Curioius to see if Neo will even launch this year. It's getting kind of late to announce a launch this fall. If neo comes out in the spring, I'm not sure Xbox Scorpio coming out in the fall of 2017 is going to be that big a deal, especially if they start releasing more information and can successfully generate consumer interest. If Neo does release this fall, than a full year head start will do them well, especially if the backwards/forwards compatibility story adds up. We're pretty much running on zero information about how it's going to work at this point, since they haven't actually given any details since announcing it to the media. I think as long as it's handled reasonably well, they won't shake their consumer confidence and people will be happy to stick with Playstation if they already have a PS4. They should be able to maintain their userbase.
Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)
- Thread starter mpg1
- Start date
We don't know everything, but there's been a LOT of official info from interviews at E3, about how the FC/BC is going to work (but I agree with the rest of your post):
- PS4 and Neo are the same generation
- All games will continue to be made for PS4 for the rest of the generation
- PS4 generation lifespan will not be shorter because of Neo
- All or at least the vast majority of existing PS4 games will work immediately on Neo
- New games released will provide enhancements on Neo
- Some existing games will get patches, not all of them, Neo enhancements are not automatic
- This mid-gen update is the only one that will happen for the rest of the generation
- Neo games can provide higher frame rate, and/or resolution, and/or pixel quality
- It's up to the devs to decide how the additional power will be used
- 4K will be available for media playback and games
Personally I don't have any remaining question. Other than a games list and a comparison video, preferably from Digital Foundry.
yea, my point was more so that ms going the monster route, with what could be a monster price(even maybe having to subsidized) may not been on their radar.
even releasing later its a pretty big spec.
so even knowing what's available doesn't mean not very surprised at the direction taken.
be interesting the bom for both consoles, and how much sold for
We don't know everything, but there's been a LOT of official info from interviews at E3, about how the FC/BC is going to work (but I agree with the rest of your post):
- PS4 and Neo are the same generation
- All games will continue to be made for PS4 for the rest of the generation
- PS4 generation lifespan will not be shorter because of Neo
- All or at least the vast majority of existing PS4 games will work immediately on Neo
- New games released will provide enhancements on Neo
- Some existing games will get patches, not all of them, Neo enhancements are not automatic
- This mid-gen update is the only one that will happen for the rest of the generation
- Neo games can provide higher frame rate, and/or resolution, and/or pixel quality
- It's up to the devs to decide how the additional power will be used
- 4K will be available for media playback and games
Personally I don't have any remaining question. Other than a games list and a comparison video, preferably from Digital Foundry.
Well, I guess my question is does the generation last 3 years, 4 years, 5 years after Neo is released? When PS5 comes out, is it FC/BC with Neo? I don't fully understand the value proposition of Neo without knowing how it relates to PS5, or whatever comes after. Do both PS4 and Neo get deprecated at the same time, or will Neo continue to get games at some point where PS4 does not (Neo base spec, PS5 premium spec?) There also seems to be different talk about PS4 Neo and PS4 in terms of compatibility and whether you can just put a PS4 disc in a Neo and have it run without an update. I'm not sure it's clear either way. It's definitely true that games under development now should support both Neo and PS4 and it would be the same disc/download for both.
To me, that's quite a bit of uncertainty in Neo offering value for money. But like I said, those questions can all be easily answered, and those answers will determine the success, adoption of Neo whenever it launches.
Microsoft has to answer a lot of the same questions.
Yep, patch requirement for old games is unclear, they only talked about "neo enhancement patches".
I'm also curious to know if PS5 will force developers to make games FC to Neo (or xb1-3 with scorpio), but they can't decide this now, they can't make promises about next gen. It depends on sales, competitors, technology, third parties... PS5 isn't coming out until at least 2019 if we trust the statement about a normal generation being around 6 years. That's good enough for me to make an informed decision, once we know the price/specs/titles. I don't think either Sony or MS will ever make a promise about next gen. They might say a vague PR like "this is what we're aiming for", or "this is the general idea". It's an experiment that might need some readjustment, and the third parties will have a lot of influence about it.
I think it should not be decided now anyway, because suppose there's a major advantage to ditch FC next gen, I'd much prefer they do that. If keeping FC works for the devs without too much inconvenience, that's great too. Imagine if Neo have no SSD and PS5 have one, there's a big road block for making a game engine streaming assets. Maybe there will be a major shift toward nVidia, maybe ARM becomes awesome, maybe AMD goes bankrupt, maybe a recompile is necessary. Developers riots. Zombies.
Since I'll upgrade to PS5 anyway, BC is a much more important factor, it's my biggest frustration about the PS4. I would have paid over $100 for some BC module, which Sony patented but never made.
I'm also curious to know if PS5 will force developers to make games FC to Neo (or xb1-3 with scorpio), but they can't decide this now, they can't make promises about next gen. It depends on sales, competitors, technology, third parties... PS5 isn't coming out until at least 2019 if we trust the statement about a normal generation being around 6 years. That's good enough for me to make an informed decision, once we know the price/specs/titles. I don't think either Sony or MS will ever make a promise about next gen. They might say a vague PR like "this is what we're aiming for", or "this is the general idea". It's an experiment that might need some readjustment, and the third parties will have a lot of influence about it.
I think it should not be decided now anyway, because suppose there's a major advantage to ditch FC next gen, I'd much prefer they do that. If keeping FC works for the devs without too much inconvenience, that's great too. Imagine if Neo have no SSD and PS5 have one, there's a big road block for making a game engine streaming assets. Maybe there will be a major shift toward nVidia, maybe ARM becomes awesome, maybe AMD goes bankrupt, maybe a recompile is necessary. Developers riots. Zombies.
Since I'll upgrade to PS5 anyway, BC is a much more important factor, it's my biggest frustration about the PS4. I would have paid over $100 for some BC module, which Sony patented but never made.
I don't think they'll have the option to explain PS5 at a later date. People are going to want to know, and the question is going to be asked. If they dodge answering, people will be upset. I don't think, "We'll answer that after you've spent your money on Neo," will be good enough. Internally, they should have an answer now, and it should be a design spec for PS5 now if that's the way forward. I imagine work will start on PS5 right after Neo is launched, if it hasn't already started being planned loosely.
Neo will most likely launch at $400 if PS4 is down to $250 when it launches. For $400 to be any kind of a sane purchase, people will want to know it's going to last them more than three years. It's a different thing to buy a late-gen $200-300 PS4 and get three years out of it. Right now some people are map that they think their PS4 is going to be obsolete, even though the product is going to have a full life of at least 6 years from launch. How happy will they be if they buy a Neo that lasts three years? The only way mid-gen updates makes any sense is if the mid-gen update lasts a full five years minimum from launch. If a product tanks, there's nothing you can do, but replace it, but I don't think Sony consumers would expect a successful product like playstation to have such a short shelf life.
Not having an answer to these questions will be a massive massive mistake when they formally unveil Neo.
Neo will most likely launch at $400 if PS4 is down to $250 when it launches. For $400 to be any kind of a sane purchase, people will want to know it's going to last them more than three years. It's a different thing to buy a late-gen $200-300 PS4 and get three years out of it. Right now some people are map that they think their PS4 is going to be obsolete, even though the product is going to have a full life of at least 6 years from launch. How happy will they be if they buy a Neo that lasts three years? The only way mid-gen updates makes any sense is if the mid-gen update lasts a full five years minimum from launch. If a product tanks, there's nothing you can do, but replace it, but I don't think Sony consumers would expect a successful product like playstation to have such a short shelf life.
Not having an answer to these questions will be a massive massive mistake when they formally unveil Neo.
I also imagine that the fate of PSVR also may be part of the PS5 plans as well. Would they spend some silicon on making PSVR version 2 something to write home about, maybe even a wireless version with some UWB or LiFi protocol. If the PSVR or VR in general turns out to have a much longer gestation period for profitability then maybe some stuff may be dropped in favor of others.
Also the design of the NEO SOC may give us an idea of the opinions that Sony has on future consoles should they in fact exist as something like a PS console, as opposed to various services with gadgets as endpoints or some such.
I think for Sony we have to look at six distinct consoles:
PS4
PS4 + PSVR
PSNeo
PSNeo + PSVR
PS5
PS5 + PSVR
I'm guessing software support will drop off for PS4 before anything else and support for PSNeo + PSVR will last longer than support for PS4Neo. There are a number of permutations for those six platforms but I think only a few make good business sense.
PS4
PS4 + PSVR
PSNeo
PSNeo + PSVR
PS5
PS5 + PSVR
I'm guessing software support will drop off for PS4 before anything else and support for PSNeo + PSVR will last longer than support for PS4Neo. There are a number of permutations for those six platforms but I think only a few make good business sense.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
My expectation is that Neo has backwards compatibility with PS4. It would be untenable for Sony to expects devs to patch every existing PS4 game. Some of the dev houses don't even exist anymore.
My take is that the Neo will release this year and the PS5 in 2019. When the PS5 is released it will be fully backwards compatible with the PS4/Neo so you should be able to play all your PS4 titles on the PS5. But going forward I expect there to be specific titles made for PS5 only.
From 2020-2021 we will see support for the PS4/Neo drying up to the point that we will only see PS5 versions of games going forward. See below:
2013 - PS4 releases
2016 - Neo releases
2019 - PS5 releases with a handfull of PS5 exclusive games
2021 - PS4/Neo games stop being produced.
This means that the PS4 will have been supported for 7 years, the Neo for 4 years and the PS5 will have a full catalogue of all PS4/Neo games as well as a growing specific catalogue of it's own exclusive PS5 games.
From 2020-2021 we will see support for the PS4/Neo drying up to the point that we will only see PS5 versions of games going forward. See below:
2013 - PS4 releases
2016 - Neo releases
2019 - PS5 releases with a handfull of PS5 exclusive games
2021 - PS4/Neo games stop being produced.
This means that the PS4 will have been supported for 7 years, the Neo for 4 years and the PS5 will have a full catalogue of all PS4/Neo games as well as a growing specific catalogue of it's own exclusive PS5 games.
A load of u-turns since reveal suggests otherwise, the biggest being the Kinect being dropped. It's like Sony with all the fan service games - keeping The Last Guardian 'alive', helping to bring back Shenmue (etc)...it seems these days they are listening and reacting to what fans want more and more
The internet certain provides the fastest form of both feedback and return on investment in marketing. If you're curious reading ZMOT (Zero Moment of Truth) is part of the job interview for data services at Google. Explains how putting information out there and forums and reviews go a long way to validating our purchases well before they step into the store.
Both companies have certainly been much more reactive than before. But once again that reinforces my feelings about the silEnce about Neo messaging from Sony.
The shenmue, FFXR, TLG, crash etc: all show both competency in listening to the customer and delivering on the goods, got to be a strong reason to be withholding Neo.
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Michellstar
Regular
Those U-turns are not knee jerk reactions, are adapting to market realities.
Which is a good thing
Kinect was dropped once the initial sales plummeted after launch holidays, and many others like dropping the strict DRM was because competition.
Yes, listening to customers is a good thing, I´m not denying that.
Maybe it´s a matter of the wording, lol
I'm having fun thinking about this mid-gen problem. There's 6 basic models of platform continuity:
- Complete generation reset.
- New generations having only BC.
- Tick-Tock mid-gen cycle, new gens only have BC, mid-gen forces FC, technically the same generation.
- Rolling mid-gen cycle, has BC and every iteration forces FC for one previous hardware.
- Free mid-gen cycle, it's up to the devs to decides if they do FC or not. Dropped based on user base decline.
- No generation, like PC or smartphones. Testing target is only the popular models. Yearly hardware.
Epic Boss is in love with Neo and Scorpio and the prospect of their philosophy. "The idea of doing everything from scratch every seven years is completely crazy"
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-prospect-of-playstation-neo-and-xbox-scorpio
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-prospect-of-playstation-neo-and-xbox-scorpio
Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
I'm having fun thinking about this mid-gen problem. There's 6 basic models of platform continuity:
My favorite is definitely tick-tock with new hardware every 3 or 4 years (6-8 years generations). But many gamers would probably want Rolling, while devs would want Free. Can't please everyone. Also each one of these three options is a PR clusterfuck.
- Complete generation reset.
- New generations having only BC.
- Tick-Tock mid-gen cycle, new gens only have BC, mid-gen forces FC, technically the same generation.
- Rolling mid-gen cycle, has BC and every iteration forces FC for one previous hardware.
- Free mid-gen cycle, it's up to the devs to decides if they do FC or not. Dropped based on user base decline.
- No generation, like PC or smartphones. Testing target is only the popular models. Yearly hardware.
I don't think there's really any need for confusion or disgruntlement. If you want to play PS4 games, you can buy a PS4 or a PS4Neo. If you want to play XboxOne games, you can buy an XboxOne or a Scorpio. If you own a base version of either console and want more powerful hardware, you can upgrade.
I don't see why people seem to think the Neo and Scorpio should, at some point, become the new baseline. The point is often raised that people want games to be made for that hardware for 6 or so years. That point is somewhat skewed because, if the next generation of consoles release in 2019, the PS4/Neo and the XboxOne/Scorpio will both have access to 6 years worth of content. And that's if development immediately stopped for the PS4 and XboxOne, which it certainly won't do if backwards compatibility comes as standard.
If you don't want to buy new hardware after only 3 or 4 years, don't get the mid-gen refreshes, just get the games.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
PSVR will release October 2016.
You're suggesting Sony would sell a VR headset that is not compatible with their current >40 million (by then probably >50 million) user base?
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