Actually Sony already has them beat. With substantially more sales, even if the ratio were the same, Sony would have the most.
Tommy McClain
Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)
- Thread starter mpg1
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Actually Sony already has them beat. With substantially more sales, even if the ratio were the same, Sony would have the most.
Tommy McClain
Unless rendering becomes a lot smarter rather than stronger.
There's only one hardware rasterizer & ray tracer out there
It's going to take both...
Better hardware and software to be able push graphics/performance to a "next gen" level.
Having mid gen upgrades only makes it worse.
As the visual jump from each machine is lessened even more.
I balk at the sort of specs required to make a visual difference where people would say wow that's huge, like in previous generations. (diminishing returns and all that)
Even with smarter programming, that can't be applied to the previous machine.
As the visual jump from each machine is lessened even more.
I balk at the sort of specs required to make a visual difference where people would say wow that's huge, like in previous generations. (diminishing returns and all that)
Even with smarter programming, that can't be applied to the previous machine.
Sure, but the 'substantial jump' in hardware you suggested may well not need to be be anything above and beyond what's normal. 8x increase in console power would result in diminishing returns, but 8x increase in console power coupled with whole new rendering paradigms and efficiencies could well create the leap in quality we'd want.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
That does seems to be the general drift of technology in both GPUs and CPUs.
trainplane
Newcomer
Keep expectations in check for PS5, Scorpio 2. If the PS5 will be released in 2020-ish, it won't be 6x stronger than PS4Pro. CPU should be much stronger just by using Zen, but it'll still be wattage, cost, and size bound similar to PS4/XBO.
The PS4 Pro is the most powerful console that can be released in 2016 for $400USD. The PS5 will be the strongest console when it releases for $400-500 and the advancement will be commensurate, barring a process breakthrough.
Clever rendering techniques such as checkerboarding, id buffer will be more interesting than the predictable TFLOP arms race.
The PS4 Pro is the most powerful console that can be released in 2016 for $400USD. The PS5 will be the strongest console when it releases for $400-500 and the advancement will be commensurate, barring a process breakthrough.
Clever rendering techniques such as checkerboarding, id buffer will be more interesting than the predictable TFLOP arms race.
The talk of PS5 within the same month of 4Pros release makes me cringe.
I recognize that this is the topic to do it, but I would hope that there are more strategies available to discuss instead of just talking about a stronger and newer console.
That's much like the media talking about the 2020 runnings for US politics and Trump isn't officially president yet. We are way too ahead of ourselves and there is much more to do between the time of 4Pro and PS5.
I recognize that this is the topic to do it, but I would hope that there are more strategies available to discuss instead of just talking about a stronger and newer console.
That's much like the media talking about the 2020 runnings for US politics and Trump isn't officially president yet. We are way too ahead of ourselves and there is much more to do between the time of 4Pro and PS5.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
I think the move to a significantly better CPU like Zen and the introduction of High Bandwidth Memory (HBM2/HBM3) will make more of a difference than the normal / expected increase in GPU Flops as far as what will be possible in next generation games, from graphics to physics to more dynamic worlds & environments. Couple that with smarter programming, better tools,,etc, and I think there's room for at least one more fairly large advancement in games. From 2020 forward. But also, an advancement in controller input / human interface would be really helpful as well, in defining a next generation.
It seems the few developers who are thinking about the next generation and are publicly talking about it want to have more "living" "breathing" and "fluid" worlds.
https://www.videogamer.com/news/pla...ers-build-far-more-dynamic-interactive-worlds (via EDGE).
It seems the few developers who are thinking about the next generation and are publicly talking about it want to have more "living" "breathing" and "fluid" worlds.
https://www.videogamer.com/news/pla...ers-build-far-more-dynamic-interactive-worlds (via EDGE).
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Then why aren't PC gamers petitioning nvidia and AMD to stop iterating gens so much. Graphics technology is driven by the PC side because of the quick pace for the push in performance of that space.
The jump we see with your typical console cycle happens because devs have been waiting for consoles to catch up. The long cycles of consoles actually stymie the act of technology going from drawing board to becoming a standard feature across games.
Usually, the pace of advancement in technology is not inversely related to its rate of release.
I'm not saying mid gen upgrades are bad, In fact I've always been for it personally.
But:PS4 -> PS5 you will see/notice a bigger difference than
PS4 -> 4Pro -> PS5
Sure the flops between PS4 and PS5 may be the same, but it's then an incremental change. You will not see the huge difference because it happened incrementally.
Early days, but are people saying wow 4pro graphics are a huge difference?
That doesn't mean it's not a worthy upgrade though.
Why are you comparing PC gamers with Console gamers?
They are very similar but at the same time very different.
We have different expectations from each industry.
Console gamers like me want to see the hardware to be taken advantage to the fullest, and when the next gen console is launched it is where we want to see the developers show what THAT technology is trully capable off. I am attracted to consoles for the very reasons that consoles unlike PCs are fixed. If PCs and consoles were the same, customers would have been the same and we wouldnt be having consoles.
PC gamers got used to be able to play current games better if they have the budget to do so. NVidia and AMD are competing for that customer. A console manufacturer is thinking about how their next product will elevate the gaming experience from their previous experience and immigrate their user base and others to their prodyct. We are used to perceiving the console like that.
trainplane
Newcomer
The release of the PS4Pro and later Scorpio actually makes me more curious about the future of consoles because today's consoles inform the future in a way that hasn't been true before. It's about ecosystem now, not unrelated hardware every 5-7 years. We're seeing impacts of decisions made today in future hardware such as XBO's use of ESRAM. And it's stuff Sony and MS are likely thinking about and planning already.
- How does Sony handle backward compatibility given how strict they had to be with PS4Pro BC? Will PS5 need PS4 mode and PSPro mode at the hardware level?
- How will cross compatibility work in PS5? My guess is it will be compatible at the API and technical level but not a policy requirement.
- Will these companies need to stick with 8 core CPU's? Will a 4 to 6 core PS5/Scorpio 2 work?
- Will game devs make console games like Crysis that have future hardware in mind? We're seeing some of that now with dynamic resolution.
- Will we see more user in game tuning options? We're starting to see it with PS4Pro games already.
- What about peripherals? We're moving to USB Type-C. Will PS5/Scorpio 2 have dongles to use old controllers or will they not be compatible at all?
Oh, I see what u r saying now.
You won't notice or see a bigger difference, the change just won't be as impactful due to the exposure of advancements being brought forward by Pro and Scorpio.
However, if you are engaged in this hobby enough to visit the internet for anything video game related, you will be readily exposed to continual advancement in graphics technology. It's not like high end PC aren't used to produce bullshots and sped up videos produced at thermonuclear settings to market yet released titles. Ubisoft is famous for it.
Like anybody, I have dreams too. I dream one day that Ubisoft will do a remake of Watch Dogs and it will look and play like those first previews. The Pro and Scorpio makes that dream a little bit more practical. LOL.
That being said, shortening the console iteration times might actually have an positive impact on technological advancement. Because for every Dice, you have devs and pubs like Rockstar that gives 2 %^* about the PC space. Instead of the majority of development dollars for multi platform titles going into 1-2 Tflop devices, we will have 4-6 Tflop consoles vying for those dollars next year and going forward. If the Pro and Scorpio are successful at transitioning over gamers who spend the most on games, the pro and Scorpio may end up serving as the baseline for development in the console space. And it would make more sense to push that tech for all it's worth versus the vanilla skus where the cost conscious and less devoted gamers would reign.
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Yeah console gamers want the hardware to be pushed fully because the hardware was relatively fixed for 4-8 years. The desire for better graphics by gamers is there regardless if the hardware is fixed or not. Shortening the cycle makes it easier for devs to satisfy those desire and allow for greater advancement in the space.
There are multitudes of reasons why PC gamers and console gamers are different, but the desire by console gamers to be blinded by major graphical advancement in 5-8 year chunks is probably not one of them.
Until MS came a board and made in roads with the 360, a lot of advancements and improvement came from Sony and Nintendo intentionally stifling third party devs with poor documentation and tools. I'm pretty glad we saw visuals like in Gears on the 360 in year two instead of years 4 and onward. With MS and now Sony having better and friendlier development environments and the space abandoning novel hardware for more common and well understood PC hardware, advancement later in a gen will end up being more costly or not as large. Shorter iterations will alleviate that circumstance by providing more performance.
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Shortening the cycle and releasing a mid-upgrade every two years are not the same thing
probably. But 5 years is natural, it has never been an issue and it is why we prefered consoles over PCs in teh first place.
Sony and Nintendo were spending on a lot of R&D because 3D technology wasn't as mature. Remember Sega with PowerVR in the DC? Nintendo Game Cube using a custom ATI card? The Sony PS3's Nvidia GPU? They were getting there as GPU technology was advancing and establishing what features were needed and how graphics worked.
It was up to Sega, Nintendo and Sony in the past because graphics weren't as advanced nor standardized as they are today. It was up to them to think what was needed and design a console around those needs. We didnt have an olygopoly of two GPU manufacturers who have set in stone a roadmap and what features the industry wants (Also lets not pretend that the DC, PS2 and GC didnt bring out stunning looking games in their second year as well).
Regardless your argument still appears irrelevant regarding the console gamer's need to upgrade sooner. My 360 and my PS3 were seeing amazing games and improvements even after Gears was released and it shows that these consoles had a lot more to offer in year 1,2,3,4,5 and even 6. Thank God we didnt see a new XBOX after 3 years. We just got Gears 2 in 2008 and the amazing Gears 3 in 2011. And oh boy it was worth it.
Game engines a cross platform, all platforms are standard, hence why I keep saying you can buy fancy middle-range branded desktop PC from MS & Sony, so there's less room for improvement.
We once had high-end consoles with exotic hardware, there was more margin to learn & improve software to use them to their best. x86-64 is a rather well known beast by now, and so is GCN...
(Just saying there's less room for improvement and less incentive too, because all similar hardware and now regular updates...)
We once had high-end consoles with exotic hardware, there was more margin to learn & improve software to use them to their best. x86-64 is a rather well known beast by now, and so is GCN...
(Just saying there's less room for improvement and less incentive too, because all similar hardware and now regular updates...)
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