attractive to the Big 3 and the developers. So what would this desire change in the next gen hardware race? Would sacrificing a bit of overall CPU/GPU prowess for more RAM and MMO's be worth it? Would it help with the process shrink wall that some here have said is coming? I know the process shrinks affect RAM as well, but it always seems like RAM prices fall fast. So, what do you need and is it worth it?
 
<speculation..>

It's a nice idea but it'll never happen IMO because it's all based on one big fat assumption that somehow all gamers' tastes will diverge somewhat to desiring MMO gameplay exclusively..

In reality this is a pretty silly assumption because everyone's tastes are different.. There are more than enough gamers around who are content with SP campaigns & SP games (you only have to observe the FPS, RPG, Wii & Action Adventure demographics) & so to try to imply that single player gaming is dying is a pretty far fetched idea..

You can't build a console around one type of game because consoles NEED widespread, mass market appeal, otherwise you alienate practically 80% of your consumers & developers from taking an interest in supporting your platform & hence, don't sell..
 
I'm saying change everything. I was just pointing out that if some of the above posters are correct, the processing power will not see quite the leap as in the past simply because the process shrinks are not present. I'm just asking if there is a pot of gold out there in MMO, something that maybe does not doesn't cost as much to make because the dev art might be reduced and/or you have a more consistent revenue stream, then it may change what you want the hardware to do. All the games we currently have would still be there. A number of posts here have pointed out that what MAY definie the processing power is what is needed, and not what the ultimate possible available is.

Basically, why not spend some more money on RAM, or whatever resources are needed, to ADD MMO's to the scene? Hell, if you are a developer, don't you have to be looking at games like WoW and going "damn, that is one pile o' cash." We need to be in on that scene. The same way the number of FPS games developers have grown over the years.

I'm not in any way stating that all the games we are used to should disappear or be hampered. I'm just pointing out that much of what I thought of as traditional gaming has already seen a shift from the single player campaign to multi-player, mostly vs. MMO just seems to be missing, so why not ADD it.
 
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