Post your Lair impressions/experiences

fallguy · Sep 9, 2007

Yeah, Im digging the air fights with the enemy dragons. Im cruising around with zero problems with control. I do wish if you held the flap button (x) it would keep flapping though. I havent had one problem with control. Ive died twice now, and have gotten gold twice.

D3B · Sep 9, 2007

ultragpu said:
same here and so did rest of my friends who have tried it. im quite enjoying the game for all the dragon dogfights, aerial chase etc, and some of the levels are really addicative.

The reveiws are wack. IGN-

Sixaxis controls kill this game.

Control is easy and if you have major problems you must be uncoordinated, basicly if you score control low you have no skill

Strange · Sep 9, 2007

So it comes back to saying that the reviewers have no skill?

different approach, same conclusion

Paul_G · Sep 9, 2007

D3B said:
The reveiws are wack. IGN-

Control is easy and if you have major problems you must be uncoordinated, basicly if you score control low you have no skill

I imagine the reviews were written with 1.90 in use, many are saying 1.92 improves things. I read the IGN review and though I haven't played the game and cannot confirm or deny what they are saying, if the game had the faults they say it does, then that score seems pretty appropriate.

Arwin · Sep 9, 2007

It's not just that though. IGN gave Super Rub-a-Dub a 2.9/10 quoting that the game had the worst example of motion control implementation yet. I'm thinking a lot of (hardcore) reviewers will take some time getting used to motion controls, and they often don't get that much time for a game anyway.

Laa-Yosh · Sep 9, 2007

It's so cool that we can arrive at the same conclusion every time - it's the reviewers who suck, not the game. Totally cool.

Paul_G · Sep 9, 2007

I agree, it's a shame but reviews are written to a deadline. some games with more of a learning curve may take more time than a reviewer is willing or is able to give. Whether this is the case for Lair and Super Rub-a-Dub, we'll never know. Certainly the reader review average seems to agree that they were overly harsh.

I've noticed a number of people in this and other threads at the moment saying a reviewer should be putting themselves in the place of the reader. I disagree, I've always felt reviewing is a subjective and personal thing. Trying to put themselves in someone else's shoes is the last thing i want to see because I can't trust they've got that right. At least if I know it's their own opinion, I can trust they're being honest and can make a judgment from there. My only point here is that if these reviewers are doing their job like I hope they are then it's just their opinion and people should keep that in mind before criticizing.

Arwin · Sep 9, 2007

Laa-Yosh said:
It's so cool that we can arrive at the same conclusion every time - it's the reviewers who suck, not the game. Totally cool.

You're not very different, now are you? Just because people fight reviews for the wrong reasons, does that mean we can never fight reviews over the right reasons?

I can prove that the controls in Super Rub-a-Dub are good and responsive. I can prove that the controls using the sixaxis in Motorstorm are more precise than using the analog stick. I can prove that the sixaxis controls are very good in Warhawk. Someone else proved with a youtube video that Lair controls are fine, and several other people here have confirmed this.

No reviews however do any such thing. They can't get grips with the controls, and dismiss them. Very rarely do they specifically indicate what the problem is, i.e. verifiable issues (180 degree, when they even know it's there, excepted, as well as some lock on issues). Looking at the whole thing scientifically, right now the burden of proof is very much with reviewers, because several people here and on the interwebs have provided some easily verifiable data that indicates they're off the mark when it comes to the controls.

Do you want me to supersize those last words? Because the way our discussion of the motion controls in Lair gets dismissed suggesting that we are Sony fanboys and Lair apologists is getting a bit ridiculous.

Laa-Yosh · Sep 9, 2007

I'd argue with this on purpose even if it wasn't about Lair. Your ability to use the controls does not prove anything. There are youtube videos of guys completing the Rubik cube in unbelievably short time as well, but it doesn't mean that anyone else can do it, too.

But the more important point is that you guys act like Lair's low scores are only the result of the motion control issues that some lame journalists have with an otherwise flawless game. Yet almost every review I've read talks about annoying and uninspired gameplay, various graphics issues, and so on. It is quite obvious that in their rush to get the game out of the door, Factor5 had to resort to remake Rouge Squadron with dragons, but change the gameplay for the worst - even patsu here has listed several stupid problems (unskippable engine movies for some kills, uncontrolable auto targeting, lack of radar, silly mission design etc). And I guess I don't have to get into details about my opinion on the graphics.

There will be plenty of other titles on the PS3 that will be good and successful. The only thing you can get out from sticking to Lair and attacking the entire gaming media is that your opinions will become completely weightless here on B3D.

ultragpu · Sep 9, 2007

Laa-Yosh said:
It's so cool that we can arrive at the same conclusion every time - it's the reviewers who suck, not the game. Totally cool.

i hate the use of generalization, i prefer to deal things more specifically. and in this case some of reviewer like Greg Miller just totally suck at lair. why cant some people stand the fact that Lair is alot more enjoyable than the review says?

fallguy · Sep 9, 2007

Strange said:
So it comes back to saying that the reviewers have no skill?

I dont know why they have problems controlling the dragons. I didnt try it with 1.90, but I am having zero problems controlling in the game. Which seems to be the trend with user reviews, not "official" ones. Such is the case in this thread.

I had a friend come over last night, cause he wanted to see it. Hes never used a sixaxis before, hes got a 360 Elite. (we trade shots at each other for our choices

)He has played some games at my house, but not where you use the sixaxis. He too had no problems controlling it. Went to the training missions, and went right thru the first mission without any problems.

I just cant understand why reviewers are having a hard time. spent $8 renting this game, because I wanted to make sure th controls wouldnt be a problem for me. Now I wish I had put that money towards buying the game. Maybe I can beat it.. Im on mission #6 out of 14. And I finally for the first time failed a mission.

Arwin · Sep 9, 2007

Laa-Yosh said:
I'd argue with this on purpose even if it wasn't about Lair. Your ability to use the controls does not prove anything. There are youtube videos of guys completing the Rubik cube in unbelievably short time as well, but it doesn't mean that anyone else can do it, too.

But the more important point is that you guys act like Lair's low scores are only the result of the motion control issues that some lame journalists have with an otherwise flawless game.

No we don't. I take strong prejudice against this generalisation. You quote patsu yourself for Pete's sake. If you can't even see that someone like patsu doesn't fit your extremely broad-stroked 'you guys' definition, then I don't know what else to do but ignore you from here on (on any subject that does not involve 3D graphics and art.

)

Yet almost every review I've read talks about annoying and uninspired gameplay, various graphics issues, and so on. It is quite obvious that in their rush to get the game out of the door, Factor5 had to resort to remake Rouge Squadron with dragons, but change the gameplay for the worst - even patsu here has listed several stupid problems (unskippable engine movies for some kills, uncontrolable auto targeting, lack of radar, silly mission design etc). And I guess I don't have to get into details about my opinion on the graphics.

Shall we go then into the details of you never having played the game either, like me, but unlike, say, patsu?

There will be plenty of other titles on the PS3 that will be good and successful. The only thing you can get out from sticking to Lair and attacking the entire gaming media is that your opinions will become completely weightless here on B3D.

Like yours? Because remember, there used to be a day where your opinions on certain aspects isolated you from the 'majority' as well. Except that in this case, the people on this forum who actually played the game and had problems with the basic controls (except, again, the issues that have been explicitly noted by me, patsu, and god knows who else), are in a huge majority. Maybe even a 100% majority.

I don't give a ^%&( about Lair or Factor 5. But I do care about motion controls, and right now, if I am getting anything out of this, then hopefully at the very least some sort of reviewer that I can trust on this subject, because I do rely on reviews (not the grades, but the content) quite a lot, and have done so for 20 years. (I think I've gotten quite good at it actually).

I think many people here who do like the motion controls feel the same. (And we probably have a fair number of symphatisers among the Wii crowd.

)

patsu · Sep 9, 2007

Em... I know people are eager to express their opinions on Lair, but could you kindly keep on topic and save a little user feedback space for F5 ?

woundingchaney · Sep 9, 2007

Im not completely sure we played the same game here. The motion controls in Lair are horrid. Perhaps their is a large learning curve but that doesnt change that they are slow and unresponsive on top of being problematic to execute some of the aerial maneuvers. I dont particularly see anything wrong with the reviews as the motion control was by far the worst aspect of the title. An action game shouldnt have a learning curve of hours to steer the dragon when the rest of the gameplay is so elementary (shoot fireballs, drop bombs, lock on target, hit button, etc) and I doubt anyone can "prove" that the motion controls in Lair are anywhere near as accurate as an analog stick (where as I believe that motion "can" be as accurate it simply isnt the case in Lair). I have played the game (have owned it) the motion control is so horribly done that it makes progressing through the game more of a chore than a pleasure.

Everyone can say that the reviewers didnt give Lair enough time or they are "motion control" incompetent but why should they spend hours attempting to perfect a flawed control system. It cant be proven that reviewers arent skilled with motion control in general and to assume such is a bit ridiculous.

patsu · Sep 9, 2007

woundingchaney, is the control still unresponsive after 1.92 ?

I got into the game right after the training. Didn't have any control issue except for the speed. I have learned to play at that speed, and then slow down/hover using L2/R2 if necessary. Dashing is useful too (to gain time obviously, and dodge cannon balls

).

Someone claimed that he can do 22 times 180 degree turn without problem:
http://dory.mncast.com/mncHMovie.swf?movieID=10040093120070909130826&skinNum=2

The video quality is very very bad, but my experience is similar to his.

fallguy · Sep 9, 2007

I cant fathom how some people think the controls are hard. Its so easy to me. Trying to be nice.. I would imagine people who cant with 1.92 just suck.

woundingchaney · Sep 9, 2007

patsu said:
woundingchaney, is the control still unresponsive after 1.92 ?

I didnt play much after the update, although they are more responsive than the earlier 1.90. I wouldnt classify them as "good" or anything but they were marginally improved.

Paul_G · Sep 9, 2007

fallguy said:
I cant fathom how some people think the controls are hard. Its so easy to me. Trying to be nice.. I would imagine people who cant with 1.92 just suck.

I know it's not a perfect comparison, but I have had Gears of War since December last year and I haven't even got past the first level I don't think, and this is largely down to the controls. I have completed plenty of FPS's and have no trouble playing Halo on Heroic, it just....doesn't agree with me. Maybe I need to sit down and give it a solid few hours, but I just find it not very easy to get the hang of. This despite, to my knowledge, no one really complaining about the controls. My only point here is some people just don't get along with certain control schemes. I don't think you should be knocking it, maybe some people just click with the controls better than others. I'm having a hard time buying that that many 'experts' or at least, 'regular gamers' can have it wrong though.

Maybe you're just one of the people who 'gets' motion controls :???:

fallguy · Sep 9, 2007

I wasnt trying to be rude or mean, dont take it that way please. But its just so easy, I dont understand how this can be considered hard. I mean, you just tilt it.. and you move. There are a lot of things that bring down the score to me, but controls isnt one of them.

Paul_G · Sep 9, 2007

fallguy said:
I wasnt trying to be rude or mean, dont take it that way please. But its just so easy, I dont understand how this can be considered hard. I mean, you just tilt it.. and you move. There are a lot of things that bring down the score to me, but controls isnt one of them.

Yeah I know it sounds simple, but so does just pressing a button. I saw one of the many youtube videos of Lair and it showed first the wrong way to play, then the right way. In both cases, the player was just tilting it, but the difference in results was huge. It does seem like there is a right way and a wrong way to play, and maybe some people just expect more from motion controls than you do. Whatever the reason, it seems like some people just don't find it easy to play.

Post your Lair impressions/experiences

fallguy

D3B

Strange

Paul_G

Arwin

Now Officially a Top 10 Poster

Laa-Yosh

I can has custom title?

Paul_G

Arwin

Now Officially a Top 10 Poster

Laa-Yosh

I can has custom title?

ultragpu

fallguy

Arwin

Now Officially a Top 10 Poster

patsu

woundingchaney

patsu

fallguy

woundingchaney

Paul_G

fallguy

Paul_G

Similar threads

Post *your* Lair impressions/experiences

Now Officially a Top 10 Poster

I can has custom title?

Now Officially a Top 10 Poster

I can has custom title?

Now Officially a Top 10 Poster

Similar threads

Post your Lair impressions/experiences