Poll: Buying XB1 revisited post DRM change

How has the DRM change affected you?


  • Total voters
    114
I for one am slightly less likely to buy an Xbox One now that the DRM has changed. I was actually looking forward to the 10 family member library sharing, being able to potentially play 2 instances of 1 copy of a game simultaneously with someone in that 10 family member group, playing any game at anytime on any Xbox no matter how I purchased the game.

Bleh, I love how a very small vocal minority can keep us in the dark ages of gaming.

Ah well, it only delays inevitable progress. At some point those people will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future, just as has happened throughout the history of gaming.

This has pretty much guaranteed that if I do end up getting an Xbox One it will be almost entirely for the living room experience and likely not for the games.


Regards,
SB

Ahem...do u have a ps3? You can do that right now without anybody dragging you kicking and screaming into the future. If you were going to buy an Xboxone for that, you can get it for much lesser cost already.
And if you want to go totally digital, what is stopiing you right now? I haven't bought a disc in the last two years, yet I have played every AAA title on my ps3. Yu don't need restrictive DRMs and 24 hour checks to do all that!

Stop being weird B3D. I want games on my hdd, so that I don't swap discs, hence i buy DD versions for all games. Nobody had drag me into the future. The future is already here. Stop beilieving PR bullshit.
 
I certainly can't see 3rd party developed and published games getting access to Azure for free from MS for the XB1 version of games. Reality check guys... this is MS we're talking about. Why would they foot the bill for cloud compute time for every 3rd party game developed on their platform? I find it incredibly naive that anyone would think that they would.

MS will charge publishers for the use of their Azure servers just as any third party network back-end would. It's a bit silly to assume otherwise imho, especially for a company that charges indie developers tens of thousands of dollars just to patch their own games. :???:

Of course game devs have to pay for cloud usage. But they would have to pay other dedicated server farms as well. But in this case, they would have to estimate how much server they need which could be a high risk and ineffective. What Respawn vid explains is that you somehow have access to a dynamic load balance dedicated server system provided via the cloud.

To me it seems that this is a big advantage and should lower substantially the cost of dedicated servers for a game dev.
 
MS has made exceptions in the past with regards to the payment required for a game patch. I'd imagine it was for something that was potentially critically affecting their customer base.

Anyway, as to the cloud thing. I can think of one reason why MS would potentially waive cloud hosting fees. Make your game exclusive and use the cloud for free for the life of the game. As a bonus we'll even allow you to use it for free for your PC version. If they go for a timed exclusive then it's free during the exclusivity period, discounted on MS platforms after that, and full price if used with a competitor's platform.

Regards,
SB

Sure, I would wholly expect that to be the case for some kind of exclusivity deal with MS. I could also imagine MS offering free use of their serveers for games they have exclusivity deals with on DLC and additional content, e.g. COD and BF. It would be in their interests to leverage exclusive cloud functionality in MP orientated games to try to gain a leg up over Sony and claim some legitimacy in their versions of those 3rd party MP games being the definitive console versions.

In the end though, unless all you care about it online MP games I fail to see how MS' cloud and cloud compute will benefit you in this coming gen in any meaningful way.
 
In the end though, unless all you care about it online MP games I fail to see how MS' cloud and cloud compute will benefit you in this coming gen in any meaningful way.

Which is why it's a good thing you aren't a game developer. :) Even game developers that aren't using the cloud for their launch titles are looking at ways in which the cloud can enhance their games. DICE for instance didn't have time to incorporate cloud computing into Battlefield 4, but are looking at using it for their games in the future. The same goes for the team developing Watch Dogs at UBIsoft. Not enough time to use it for Watch Dogs, but they are seriously looking at incorporating the cloud for any future titles.

And when they talk about incorporating cloud computing that's exactly what they mean. Computing and NOT just dedicated servers for MP.

Regards,
SB
 
The problem is that pretty much all consoles (and definitely all modern consoles) have thus far been compromised at some point.

...if I can compromise your console, then your 24/h check is garbage, as I can compromise it as well and you (console) can't do any thing...
 
...if I can compromise your console, then your 24/h check is garbage, as I can compromise it as well and you (console) can't do any thing...

Really? And just how are you going to do that?

The main point of exploitation on the X360 is via flashing the DVD drive in order to make the DVD drive ignore the fact that the disk's contents aren't properly signed. At which points it allows the system to read it as if it was a legitimate disk.

With an online check that avenue of exploitation is made completely irrelevant. Which means that other than a small window of machines that were JTAG capable (an exploit that was closed quite a few years ago), an online check would make it impossible to run pirated games on the X360 as the online check would check your account to see whether you actually had the right to run that game.

Regards,
SB
 
Amazon are, allegedly, reporting a 7:1 pre-order ratio in favour of the PS4 - that is since the DRM debacle.
 
other than a small window of machines that were JTAG capable (an exploit that was closed quite a few years ago), an online check would make it impossible to run pirated games on the X360 as the online check would check

Does it do all the check in the fixed bootloader sequence? If so, you are right. I need JTAG, or some equal way.

If you check it after the boot sequence, any kernel sploit will put me on top of that.
And then the machine is mine, which means that the online check would never happen.

edit:
Every thread is like this. No more arguing please, the DRM is gone now :eek:
hehe, sorry, saw it too late^^
 
I think MS has already shown their cards for where they intend to go this gen WRT DRM and consumer rights. Just as quickly as they were able to "pull the plug" on 24hour check-in and no used games, they can just as quickly revert back to their original intent (or worse).

This negative reaction is not just "some small percent / forum warriors" as many like to portray. Check the preorder numbers. Surprise Surprise, people don't like the direction MS is headed with the xbone. Not just "forum warriors". Not just "Sony fanboys". Not just "anti-MS haterz".

Sorry, but the majority of the decisions WRT xbone are a cluster____.

From policy to architecture to design.

The whole thing.


If they truly wanted to grow their existing base (and scoop a good number of ps fans as well) they would have extended the xb360 experience...

Back compat (not seeing the "huge win" going to jag cores, nor did I hear much complaining regarding ppc arch software development difficulty)
at least as powerful as ps4
zero lag Kinect (perceived)
finger tracking (high res (+zoom?))
$400-$500 MSRP (multi-sku)
No mandatory kinect, internet


Following this guideline would see a strong reversal of the poll trends we've seen to date. Eventually, we'd get to cloud compute and MS could do their checking for every box that is connected (not mandatory) and (most) everyone would be happy. As is, mass exedus.
 
I actually do believe that a large substantial part of the people who buy consoles at launch (and go through the effort of actually pre-ordering one) are to a certain degree the more core-gamers and loyalists (and perhaps forum warriors to a degree). But, this market is important. If they don't show the support and go and pre-order one, they set a dangerous presedent for the more casuals that might follow.

Think of it like a snowball system. One buyer buys something, tells his friends about it and they in turn become potential buyers. If you can't get the ball rolling at a sufficient speed, the whole forward motion doesn't take off. In other words, success attracts success. Everyone buys the next iPhone because everyone (figuratively speaking) wants one - why? Because it's a successful atractive product. No one cares that there are Android phones that can do more or have better specs. If suddenly the next iPhone doesn't kick off with blazing sales and the press reports on that, then everyone will start to question why and be more careful before they jump to the next iteration of the product.

I believe a large part of that is relevant to any product. Bad press isn't necessarely good, especially if there are reports of people flocking to a different product. That can quickly head towards a negative spiral which has a big impact on the more casual crowd that buys what is successful. That is precicely the problem when you are to a degree abandoning your loyal fanbase in persuit of a more lucrative bigger casual market at a trade-off.
 
There's a lot of time till launch. These figures will change once people start seeing game advertisements and Xbone advertisements with voice activated stuff.

They need to promote more games and less cloud. And stop the PR, because they are not doing it in a positive way.
 
The Next Generation doesn't start until Microsoft says it does. ;)
People keep throwing around the phrase "vocal minority." I'm sorry, big companies don't just change policies merely a week after announcement just because of a few loudmouths. They have the pre-order numbers. If anything, it's a vocal minority that supported them.

I didn't buy that their "family sharing" was anything but a poorly thought out concept. The company that placed what's free to the free world -- you-fracking-tube and a webbrowser -- behind a pay wall, wasn't going allow 10 people unlimited play for a single purchase. That's just dumb business.
 
What do you mean tkf? If I understood them correctly, activating the box is but connecting it to the internet so you can patch the firmware yourself from day one. I am surprised by the fact that they can't patch it before themselves. Am I missing anything?

MS stated there was always going to be a Day 1 update/ patch due to manufacturing timelines. They simply added this change to the already existing Day update. Sorry, no linky.
 
The connectivity requirement for check-in, per Microsoft's own description, would guarantee something ranging from high-end broadband to a few seconds tethered to a mobile phone for a paltry number of kilobytes.
The former is great, the latter is just as good as connecting the console to a tin can with a taut string.

That's fine, the point is to guarantee a connection then devs can support it even if it's just latency friendly type computation. The idea is to get everyone on board and get ideas flowing and see what develops. No one here, myself included, knows what can come of cloud tech, but to discover new ideas means it has to be standard. I don't think it will go away, like I mentioned I fully expect 1st parties to make use of it, it's just the progress will be slowed because of this due to less devs committed to it. That's because it's brutally difficult to get everyone on board to support non standard features. Try it sometime in a meeting, pitch an idea using anything non standard on a console and see what happens.


I can't believe that your only motivation to buy a One was its DRM functionality...what about all the other stuff...e.g. err, never interested in the actual games?? And why in hell turn to PC, just better graphics, but all the Live functionality and convenience gone...does not compute and again seems quite overreacting?!?

It was always a borderline purchase for me. I'm not really interested in a box that just plays games, but was considering one for cloud and Kinect since those are something new and not available on pc, and the family sharing thing was a great idea that let me spoil young family members around the country, although even then I hadn't committed. When my wife pre-ordered one I figured ok I'll get to try it after all. With family sharing gone and cloud possibly compromised it became mostly a Kinect thing for me. I just really feel you need 3rd parties 100% on board to make something shine and I don't totally believe they will be on board with cloud anymore, although hopefully I'm wrong there. In any case I lost much interest in the machine after the changes as did my wife so she cancelled the pre-order. Kinect is interesting but I'll see what develops there before considering one again. Outside of that I just don't see the point in spending money on a box that just plays games, my pc outclasses it for such use so why bother? What can I say, these consoles aren't launching into an empty market anymore, so a device that just plays games is a very hard sell to us especially when it doesn't even do that as well as a pc can.

Having said that if they bring back the family sharing plan, or if cloud and Kinect really bring something cool to the table then I'll buy one. I'll keep an eye on it and see what develops.


...what makes you think 3rd parties would have actively supported the cloud if the better selling PS4 (with a bigger marketplace) doesn't offer such a feature? The lowest-common-denominator thingy you know. That is assuming, the DRM (and/or other reasons) had a bigger impact (if through bad/unfair press, who knows) on sales resulting in PS4 outselling Xbox One? At this point, I'm not sure that potential was really there to beginn with.

Because there at least is some reason for a company to stay current on the tech curve if others are doing it. With optional features like Kinect on the 360 you could safely ignore it knowing that all your competitors were doing the same thing. With cloud standard if you ignore it you risk getting left behind. It's a future play, they would risk being far behind deeper in to the generation, and then risk being in an even worse spot if it was standard on both machines next gen. They would have years of r&d to catch up on. You have to make judgment calls on what to support and what tech to go with, part of that means looking at what your competitors are doing to not be left in a bubble.

Now with only Microsoft 1st parties guaranteed to use cloud means there is less incentive to hop on board because heck even if Microsoft's research drums up something amazingly new and cool they would now likely offer it to all third parties anyways just to have a competitive edge over their competition. So now 3rd parties may as well save their dev dollars and let Microsoft do all the work, it's not like 3rd party X really has to worry that 3rd part Y will be feverishly working on cloud tech anyways. Again, hopefully I'm wrong here and everyone is spending r&d money on cloud.

As far as the potential of cloud, like I mentioned above no one knows what can come of it, it's a new idea that needs new thinking and new ideas. That takes serious manpower and years to come up with something cool. It'll come, I just think the future has all been delayed. I need to do some informal polls with old colleagues of mine. I saw some at e3 and interest in cloud was high because it was a standard out of the box thing that everyone had. Basically everyone has internet, everyone has cloud, let's go! I haven't spoken to people about it since Microsoft's reversal though, I'd be curious to see how many plans have changed because of this as it means the direction and audience of the xb1 has changed as well.
 
I actually do believe that a large substantial part of the people who buy consoles at launch (and go through the effort of actually pre-ordering one) are to a certain degree the more core-gamers and loyalists (and perhaps forum warriors to a degree). But, this market is important. If they don't show the support and go and pre-order one, they set a dangerous presedent for the more casuals that might follow.

Think of it like a snowball system. One buyer buys something, tells his friends about it and they in turn become potential buyers. If you can't get the ball rolling at a sufficient speed, the whole forward motion doesn't take off. In other words, success attracts success. Everyone buys the next iPhone because everyone (figuratively speaking) wants one - why? Because it's a successful atractive product. No one cares that there are Android phones that can do more or have better specs. If suddenly the next iPhone doesn't kick off with blazing sales and the press reports on that, then everyone will start to question why and be more careful before they jump to the next iteration of the product.

I believe a large part of that is relevant to any product. Bad press isn't necessarely good, especially if there are reports of people flocking to a different product. That can quickly head towards a negative spiral which has a big impact on the more casual crowd that buys what is successful. That is precicely the problem when you are to a degree abandoning your loyal fanbase in persuit of a more lucrative bigger casual market at a trade-off.


Agreed with everything you state. However, many of the gamers that would not be considered "core/hardcore" do have core friends that are going to purchase a nextgen system (ps4 or xbone). Obviously they keep in contact. Negative impressions of xbone by "core" gamers telling their friends and thus changing their mind for eventual purchases is what was at play here. Pre-orders tell us what core gamers are interested in, and with ever connected society we live in, that was/is going to have a material affect on those that were not planning to pre-order, but would follow the advice of their core gaming buds about which new platform to get so they can continue gaming online together.

In other words, just because pre-orders are just a tally of core gamers doesn't mean that sentiment isn't carrying over to "non-core" gamers which would eventually be interested in nextgen gaming.

Honestly if this DRM BS was their intention, they missed a huge opportunity to drive xbone home at $199 (subsidized) with 2-3y xbl.
 
Because there at least is some reason for a company to stay current on the tech curve if others are doing it. With optional features like Kinect on the 360 you could safely ignore it knowing that all your competitors were doing the same thing. With cloud standard if you ignore it you risk getting left behind. It's a future play, they would risk being far behind deeper in to the generation, and then risk being in an even worse spot if it was standard on both machines next gen. They would have years of r&d to catch up on. You have to make judgment calls on what to support and what tech to go with, part of that means looking at what your competitors are doing to not be left in a bubble.

Now with only Microsoft 1st parties guaranteed to use cloud means there is less incentive to hop on board because heck even if Microsoft's research drums up something amazingly new and cool they would now likely offer it to all third parties anyways just to have a competitive edge over their competition. So now 3rd parties may as well save their dev dollars and let Microsoft do all the work, it's not like 3rd party X really has to worry that 3rd part Y will be feverishly working on cloud tech anyways. Again, hopefully I'm wrong here and everyone is spending r&d money on cloud.

As far as the potential of cloud, like I mentioned above no one knows what can come of it, it's a new idea that needs new thinking and new ideas. That takes serious manpower and years to come up with something cool. It'll come, I just think the future has all been delayed. I need to do some informal polls with old colleagues of mine. I saw some at e3 and interest in cloud was high because it was a standard out of the box thing that everyone had. Basically everyone has internet, everyone has cloud, let's go! I haven't spoken to people about it since Microsoft's reversal though, I'd be curious to see how many plans have changed because of this as it means the direction and audience of the xb1 has changed as well.

There's nothing in there I actually disagree with, although you haven't really responded to what I was pointing out.

If, hypothetically, they would have continued on their path with DRM and consumers being guaranteed online, they might have lost respectable marketshare (if we are to believe all indications), which might turn out a scenario where the already likely more powerful and easier to develop for PS4 might be lead platform. Even if it isn't - it still stands to question how much resources would be devoted to a feature that is only found on one platform and does not necessarely result in more sales.

Your point is that because it's a defacto feature, everyone would have to assume everyone else is using, thus, by not wanting to be left behind, they would have to put resources behind it. Well, that depends on how large the market is and what potential there is. If the potential is not all that great or costs too many resources in light of only being able to use them on one platform, I question how 'cool' and 'revolutionary' those features would end up being in the first place. I'm also not sure that any cloud-features that might be used or not, would be potential deal brakers to consumers when they get a new game. They might be wowed by the new possibilities enabled by the cloud, but that wouldn't make other games worse. They might just be different, just as today different games among the same genre offer different experiences. I see the potential, but I'm not sure that potential is that big to come at a significant hit in sales (after all, Cloud features would be non-latency dependant anyway), especially when you have the fact that the other platform (that being the PS4) does not offer something like that.

Then the most important point still remains: Would using cloud be free for 3rd party developers? Because if it isn't - that potential also comes down to a choice, a choice that is further unlikely if the other platform doesn't support it at all. By your own logic - why invest money in a feature that is not available on other platform. If anything, I bet games would be created using the lowest common denominator, then they would focus on the extra features offered by the console and add it to that version as exclusive content. Just like some multiplatform games offer special support for the six-axis controls on the PS3 - they are not deal-brakers and not integral to the game-play experience. Just a nice touch, that's all. And when we are talking about cloud support, I would think actually developing ways to use that comes at a much higher substantial cost than simply adding support for some move-sensors.
 
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