I always felt that any problems I had originally meant I had to reform my movements, and make them more precise. I have no problems with that - I thought that was part of the fun. Maybe the problem is that it's not that fun if you can't do it in Lair lol.
Post *your* Lair impressions/experiences
- Thread starter mrcorbo
- Start date
I always felt that any problems I had originally meant I had to reform my movements, and make them more precise. I have no problems with that - I thought that was part of the fun. Maybe the problem is that it's not that fun if you can't do it in Lair lol.
To be fair to Julian, 180 degree turn works 80-90% for me too. It's not an issue during play time. The failed cases are mostly because I was recovering from my posture. e.g., Chasing down those stubborn 200 point dragons. You should try it for yourself and see.
They should nail him for the following issues instead.
+ Level design
=========
++ Don't overlap so many goals before they are completed
++ Game is not balanced well for default difficulty. Player is thrown into the deep end right away. If I slow down the dragon to gain fine-grained control, I might not execute fast enough to win too.
++ Give something for the user to know what's happening on the map better (If not a radar, something equivalent).
+ Presentation (Focus. Focus)
==================
++ Get rid of the intermitten cut scenes (do them in PIP, or space out the sub-quests so they are not needed)
++ Do NOT pan to the fallen soldiers or rhino heads when I dropped them. It's pointless and distracting.
+ Controls
=======
++ Works well for me so far. Perhaps some more play testing and other control options would be good.
++ Reduce the need for violent, repeated SIXAXIS movements. Mild gestures like 180 degree turn and dash are ok. Shaking the controller violently within a few seconds to destroy towers, attack giant snakes and tear rhinoes' heads off are not ok. Look at Folksoul, the tug of war happens over like 30 seconds and spaced out nicely. There is plenty of time to react/execute. Many ideas in Lair are good, but not polished enough.
However, thanks for the RemotePlay support and great graphics moments (huge battlefields, giant monsters, realistic coast, ...)
They should nail him for the following issues instead.
+ Level design
=========
++ Don't overlap so many goals before they are completed
++ Game is not balanced well for default difficulty. Player is thrown into the deep end right away. If I slow down the dragon to gain fine-grained control, I might not execute fast enough to win too.
++ Give something for the user to know what's happening on the map better (If not a radar, something equivalent).
+ Presentation (Focus. Focus)
==================
++ Get rid of the intermitten cut scenes (do them in PIP, or space out the sub-quests so they are not needed)
++ Do NOT pan to the fallen soldiers or rhino heads when I dropped them. It's pointless and distracting.
+ Controls
=======
++ Works well for me so far. Perhaps some more play testing and other control options would be good.
++ Reduce the need for violent, repeated SIXAXIS movements. Mild gestures like 180 degree turn and dash are ok. Shaking the controller violently within a few seconds to destroy towers, attack giant snakes and tear rhinoes' heads off are not ok. Look at Folksoul, the tug of war happens over like 30 seconds and spaced out nicely. There is plenty of time to react/execute. Many ideas in Lair are good, but not polished enough.
However, thanks for the RemotePlay support and great graphics moments (huge battlefields, giant monsters, realistic coast, ...)
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Ninja Theory got it right with the PIP - I expect it's really frustrating - I'll know by Friday
Heh heh... I don't know about curses and witchcraft, but the flaws in Lair are design issues and can be overcome. it's a pretty decent game. I heard the last 2 levels are better. If so, I might indeed play it again from time to time (because flying the dragon is cool). I only hope that F5 can fix it somehow.
The control is also not the problem. The execution is.
In fact, a quick/cheap way to ease the game is to relax the failure conditions. e.g.,
Make the mantas super tough, or lengthen the duration.
But to get a higher score, they need to fix the fundamental issues in the game.
EDIT: GameTrailer rates Lair a 6/10. Similar complains but like they say, "The core gameplay is not bad".
It also looks like most people have less sensitive controllers (before 1.92).
[gt]24533[/gt]
The control is also not the problem. The execution is.
In fact, a quick/cheap way to ease the game is to relax the failure conditions. e.g.,
Make the mantas super tough, or lengthen the duration.
But to get a higher score, they need to fix the fundamental issues in the game.
EDIT: GameTrailer rates Lair a 6/10. Similar complains but like they say, "The core gameplay is not bad".
It also looks like most people have less sensitive controllers (before 1.92).
[gt]24533[/gt]
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RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
What?
Is it just me or is the developer saying that precision is necessarily lacking on motion controlled games and that's just how it is?
I completed the game with gold medals across the board...
Still waiting for people to post how to get the platinums...
（no.3 on the global rankings currently)
After finishing the game (4 times, because each gold medals required at least 4 attempts at every level), I didn't find the control annoying at all. It worked very well for me (used firmware 1.92 all the way)
however, there are certain things that I would like to complain about
1. framedrops: should have tried to done a bit less to cope with the framerate issues. It's by no means "unplayable", but does need some getting used to. If you can stand shadow of the collosus, then it won't be a problem here either.
2. 180 turns. It's not as unreliable as many reviewers claim it to be. It does go haywire sometimes, but I'd say that it's just one of the things you must get over with motion control. It's not 100% accurate, especially sudden jerks.
Hell I sometimes also get misjudgements on my analog sticks in games like Monster Hunter 2. motion sensing by default shouldn't be more responsive than buttons. (on these types of jerks, I mean) Remember that in order to register a "jerk", you have to finish your "jerk", which takes time. A much longer time than pressing a button. A button has no variation except pressure, which most games don't care about. A jerk has an infinite number of variations.
3. Combos: The camera for finding the next dragon to slam into should be able to move in more directions instead of only in a plane. This is the biggest gripe I have about the game. However, I don't think this is as big a problem as the reviewers claim it to be.
4. Some small bugs: like dragons freezing in fight mode...
5. difficult to get gold medals: well... some of them ARE a bit demanding... esp. the first stage. However, this is more of a rant
I had given the game a 7.5~8 before I got all the gold medals.
After finishing it, and getting much more used to the game, I would now give it a 8~8.5
It would definately deserve a 9 if there weren't for the small bugs and the small inconveniences.
Still waiting for people to post how to get the platinums...
（no.3 on the global rankings currently
)After finishing the game (4 times, because each gold medals required at least 4 attempts at every level), I didn't find the control annoying at all. It worked very well for me (used firmware 1.92 all the way)
however, there are certain things that I would like to complain about
1. framedrops: should have tried to done a bit less to cope with the framerate issues. It's by no means "unplayable", but does need some getting used to. If you can stand shadow of the collosus, then it won't be a problem here either.
2. 180 turns. It's not as unreliable as many reviewers claim it to be. It does go haywire sometimes, but I'd say that it's just one of the things you must get over with motion control. It's not 100% accurate, especially sudden jerks.
Hell I sometimes also get misjudgements on my analog sticks in games like Monster Hunter 2. motion sensing by default shouldn't be more responsive than buttons. (on these types of jerks, I mean) Remember that in order to register a "jerk", you have to finish your "jerk", which takes time. A much longer time than pressing a button. A button has no variation except pressure, which most games don't care about. A jerk has an infinite number of variations.
3. Combos: The camera for finding the next dragon to slam into should be able to move in more directions instead of only in a plane. This is the biggest gripe I have about the game. However, I don't think this is as big a problem as the reviewers claim it to be.
4. Some small bugs: like dragons freezing in fight mode...
5. difficult to get gold medals: well... some of them ARE a bit demanding... esp. the first stage. However, this is more of a rant
I had given the game a 7.5~8 before I got all the gold medals.
After finishing it, and getting much more used to the game, I would now give it a 8~8.5
It would definately deserve a 9 if there weren't for the small bugs and the small inconveniences.
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This is what they should do and relaunch the game.
* Fix the framerate, it must be locked!! As of now, it kills the game completely.
* Remove gestures and replace them with buttons.
* Make the in game cut-scenes that pops in all the time showing stuff that happens optional. Most of the time it's enough with telling, no need to show.
* Make an option for people who hate the motion control, although the motion controls works very well except the gestures so it should be primary.
* Fix the framerate!
* It very evident that many graphical stuff in this game is still W.I.P like many effects as mist, explosions, fix these also.
* The missions could be alot longer.
If only the framerate was fixed, this game would be 2-3 times better than it is right now in my book.
* Fix the framerate, it must be locked!! As of now, it kills the game completely.
* Remove gestures and replace them with buttons.
* Make the in game cut-scenes that pops in all the time showing stuff that happens optional. Most of the time it's enough with telling, no need to show.
* Make an option for people who hate the motion control, although the motion controls works very well except the gestures so it should be primary.
* Fix the framerate!
* It very evident that many graphical stuff in this game is still W.I.P like many effects as mist, explosions, fix these also.
* The missions could be alot longer.
If only the framerate was fixed, this game would be 2-3 times better than it is right now in my book.
I'm curious to see whether patching this game would improve its reception by gamers. I'd like to see if a heavily patched game can succeed on any of the console platforms. I don't think they fared very well in the PC space, so I'm guessing it would be the same in the console space. And I'm not talking about patches for new features, but patches to fix bugs or poor implementation.
IMHO, Lair, Warhawk, Folksoul, flOw and Super rub-a-dub are all fun games because of SIXAXIS. Have you tried playing them ? The issues with Lair are not solely SIXAXIS related. There are bigger problems that caused player frustration.
I am rather glad that they incorporated motion sensing into Dualshock. In fact, I don't think they have exploited its full potential yet (e.g., Add gesturing to the web browser and XMB as an option, any EyeToy combo-interaction ?).
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just got the game yesterday, so far im loving it. i easily picked up the motion control and it felt rather natrual than frustrating. the tutorial is useful and the only complain would b making quick turns. i've no problem doing 180 at all, it's a 95% success rate. the graphics and sound are beyond anything released so far on ps3, i do wish more freedom in the game though as some missions are rather short. riding a dragon in this game is mostly fun tbh.
Em... I have not finished my Lair game yet to give it a final score
But everyone in the game play with the same rule. The control scheme does not work against/for you alone. So like Strange above, you can still be better than most if you practice hard enough. e.g., I have yet to master dragon flight because I keep forgeting about speed control and dashing.
As I mentioned in my posts above, there are larger issues with the game besides the controller. For example, if I can't find my enemies, the best control scheme does not matter; if the game switches to cutscenes frequently, it annoys the players.
During the sea serpent fight, I only experienced 2 times where I didn't execute the 180 degree turn successfully. 2 out of 20-30 times is pretty good. When I failed to turn, it simply took me another flip to get back into action. The penalty is not great.
Once I found out how targeting works, I simply fly into the thick of the battle and let auto-targeting does it work. The dragon may swoop and spin to lock-on to different enemies, I simply control the fire button.
I have improved once I learned how flipping works (it works relative to a levelled plane, not your current controller orientation). At least that's how I play it
Also Lair does not depend strictly on 180 degree turn to win/lose. How you approach the battlefield is more important (e.g., where are the enemies ? who to attack first ?).It's not a number game. Give it a try in the store (assuming they have 1.92).
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RenegadeRocks
Legend
From the gameplay videos I have seen on Youtube , the controls seem fine and the night mission where u have to avoid spotlights quite interesting, in fact a lot of fun. There maybe issues with targeting, as a lot of reviews including Gametrailers has pointed out, but I think the amazing visuals and flying ur dragon with ur hand movement is still a lot of fun, I 'll buy a ps3 in jan and get this game too, i guess.
. There maybe issues with targeting, as a lot of reviews including Gametrailers has pointed out, but I think the amazing visuals and flying ur dragon with ur hand movement is still a lot of fun, I 'll buy a ps3 in jan and get this game too, i guess.just some tips for lair owners here. if you wanna find enemies quickly, the dragon's vision is the easist to do so, with targeting, it's mostly accurate if u just aim relatively straight to your target with no sudden movements. overall i find it easy to control and nothing to frustrate about. some of the levels are rendered so beautifully they're breathtaking.
ihamoitc2005
Veteran
Graphics
Controls: I know why "expert" gamers sometimes hate lair controls. They skip tutorial because they feel they do not need it then get angry because they cannot use sixaxis properly. These "experts" also laugh at Wii controls but look how great Wii controls are. Not always 100% accurate but if you use it you can become very good. Everyone loves bowling in Wii. I only have a Wii and I love it.
Graphics: Lair has most amazing graphics for me. Sometimes it is like CGI! But one thing I hate is fire effects. Really bad! Even in cutscenes they have the same fire effect. Everything else is amazing but suddently you have ugly cheap fire effect. Very dissappointing. But 99% of Lair graphics are amazing even though it is complete 3D world. It has much better graphics than any flight sims but also has good graphics for ground fighting. Amazing draw-distance, thousands of soldiers, big cities, real moving water, complicated mountain shapes, great shadows (you can see your shadow on enemy dragon before you kill it!) at 1080P. Factor Five is amazing. But terrible fire effect (when things are burning) spoils it for me. Still I feel I must buy a PS3 to try all levels to see the graphics. Only available PS3 games I will buy to see graphics are Lair and Heavenly Sword.
Story: It seems like a good story but maybe because I have not played the whole game I feel maybe there is not enough "development" from level to level. It's more like missions and story is second. But I have not played the whole game. I think Japanese developers make good stories with good development.
Controls: I know why "expert" gamers sometimes hate lair controls. They skip tutorial because they feel they do not need it then get angry because they cannot use sixaxis properly. These "experts" also laugh at Wii controls but look how great Wii controls are. Not always 100% accurate but if you use it you can become very good. Everyone loves bowling in Wii. I only have a Wii and I love it.
Graphics: Lair has most amazing graphics for me. Sometimes it is like CGI! But one thing I hate is fire effects. Really bad! Even in cutscenes they have the same fire effect. Everything else is amazing but suddently you have ugly cheap fire effect. Very dissappointing. But 99% of Lair graphics are amazing even though it is complete 3D world. It has much better graphics than any flight sims but also has good graphics for ground fighting. Amazing draw-distance, thousands of soldiers, big cities, real moving water, complicated mountain shapes, great shadows (you can see your shadow on enemy dragon before you kill it!) at 1080P. Factor Five is amazing. But terrible fire effect (when things are burning) spoils it for me. Still I feel I must buy a PS3 to try all levels to see the graphics. Only available PS3 games I will buy to see graphics are Lair and Heavenly Sword.
Story: It seems like a good story but maybe because I have not played the whole game I feel maybe there is not enough "development" from level to level. It's more like missions and story is second. But I have not played the whole game. I think Japanese developers make good stories with good development.
Well, I rented it today. The controls are very easy to me. Im doing everything just fine. Did the little tutorial, got all the rings. Got a gold on the first mission, on my first try. The only issues I am having, are what have been mentioned. Dipping frames, and lock on that doesnt lock on the target I want.
I did read the manual before playing, and I did watch some youtube videos showing that slower, is better. You cant go in and play like a 3 year old. Not a crack on anyone, but thats how my boy uses the sixaxis sometimes. In super rub-a-dub, he will tilt it so far, the controller is upside down. You just have to tilt it a little, and not go over board. And not go real fast, just go smooth and easy... like in the sack.
Not sure how many missions there are, Im on the 3rd. Maybe I can beat it in 5 days, and not have to buy it. But Im digging it so far. Not the 4.5-6.5 its been getting to me, but not the franchise game it was touted to possibly be. So far, Id give it a 7.5-8.
I did read the manual before playing, and I did watch some youtube videos showing that slower, is better. You cant go in and play like a 3 year old. Not a crack on anyone, but thats how my boy uses the sixaxis sometimes. In super rub-a-dub, he will tilt it so far, the controller is upside down. You just have to tilt it a little, and not go over board. And not go real fast, just go smooth and easy... like in the sack.
Not sure how many missions there are, Im on the 3rd. Maybe I can beat it in 5 days, and not have to buy it. But Im digging it so far. Not the 4.5-6.5 its been getting to me, but not the franchise game it was touted to possibly be. So far, Id give it a 7.5-8.
same here and so did rest of my friends who have tried it. im quite enjoying the game for all the dragon dogfights, aerial chase etc, and some of the levels are really addicative.
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