PlayStation Move technology thread
- Thread starter messyman
- Start date
That's an interesting point. How can EyePet get the right perspective to integrate objects if it hasn't got the card to evaluate?
Yap, imagine the 3D version.
Dr. Marks and his team have spent close to a decade working on natural interface gaming. It is a crime to throw away all his experiences in this area (even if he's the one who threw it away
). Many of the things we talked about in the Kinect thread has been done in PSEye before. They should carry the experience forward, and stack PS Move on top.
If Sony only takes one advice from each gamer, I think they should take my comments on "saving" PSEye. They can even take R3 away if they can do more justice to PSEye (coz I know Kittonwy and folks will demand for R3 back ^_^).
The only saving grace so far is this little rumor about a 3D PSEye camera and chat app. Hope to see more soon.
Dr. Marks and his team have spent close to a decade working on natural interface gaming. It is a crime to throw away all his experiences in this area (even if he's the one who threw it away
). Many of the things we talked about in the Kinect thread has been done in PSEye before. They should carry the experience forward, and stack PS Move on top.If Sony only takes one advice from each gamer, I think they should take my comments on "saving" PSEye. They can even take R3 away if they can do more justice to PSEye (coz I know Kittonwy and folks will demand for R3 back ^_^).
The only saving grace so far is this little rumor about a 3D PSEye camera and chat app. Hope to see more soon.
I've just had a cunning idea!!! The lighting in augmented reality is always broken, which harms the illusion. The way pro's get lighting information is with photographing a sphere that captures ambient light in 360 degrees to make a spherical light map. Well what do we have on the end of the Move wand? A mid-grey sphere, just right for capturing a spherical light-map! You could take a few samples from it at distance to build up a rough lightmap of the area, and that should make composition much, much better.
I had an idea this afternoon too, but a lot more humble than yours.
[size=-2]I wanted to use PS Move rumble as a back massager. No, seriously.[/size]
Regarding your idea, I always thought they should make a custom stand for PS Move for improved lighting, and now for your technique too.
[size=-2]I wanted to use PS Move rumble as a back massager. No, seriously.[/size]
Regarding your idea, I always thought they should make a custom stand for PS Move for improved lighting, and now for your technique too.
PlayStation Move Tech Interview: Anton Mikhailov Aug 20, 2010 (Gamespot)
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/thefightlightsout/video/6273288
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/thefightlightsout/video/6273288
There's a demo on the Playstation blog as well. Not really much new in that (except its sitting down and with reflective tvs all around in field of view) but note the comments - Anton's answering a lot of them and is still at it! Even answered one of mine ...
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010...tech-demo-video-tour/comment-page-4/#comments
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010...tech-demo-video-tour/comment-page-4/#comments
Gradthrawn
Veteran
Thanks for the link. Some pretty candid answers too, such as a speaker being cut from the Move controller due to cost savings along with what they felt was limited use.
Also, a couple of things I've been wondering for quite a while were answered:
EDIT
Keep finding other good answers
, that I think should be noted here for easy archivning/searching:The answer to number 3 in particular should be of particular relevance to a lot of people, I think.
Roxas598 | August 27th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
@Anton
Quick question from someone across the pond
1. do you need to calibrate the controller when starting up every game every time?
2. What’s the minimum distance you can be for the move to respond accurately?
3. Most Move demonstrations have the TV and Playstation Eye at shoulder level and even eye level. but what would happen if the TV is below you when standing up?
this would cause problems when using Move wouldn’t it?
Anton Mikhailov | August 27th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Hello, let me start off by commenting on your icon: Akuma > Ryu
1. This will vary depending on the game, but you’ll need to calibrate at least when the game starts. This takes care changes in your environment (eg. if you moved your camera, lighting, your position) and its only takes 0.5 seconds.
2. The minimum is something like 50cm or 1.6 feet. Its not very practical to play that close to the TV though
3. As long as the camera can see you the Move should be fine. In games that show video, it works best at shoulder/eye level since you can clearly see the person. But for games that don’t show the video, it matters less.
Still, some configurations arent so great, like camera on the floor, for example. In these cases your “working volume” for the controller is a bit skewed. Try to keep it the camera above your waist and adjust the tilt so that it can see you.
So far we’ve demoed it in quite a few strange configurations and never had any real issues.
Last edited by a moderator:
In July:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1457146&postcount=83
Coincidentally...
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010...-tour-announced-for-psn-and-playstation-move/
Curious to see what they are up to.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1457146&postcount=83
...
Would
* Motion combos
e.g., (While I ride on horse back), swing a lasso overhead, throw it around a cattle's neck, topple it and tie its legs together, all in one smooth sequence. Chimpanzee/Tarzan swinging from branch to branch, somersault, and climb up and down trees -- think Mirror's Edge; Indian chef flipping Roti Prata using 2 motion controllers as the pancake expands, etc. These would convince me that the Sorcery demo is not a "one-off" trick.
...
Coincidentally...
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010...-tour-announced-for-psn-and-playstation-move/
Curious to see what they are up to.
Quick question regarding calibration. It's been a few years since I had a Wii, but I don't recall having to constantly calibrate as it seems you have to do here with Move. Sports Champion vids show calibration occuring at the start of every new event, which seems excessive. Would this mean, for example, 4 of you playing Archery would require calibration every time a new user stepped up to play?
Also, going again by my limited Wii experience, I don't recall it being so prescriptive on where the player can stand. Again going by some of the vids seen, the calibration screen states where the player should stand (within a box on the screen) and states that it is the (very narrow) play area. Is it really so prescriptive? That doesn't seem particularly in keeping in what one would expect of a party experience for 'casuals', with the owner and party host telling them, "no, don't move left, stand still!" after a few drinks and trying to get them to play.
If this is what camera based solutions like Move and Kinect are going to be all about, it's yet another turn-off for me.
Also, going again by my limited Wii experience, I don't recall it being so prescriptive on where the player can stand. Again going by some of the vids seen, the calibration screen states where the player should stand (within a box on the screen) and states that it is the (very narrow) play area. Is it really so prescriptive? That doesn't seem particularly in keeping in what one would expect of a party experience for 'casuals', with the owner and party host telling them, "no, don't move left, stand still!" after a few drinks and trying to get them to play.
If this is what camera based solutions like Move and Kinect are going to be all about, it's yet another turn-off for me.
djskribbles
Legend
I've never owned a Wii, but my bro has one and I've played it a few times. But IIRC, some (if not all?) games required calibration of the remote. He does have Motion Plus if that makes a difference.
It depends on the game. The calibration is at the application level. e.g., some title needs to know the length of your arm. In a simple implementation, the game can determine the arm length of every player at the beginning of each session. They may also choose to keep the user profiles of all the players so that they only need to calibrate once.
Now instead of letting each game handle all the calibrations themselves, Sony can keep a (minimal) common set of user attributes such as arm length for all games. Since no one reported any "avatar profiles", I doubt they are doing that.
As for gaming from a fixed spot, I think it depends on what/how the game tracks. I don't think there is a standard requirement. My guess is the gesture based systems probably need to know more. The one-to-one free tracking stuff may not.
Now instead of letting each game handle all the calibrations themselves, Sony can keep a (minimal) common set of user attributes such as arm length for all games. Since no one reported any "avatar profiles", I doubt they are doing that.
As for gaming from a fixed spot, I think it depends on what/how the game tracks. I don't think there is a standard requirement. My guess is the gesture based systems probably need to know more. The one-to-one free tracking stuff may not.
Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
Looking at the video here, one of the titles where you can see it clearly stating the play area is Gladiator Duel http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/01/playstation-move-review/
Of more concern to me is that each seperate minigame requires calibration each time it's played. Surely, and especially as this is the flagship bundled title, a single calibration at startup would be a better option. That it's not is what's so concerning.
It depends on individual game. ^_^
In Sports Champions' table tennis gameplay video, the daddy and his son moved naturally during their match.
I'd be surprised if RUSE or EyePet request to calibrate my arm's length.
For calibration frequency and other UI flaws, well... vote with your dollars. e.g., I think there are 3 golf titles and 2 tennis games, people will simply buy the better game(s), or don't buy at all.
Vanilla Wii only has accelerometers and the Wiimote based visual system. Optical positioning will remain accurate as long as the sensor bar isn't moved. I think that's calibrated at setup in menus. Accelerometers are relative devices reporting changes, so can't be calibrated.
Wii Motion+ adds gyros and does require calibration, putting the controller on the floor even between rounds IIRC. I think it actually asks you to calibrate the controller when it needs it.
Thanks for that Shifty. I got rid of the Wii long before M+, after only a couple of months in fact. However, didn't remember constant calibration occuring in games, and if this is the 'advancement' that Kinect and Move are bringing to the party (pun intended ) then it's very much a disappointing one.
) then it's very much a disappointing one.
Thanks for that Shifty. I got rid of the Wii long before M+, after only a couple of months in fact. However, didn't remember constant calibration occuring in games, and if this is the 'advancement' that Kinect and Move are bringing to the party (pun intended
Calibration isn't 'constant'. For many games it's just a matter of pointing the controller at the screen and pressing the trigger, and typically replaces the 'press start' in the process so can't really considered to be much more of an effort. And it's done only once at startup for some games, or only once during the first startup for other games I think, where you then only go to the menu if you want to change the calibration.
However, some games that use 1:1 motion tracking will take into account your whole body's dimensions, in order to get the 1:1 motion tracking right in relation to the distance you're standing from the TV, the length of your arms versus your upper body, etc. Some games also track your complete upper body using face tracking and Move tracking in combination, to determine if you're walking towards or away from the table in Table Tennis for instance.
In these cases, calibration is more elaborate and will for instance ask you to stand in good view of the camera, stretch out your arm, then point to your buckle. Still only takes a second, and the pay-off is precise tracking of your movements in 3D space.
Kinect is similar - some games ask you to stick out your arm in a certain way, etc.
If you're interested, I can post some videos of some of the calibration processes. Or you can just stick to games that don't do advanced body tracking if that's such a big turn-off to you.
There are plenty of those around - Start the Party for instance just wants you to be in view of the camera, that's about it.Sorry, but 'constant' I really meant 'far more often than I expected'
It's easy to say, "well, it only takes a few seconds", but it only takes seconds to sync a DS3 or 360 controller to a console, but it would soon get tiresome if I had to do it before every game. Well, it would for me anyway, but maybe others are different.Are you sure about that? Why would Table Tennis track the face and upper body? It's not as though it changes the view dependent on where the player is looking, and surely the software would utilise the ability to see the glowball in 3D space to decide if the player is moving forward or backward? Wasn't that the stated reason for the glowball in the first place?
Obviously, I've seen such vids... hence my post
Or you can just stick to games that don't do advanced body tracking if that's such a big turn-off to you.
There are plenty of those around - Start the Party for instance just wants you to be in view of the camera, that's about it.[/QUOTE]Or hope that, in a single game at the very least, developers will be able to figure out a way to only calibrate once for a player, and only ever ask for recalibration when it detects that the player isn't calibrated.
Well, it has to be able to distinguish hitting forward and moving your body forward, and it changes left or right forward stance as well, even if the paddle is held the same way. I'm not 100% sure about what it is using when, but given the games that we do know that are out there using this tech, it does seem the easier way to solve this problem.
Well, yes, we'll see. I think for some of these games you'll always have a bit where you're checking if you're correctly in view of the camera when you start playing. Other games will only ever do it once. It's complicated matter and may take a while. I think you can calibrate the brightness of the light on the Move as well for instance, but I haven't heard anyone discuss that at all yet.
It would probably a good idea for Sony to think about what parts of the calibration process it could standardise and what parts would be useful to store in a user profile, and try to refine this during the Move's first year, and then update the firmware.
It doesn't sound easier at all, basically doing body/skeleton tracking the glowball, plus the accelerators, etc. sounds about as complicated as it's possible to be. Especially when considering that lighting conditions would also have to be taken into account for a range of "simple" party games.
It would make more sense, and be much easier, for the player movement to be 'assumed' by a 3d model in-game (even if you don't see it much) and for that model to make certain movement assumptions based on the position of the move controller in 3d space.
Kinda like seen in this video I just found on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqW7Q2EBceg
