Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)

[manux]

We suspect (not proven) because its called 4Pro, that when PS5 comes out, the 4Pro will not be able to play PS5 games. As in the expectation is that 5 will be a new generation. Though we expect ps5 can play games backwards compatible though.

That is an option both ms and sony have if the benefit outweights the disadvantage.

Sony has interesting option in breaking compatibility. All ps4 pro games also come out for ps4. PS5 could be ps4 compatible/emulate ps4 versions of games. That way even if ps4 pro wasn't compatible all the users library would still carry over to ps5.

 

[iroboto]

That is an option both ms and sony have if the benefit outweights the disadvantage.

Sony has interesting option in breaking compatibility. All ps4 pro games also come out for ps4. PS5 could be ps4 compatible/emulate ps4 versions of games. That way even if ps4 pro wasn't compatible all the users library would still carry over to ps5.

Both are expected to break forward compatibility eventually. But from the communications from Sony it looks like PS4 generation ends when PS5 begins.

It looks as though XBO could be phased out separately from Scorpio. We will know this answer as soon as we discover the CPU spec for it.

 

[dobwal]

Forward compatibilty? Whats forward compatible about the PS4 or XBO? Games designed specifically for the Pro and Scorpio aren't going to be naturally playable on the the PS4 and XBO.

 

[iroboto]

Forward compatibilty? Whats forward compatible about the PS4 or XBO? Games designed specifically for the Pro and Scorpio aren't going to be naturally playable on the the PS4 and XBO.

But there are no exclusives for Pro or Scorpio. At least the companies have made statements for sure that 4Pro will not contain exclusives. Still too early to determine if MS will casually back track on
this statement. The answer to this will be obvious when the name of the console and spec are released later next year.

So forward compatibility is really all about how long your console will be supported in getting all of that games while newer hardware is released. And as a result of longer term support, owners gain an overall larger library.

Which in this case, 4Pro is tied 1:1 with PS4, that means they also phase out together when PS5 is released. So owning a 4 has significantly longer lifespan (if you bought at launch) than if you bought a 4Pro. Assume 2019 for PS5, 6 years vs 3 years before transition begins.

BC would be buying the next gen console and taking your old library with you. Which I think will be a given for both companies go forward.

 

[Commenter]

I'm not so sure. I mean wouldn't it be annoying if when PS5 comes out you couldn't play Rise of the Tomb Raider in full 4k Glory over checkerboard rendering through a quick patch? Certainly I think there'll be a demand especially if Scorpio owners are already playing the game in 4k.

 

[iroboto]

I'm not so sure. I mean wouldn't it be annoying if when PS5 comes out you couldn't play Rise of the Tomb Raider in full 4k Glory over checkerboard rendering through a quick patch? Certainly I think there'll be a demand especially if Scorpio owners are already playing the game in 4k.

Well I see what you're getting at. If no patches are invested into to move the title forward, we are effectively working with backwards compatibility. Unless there are titles that are being released that are specifically designed to be forward compatible with future hardware or patched to future hardware.

That doesn't get around exclusives for PS5 not coming to 4Pro.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I mean wouldn't it be annoying if when PS5 comes out you couldn't play Rise of the Tomb Raider in full 4k Glory over checkerboard rendering through a quick patch?

Yep. I expect millions of monologues/dialogues like this:

"Damn, I can't believe PS5 can't play RotTR in 4K! Does it? Is this checkerboard rendered? I mean, if I get real close to the TV I can definitely see some dithering, I think, when the camera moves. Hang on, I'll just buy an uncompressed video capture device to record the output and then I can analyse the frames to see if I should be outraged or not."

 

[iroboto]

Yep. I expect millions of monologues/dialogues like this:

"Damn, I can't believe PS5 can't play RotTR in 4K! Does it? Is this checkerboard rendered? I mean, if I get real close to the TV I can definitely see some dithering, I think, when the camera moves. Hang on, I'll just buy an uncompressed video capture device to record the output and then I can analyse the frames to see if I should be outraged or not."

I'm going to sue these guys for false advertising!!

 

[Commenter]

Yep. I expect millions of monologues/dialogues like this:

"Damn, I can't believe PS5 can't play RotTR in 4K! Does it? Is this checkerboard rendered? I mean, if I get real close to the TV I can definitely see some dithering, I think, when the camera moves. Hang on, I'll just buy an uncompressed video capture device to record the output and then I can analyse the frames to see if I should be outraged or not."

Don't underestimate the power of word of mouth. If someone goes into Game and asks "So, which one is better the Pro or the Scorpio?" and they say "Well the Pro is a great machine but the Scorpio can play Street Fighter in native 4K with HDR" Then even if they don't fully understand what that means and you'd have to be pretty thick not to what it means if you own a 4k tv already, they know which is one is the better of the two.

 

[upnorthsox]

So you're saying MS is cornering the idiot gamer crowd?

 

[mpg1]

Forward compatibility is definitely important in the sense of insuring that a console doesn't have a very short lifespan. PS4 Pro seems to have been built to simply up-res PS4 games. Microsoft is taking the same marketing approach as Sony in talking about resolution but actually building Scorpio with a significant enough/all-around enough upgrade that it can one day be the new base model Xbox.

I'm pretty confident of Scorpio acting as a bridge between Xbox One and Scorpio 2. I'm not so confident in PS4 Pro acting as a bridge between PS4 and PS5 simply because of the CPU/memory.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Don't underestimate the power of word of mouth. If someone goes into Game and asks "So, which one is better the Pro or the Scorpio?" and they say "Well the Pro is a great machine but the Scorpio can play Street Fighter in native 4K with HDR" Then even if they don't fully understand what that means and you'd have to be pretty thick not to what it means if you own a 4k tv already, they know which is one is the better of the two.

It counts for next to nothing. The other factors - price, friends/momentum, exclusives, marketing - are what sells a console. All power really provides is a marketing option. It's good for some viral marketing, but we know from history that the most powerful console doesn't sell best just because it's the most powerful, no matter what the sales assistants might say. And as others have pointed out, the sales assistants will push the platform that gives them the best profitability/payback.

 

[iroboto]

Pros and Cons to either method.
With a hard cut over, they can begin leveraging the full technology found in PS5 without reserve at the cost of shortening life spans.

The other method keeps consoles around longer, at the cost of taking longer (in theory) to cut over to new technology.

 

[Globalisateur]

Don't underestimate the power of word of mouth. If someone goes into Game and asks "So, which one is better the Pro or the Scorpio?" and they say "Well the Pro is a great machine but the Scorpio can play Street Fighter in native 4K with HDR" Then even if they don't fully understand what that means and you'd have to be pretty thick not to what it means if you own a 4k tv already, they know which is one is the better of the two.

Resolution of Street Fighter 5 on XB1 / Scorpio via BC: 0p / 0p

Resolution of Street Fighter 5 on PS4 / Pro : 1080p / at least 1080p

 

[Commenter]

Street Fighter 5 Ultra Turbo X Alpha Championship edition obviously.

 

[iroboto]

Resolution of Street Fighter 5 on XB1 / Scorpio via BC: 0p / 0p

Resolution of Street Fighter 5 on PS4 / Pro : 1080p / at least 1080p

Lol haha. Yea that was a pretty bad example. I didn't catch that.

 

[zupallinere]

'uncompressed pixels'

Uncompressed Pixels is one of the better 2 word jokes I've heard since "Pretentious, Moi ?"

 

[dobwal]

But there are no exclusives for Pro or Scorpio. At least the companies have made statements for sure that 4Pro will not contain exclusives. Still too early to determine if MS will casually back track on
this statement. The answer to this will be obvious when the name of the console and spec are released later next year.

So forward compatibility is really all about how long your console will be supported in getting all of that games while newer hardware is released. And as a result of longer term support, owners gain an overall larger library.

Which in this case, 4Pro is tied 1:1 with PS4, that means they also phase out together when PS5 is released. So owning a 4 has significantly longer lifespan (if you bought at launch) than if you bought a 4Pro. Assume 2019 for PS5, 6 years vs 3 years before transition begins.

BC would be buying the next gen console and taking your old library with you. Which I think will be a given for both companies go forward.

I understand your point regarding future support of the current hardware, I just have an issue of your use of the term "forward compatibility". Maybe a better term would be "future compatibility".

Games going forward will be explicitly designed to be cross compatible with the current consoles and at some point these older consoles will lose that support. But the current hardware is not something I would consider to be forward compatible.

 

[iroboto]

I understand your point regarding future support of the current hardware, I just have an issue of your use of the term "forward compatibility". Maybe a better term would be "future compatibility".

Games going forward will be explicitly designed to be cross compatible with the current consoles and at some point these older consoles will lose that support. But the current hardware is not something I would consider to be forward compatible.

Right, yea I get that. We should come up with a better term. Something that people would understand immediately without mis stating the hardware itself.

 

[dobwal]

Right, yea I get that. We should come up with a better term. Something that people would understand immediately without mis stating the hardware itself.

All in all, I consider future compatibility to be a moot point. Devs will simply chase the userbase and the broadness of their target audience will come down to how much it costs to widen their target. The current userbase for the ps4 and xb1 is somewhere north of 70 million (I guess), the release of the Pro and Scorpio isn't going to kill that userbase overnight. And with the Slims there is no guarantee that the current users will shrink as fast as the Pro/Scorpio grows. Both MS and Sony are committed to sell a certain amount of Slims or else simply lose money on both endeavors. That's going to provide an upward pressure on the price of the Scorpio and Pro and Sony and MS will try to balance the demand of both of their skus to ensure they meet their volume commitments to AMD.

Come the release of the PS5 and Xbox Two, I'd bet we will see what we saw at the start of the current gen. And that's support across older and new gen consoles until the new gen builds an appreciable amount of it own users. You may see xbo and ps4 support phase out earlier than Scorpio and Pro support but that will be because those userbases are relatively too small to be profitable or worthwhile.