PlayStation Move technology thread

[Cyan]

I was doubtful about posting this here or in the Kinect technology thread but well, the news is mainly related to Move and its technology so it's better to post it here, I think.

Well, Richard Marks, the creator of Eye Toy has said that both Eye Toy and Kinect are limited if compared with PlayStation Move. Sighs.

I only agree with him when he says that there are limits related to a buttonless interface, especially for car gamers and the such, but with some imagination and new settings or interfaces we could see some impressive things. We already did anyways.

There's no need to downplay the camera, especially when he is the inventor of Eye Toy. They may encounter limits and I wonder if because of those supposed limits they didn't realize the full potential back then, seeing the glass half empty instead of half full....

They could have ventured more than only a couple of steps away from a mainstream switch and a safety zone whose wilderness was non existent and could well be limited to the old games that people started playing decades ago.

Nothing wrong with them but new experiences might have sparked more interest from different kinds of people, especially taking into account how PS brand dominated the market years ago.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258764

Sony design guru Dr Richard Marks has claimed that both Microsoft's Kinect and Sony's own EyeToy are 'limited' in comparison to PlayStation Move.

Marks, who created the EyeToy, is convinced that gamers - and games designers - can achieve more with a controller in their hands.

Although he admitted EyeToy was "really neat" he said it faced limits on its own that the addition of Move has overcome - and suggested Kinect would suffer the same problems.

"I think it depends if you believe that controller-less is necessarily better which I don't believe," he told T3.

"I created the technology for EyeToy which we made a controller-less device and it was really neat and it enabled new things but it is not the end-all, be-all in control, we entered limits with that and I think without a controller you run into limits of what you can enable."

He added: "You can do things like track the whole body, you can have dancing and exercise but a lot of the core gameplay ideas that we want to see happen and want to enable just weren't possible with only a camera. We would have done that, we look at as much as we could do with just a camera but it wasn't the right choice we felt."

PlaySation Move will be released in the EU on September 15, the US on September 19 and Japan on September 25. Kinect will follow in November.

 

[Arwin]

Yes, the speed also means that it can be easy to make mistake quickly. If you try to use XMB with a trackpad/mouse, you'll see what I mean. The scrolling can be "too slippery".

Yeah, but it seems to work really well. One interesting configuration that I was thinking of the other day was that you use x/y to move over the screen, but z to increase or decrease precision (with maybe one button to recentralise your z axis to what you're currently holding).

@Cyan: I think that's pretty old by now. Marks has been repeatedly asked by interviewers about this, always saying that he's a big fan of the 3d camera technology, and as a creator fo EyeToy I think it only makes sense for him to explain why Sony didn't go that route in the end. In another interview I posted, he actually states that they had basically been trying to find a useful next step for hands-free gaming, until the Wii came along and showed them that casuals actually don't mind having something in their hands, as long as it's simple and easy to use. That's when the development really kicked off that led to the Move controller.

I think, personally, it's hard to argue that Move isn't a far better controller in general - you can play a far wider variety of games with it and it is very suitable to both new and existing game types, even existing game types that so far didn't work well on the console. That's not to say that Kinect is better for certain applications (fitness and dancing being obvious examples), but they will always be limited.

 

[patsu]

Yeah, but it seems to work really well. One interesting configuration that I was thinking of the other day was that you use x/y to move over the screen, but z to increase or decrease precision (with maybe one button to recentralise your z axis to what you're currently holding).

It works really well in the sense that it's snappy. But it is relatively easy to miss the target icon as it scrolls past the user. The user cannot see the icon text during fast scrolling. There is also no way to jump to a specific section in the scroll bar via direct manipulation.

"I created the technology for EyeToy which we made a controller-less device and it was really neat and it enabled new things but it is not the end-all, be-all in control, we entered limits with that and I think without a controller you run into limits of what you can enable."

That may not be the point though.

A camera-based interface has its advantages. Perhaps PS Move has more advantages in gaming context. Nonetheless, the developers will optimize the experience according to the strength of the interfaces.

By combining PSEye with Cell, the system can perform assorted analysis and recognition tasks with varying degree of accuracy (e.g., facial recognition, sketch recognition). They can also be combined with PS Move to improve the experience further. My definition of controller-less interface is also broader. The ability to recognize sketches in real-time and the ability to recognize drawing and photos are one and the same to me. In some applications, I may not mind overnight recognition/analysis. Such interface may also be extended to iPhone/PC/Android/PSP/standalone digital cameras. I would be able to extend the experience partially to outdoor activities.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

OT posts moved here

 

[upnorthsox]

It works really well in the sense that it's snappy. But it is relatively easy to miss the target icon as it scrolls past the user. The user cannot see the icon text during fast scrolling. There is also no way to jump to a specific section in the scroll bar via direct manipulation.

Not sure how this is any different than Windows or Apple or XMB with a DS3 for that matter, I guess the question is if we'll be able too get a desktop like feature with static icons/shortcuts.

That may not be the point though.

A camera-based interface has its advantages. Perhaps PS Move has more advantages in gaming context. Nonetheless, the developers will optimize the experience according to the strength of the interfaces.
By combining PSEye with Cell, the system can perform assorted analysis and recognition tasks with varying degree of accuracy (e.g., facial recognition, sketch recognition). They can also be combined with PS Move to improve the experience further. My definition of controller-less interface is also broader. The ability to recognize sketches in real-time and the ability to recognize drawing and photos are one and the same to me. In some applications, I may not mind overnight recognition/analysis. Such interface may also be extended to iPhone/PC/Android/PSP/standalone digital cameras. I would be able to extend the experience partially to outdoor activities.

If anything, what we've seen is that developers will completely ignore the strength of interfaces unless it is easily optimized.

 

[patsu]

Not sure how this is any different than Windows or Apple or XMB with a DS3 for that matter, I guess the question is if we'll be able too get a desktop like feature with static icons/shortcuts.

On Windows/Apple/iOS, navigation is more sophisticated because of direct manipulation. You can drag the scroll tab or jump to any location.

There may be "tuning" issues in PS Move's XMB interface:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22725423&postcount=1

Controlling the PS3 interface with the Move controller is really frustrating. Hold in the trigger and shake the stick to move in all directions... but it is waaaay too sensitive. I found myself giving up and reaching for the DS3. The web browser also does not create a virtual mouse which I thought would have been a nice touch.

The other problem may be consistency:

I also am really disappointed there is no consistent interface between games. Sports Champions will actively tell you when your controller is not in view of the PSEye, Tiger just makes wild assumptions. Some games ask you to calibrate by hitting the action button and pointing at the Eye, some the trigger, some the X button. You also must calibrate every controller between every different title.

If anything, what we've seen is that developers will completely ignore the strength of interfaces unless it is easily optimized.

Well... in general, from the game UI thread, most people think developers ignore interface/UI issues. (Period ).

But where gameplay is concerned, the game will be designed based on the specific strength of the controller. e.g., a Move dancing game will play differently from a Kinect dancing game.

 

[Billy Idol]

Sorry for the noob question:

does the Move controller support a rumble function?

 

[Arwin]

Yep.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Do we know if rumble motion is being filtered out of the sensing or not? Are they applying Immersion's tech? There's potential for gameplay affecting haptic feedback, with an earthquake or explosive shock throwing off a player's aim or cuasing them to drop the egg in the egg-and-spoon-race.

 

[Arwin]

Afaik its a rather light rumble, but that's all I know. But I do presume they have access. I don't actually see a problem with the Move's current system of motion detection though.

 

[upnorthsox]

Do we know if rumble motion is being filtered out of the sensing or not? Are they applying Immersion's tech? There's potential for gameplay affecting haptic feedback, with an earthquake or explosive shock throwing off a player's aim or cuasing them to drop the egg in the egg-and-spoon-race.

Wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't that be part of the gameplay?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Afaik its a rather light rumble, but that's all I know. But I do presume they have access. I don't actually see a problem with the Move's current system of motion detection though.

The accelerometers and gyros will be affected. When pointing in an FPS, rumble would cause the crosshair to wave about a bit if not filtered.

Wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't that be part of the gameplay?

Yes, it could be quite good, but you'd also want it managed if rumble is to be used. Otherwise the rumble will sit idle so it doesn't interfere with placement. Would be good to have in a lot of cases though. Like those electric maze where you have to trace a path or get buzzed, Move could do it virtually with a rumble when you hit the wire. Or perhaps as the tower gets taller in that stacking game (Tumble?), rumble could be added as a heart beat getting faster and faster. Placement shouldn't be affected in that case as the interface is based on sphere side, which will move imperceptibly as a result of rumble.

 

[onQ]

Some kid already has 2 PlayStation Move controllers & Sports Champions

plus
_____________________________

TV Superstars: GamesRadar UK turn themselves into creepy/hilarious digitised puppets

 

[patsu]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... No fair !

Why is this in the tech thread ? [Rage !]

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Some kid already has 2 PlayStation Move controllers & Sports Champions

Some kid who magically has these also seems to have a Sony Vaio laptop and a Sony TV, only praises and remembers to bring a better than Wii comparison to the table also. The ridiculous amount of camera shaking doesn't make it seem any less viral marketing to me, opposite actually. Still looks pretty good

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Some kid who magically has these also seems to have a Sony Vaio laptop and a Sony TV, only praises and remembers to bring a better than Wii comparison to the table also. The ridiculous amount of camera shaking doesn't make it seem any less viral marketing to me, opposite actually. Still looks pretty good

Did you take this theory further and research the user? He's been on a year and only posted kiddy nonsense. He's not a hugely popular poster. Chances are someone in the family works for Sony.

As for the Wii comment, it was actually edited so abruptly it wasn't clear which he was calling better! But we all know Move is better anyway, so how can you assume anyone claiming that is a sham?

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Did you take this theory further and research the user? He's been on a year and only posted kiddy nonsense. He's not a hugely popular poster. Chances are someone in the family works for Sony.

As for the Wii comment, it was actually edited so abruptly it wasn't clear which he was calling better! But we all know Move is better anyway, so how can you assume anyone claiming that is a sham?

I watched some of the videos, not too much though. I'm not sure about this, but seems a bit fishy. If someone in the family works for Sony then them showing it is essentially viral marketing.

edit: many of the videos this user has posted are made by these gagfilm guys
http://gagfilms.com/index.html

who specialize in making viral videos/adds/promo videos etc...
So I think my sceptisism has some grounds.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I watched some of the videos, not too much though. I'm not sure about this, but seems a bit fishy. If someone in the family works for Sony then them showing it is essentially viral marketing.

If they've been told to, yes. If if it's not deliberately uplaoded to generate commercial interest in the product, it isn't.

edit: many of the videos this user has posted are made by these gagfilm guys
http://gagfilms.com/index.html

Really? How do you know? Seems stupid to waste money on viral marketeers to create the same content a kid with a camcorder made, and which gets a couple of hundred views.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Really? How do you know? Seems stupid to waste money on viral marketeers to create the same content a kid with a camcorder made, and which gets a couple of hundred views.

Actually I messed up a bit, the gagfilm videos are on his favourite list and not posted by him. This video is new so it'll get more hits, but like I said I'm not sure about this, just seems weird that this little guy brings up many important bullet points, has a Vaio laying out there and in general I get a staged wibe about it, but I'm not betting my head on it.

edit: I'm starting to feel like I was wrong about this But like I said it looks pretty good

 

[TheWretched]

Well... I do have

a) SE Phone (k750i) as a backup
b) Vaio Laptop
c) Sony Receiver
d) Bravia TV
e) PS3, PS2 and stuff

and I do consider myself quite a kid still (although I am 28). And I am not paid by Sony either... yet I don't have 2 Moves^^

What I am trying to say is... it's not out of this world, that this kid does has all this stuff. Maybe rich parents, parents working for Sony... ... whatever.