Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by BRiT, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. almighty15

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    I think this is very exciting, Cerny put some real thought in to PS4 to ensure it was efficient and this is no different.

    To the casual gamer in the street faster loads times on PS5 are going to be much more visible then the resolution difference.

    There's also the whole back end efficiency, Nvidia cards out perform their AMD counterparts even though they have less tflops because Nvidia have a better balance between the back end and raw ALU performance.

    Also using previous AMD PC graphics cards of the past:

    HD7950 and 7970 at the same clocks the 7970 had a 4% performance advantage despite having 14% more shader cores.

    Same story with the 290 vs 290x at the same clocks and the same story with Vega 56 vs Vega 64 at the same clocks, all previous AMD architectures have had poor scaling with the additional shader cores so I wouldn't discount PS5's faster clocks making up for a slight decrease in ALU performance in the real world. Especially as Cerny said keeping few ALU busy with work is much easier then keeping many busy.

    And there's the matter of Series X.....or rather Series S........ most people think Microsoft has 2 next generation SKU's and they're focusing on the Series X for marketing as numbers sell (Why wouldn't they focus on the fastest SKU)

    I do expect there is a Series S that's 6-8tflops that'll launch in order to justify the extra cost of the Series X.

    This is base entry PS5, Sony could very well release a PS5 Pro in the next few years and have the fastest base and enhanced console of the generation.

    Also PS5's 'smaller' SOC would likely lead to cheaper production costs so a lower selling point, imagine if PS5 releases at $399 and Series X at $499. That'll be 25% more cost for arguable a real world 'single digit' performance increase.
     
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  2. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Is it though? They have a lot of custom stuff on the I/O-department with a hefty load of SRAM to boot (exact amount not confirmed I think?), it might be surprisingly big portion of the SoC
     
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  3. PSman1700

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    Well you get a 9.2TF console, but the boosts do better for marketing.

    3.5Ghz max boost, versus 3.8Ghz without SMT, 3.6ghz with. 12.1TF sustained vs 10TF max boost. Memory bandwith is alot more on XSX too, which gives rather huge advantage as function explained. The extra GPU performance provides more RT perf too. In raw perf for GPU, X had 1.8TF more then pro. We could have a similar situation, maybe.

    Thought that too, but someone here explained NV clocks are higher then standard given.
    There is no real evidence of a 2 SKU launch, the XSX chip isn't that big (360) as previously thought, the console might very well compete directly with the PS5 in price, all things considered.
     
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  4. chris1515

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    The memory bandwidth is the problem of the console on my side. Other things seems ok for a 399 dollars consoles.
     
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  5. psurge

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    As far as boost goes, I understood Cerny to mean that performance will be consistent in the sense that for a given load, frequency will vary in the same way across all PS5 units, regardless of the ambient temperature / console age. If that's correct, it seems smarter than the Xbox "fixed clock no matter what solution" - buyers don't have to worry about getting golden samples, but at the same time, clock speeds can ramp up (conservatively, such that all units are able to do the same, regardless of conditions) when power usage for a particular load is low.

    However, that sounds like a policy that might also be implementable for the XSX, so I'm not sure it's much of an advantage for the PS5.

    Caveat: I may have misunderstood completely. Also I'm not a game dev - there may still be good reasons to prefer the fixed clock approach that I am unaware of.
     
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  6. chris1515

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    People of RAD tworking on the Kraken solution seems to say it is the goal.

     
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  7. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    I think the reason we feel this way is because MS aimed higher and achieved it in yet unknown price.
    Looking at the PS5 design, excluding the presence of MS, it is still well thought, especially if they managed a good price. Now if MS achieves almost parity with price with a more powerful device, then certainly Sony lost the mark.
     
  8. Silent_Buddha

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    It remains to be seen if the smaller SOC (smaller contact area with cooling device) at a higher GPU clock will necessitate a more expensive cooling solution than the XBSX. We'll have to see if Sony has felt the need to push the power envelope on their SOC past the knee of the power efficiency curve as AMD has had to do with their high clocked graphics cards or whether they've been able to keep it low enough that it's still relatively power efficient.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  9. Scott_Arm

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    Personally, I'd be more excited about the fast load times and ssd streaming performance of PS5 because everything else can be scaled easily. For couch gaming I just would want everything to load near instantly. But in the end, I can't wait to demolish both of these devices with an overpriced PC.
     
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  10. function

    function None functional
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    MS gave a figure for sram of 76MB - presumably various caches. Seems a lot, but then again I still have a plasma telly.

    Hopefully Sony will spill some more beans. For example:

    - minimum guaranteed GPU and CPU clocks (with and without HT)

    - minimum guaranteed storage speed, regardless of load/temps.

    - [Edit] how much memory reserved for the OS vs games

    Meaning it will be one of the games to run??
     
    #390 function, Mar 18, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
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  11. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    $399. From this all things flow.
     
  12. Panino Manino

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    I commented about this before, that this part may had been misinterpreted.
    Maybe works like this.
    When the PS5 is trying to behave like a PS4 to run PS4 games it works and runs normally.
    The problem is when the PS5 is trying to behave like a PS4 Pro, in "boost mode". Because the clocks are much higher than the PS4 Pro this may cause problems for the game logic that isn't expecting so much more performance, so this need to be tested. Those 100 games are the games they tested to check this.
    I hope I understood this right, but even so, no talk about PS3 and PS2 is really annoying. This console is very well able to emulate both. Will Sony let Microsoft shame them like this supporting even original Xbox games?
     
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  13. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil Monsieur Geezer
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    I'm not sure if unprepared is necessarily it, but either it's that or something close.

    I lean towards "something close," which is one of two scenarios:
    1. Sony and AMD's backwards compatibility efforts made, for whatever reason, anything but a 1:1 match in CU counts impossible.
    2. There was a mandate from on high that the system be as small and cheap as possible, making 36CU's both the minimum and maximum, limiting bandwidth to a 256-bit bus, and making higher clocked GDDR6 non-viable.
    Either of those scenarios has resulted in them sort of painting themselves into a corner. And since they can't just say "yeah, we fucked up a bit here" they were never going to be able to sound all that prepared.

    If it's option 1, then fair enough, you have to just engineer around the limitations you're facing. And they've then got a fairly clear path to tread with the PS5Pro.

    If it's option 2, I hope Sony face an uphill battle to match/surpass XSX sales and revenue. May their executives learn their lesson that cutting costs can lead to cutting profits too, as more people decide to play third party cash cows on the platform that didn't prioritise a small, cheap SoC with cheap memory on a narrow bus.

    Everything else is fine, great even. But the more I think about the GPU and bandwidth, the more I'm baffled by their decision. If it was a two tier launch, then this would be a tremendous base console: bandwidth starved, but relatively cheap. But it's not, this is it.

    We know ray tracing eats bandwidth, we know the 5700's 448GB/s bandwidth is already a limiting factor in its performance, we know the PS4Pro suffered disproportionately due to its bandwidth, and we know the PS2 was able to punch above its weight because of its crazy bandwidth. Yet they decided to go low on bandwidth?

    The only aspect of the XSX that didn't impress me was it's relatively meagre amount of bandwidth, relative to its GPU. The PS5 somehow managed to do worse.

    Edit: cohesion and structure.
     
    #393 Tkumpathenurpahl, Mar 18, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
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  14. AbsoluteBeginner

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    No way PS5 will be $399. It saves money only on SOC, which considering how highly clocked it is + cooling it requires, probabl isnt alot.
     
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  15. anexanhume

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    Careful, your agenda is showing.
     
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  16. mpg1

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    Well it saves some money on storage too...not sure how much 175GB of NAND costs...
     
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  17. PSman1700

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    I'm sure XSX games will load 'near instant aswell'.

    They could lower clocks perhaps, somewhat. We don't want red rings of death to happen.

    MS does it in software, the emulation. If they go all the way back to OG xbox that's a rather good advtange as opposed to one gen.
     
  18. bgroovy

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    It uses less NAND, has a less complicated mobo, has a smaller die size, uses more in house components like the SSD controller, and Sony has a general advantage in manufacturing and distribution. I think the PS5 delivers a bit more than I expected for $399, but that price is hardly out of the realm of possibilities.
     
  19. lefantome

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    I am really disappointed in both the presentation and the hardware.

    This hardware is supposed to represent a generational leap AND run native 4K games.

    it feels that MS is miles ahead in heat dissipation technology and that Sony has invested too much on that super fast SSD. The SeriesX SSD is already way faster than what we have now, a x2 speedup is not going to be a big deal. That custom SSD must have been very expensive.
    Then what about the next big thing: ray tracing? It was barely mentioned.
     
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  20. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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