Playstation 3 e3 thread 3

[Joe DeFuria]

I'm not going to argue in Vince's favour, but I belief the point that was being argued wasn't what Sony will do, but rather what kind of situation we believed Sony to be in and how they would/could use it to their advantage.

Maybe you were arguing "could"...Vince was arguing "would because Sony invests lots and lots of mony and going to the smaller process is the key advantage that outweighs everything else....and if you think otherwise, you're an idiot."

There were numerous sources and news tidbits on the progress of the Sony fabs which were being upgraded for 65nm production, as were Toshiba fabs making great progress.

At the same time, people like Deadmeat were getting thrashed when he insisted that Sony and its partners would not be ready with 65nm this generation. And that PR about samples, etc, was just that.

All I'm saying is that back then, it was a very likely possibility (of course in an optimal scenario).

All I'm saying is that to people who admitted it was possible, but NOT "likely", were given a pretty hard time about it.

I also didn't want to say that I believe Sony was forced to schedule themselves accoarding to Microsofts plans - but rather that it was the safest bet.

Pretty much agreed. None of these companies are "forced" to do anything though.

Do they really need 65nm? Given Microsofts hardware (I don't see them pushing the envelope with Xb360), I'd say the answer is no.

I don't see sony pushing any more of an envelope than MS.

The question in my mind isn't does Sony need 65nm. It's does Sony need to be certain they can launch within a year of XBox 360.

At 90nm, yes. At 65nm? Too risky...IMO. Again, the point is that Vince saw 65nm as the sole target...anything else (like time to market) was pretty inconsequential to "the market leader." Something you and I would disagree with.

 

[Phil]

Again, the point is that Vince saw 65nm as the sole target

Of course, so did I. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's obvious that a guy like Vince or any other random forum member can't predict the decisions of a multi billion corporation since we don't have the same information and insider information as those companies do. At the end of the day, educated guesses is all we have (and that includes Vince, regardless how he argued his point) and at the time, it was his or anyones guess. Even if PS3 would have been on 65nm, it wouldn't have proved much in Vince's favour except for that his guess was more accurate and on target.

At the same time, people like Deadmeat were getting thrashed when he insisted that Sony and its partners would not be ready with 65nm this generation. And that PR about samples, etc, was just that.

Deadmeat was trashed for other reasons (trolling).

I don't see sony pushing any more of an envelope than MS.

Exactly my point, which is why we may be seeing 90nm rather than the indicated 65nm. The point was, if Microsoft had pushed the envelope rather than being cost conservative, we may have seen Sony taking a higher risk and losses on its PS3 by going 65nm with worse yields, more expensive hardware but at the same time more powerful one as well. Maybe they wouldn't have. We simply can't know. But given that last interview with Ken Kutaragi, it is obvious that 65nm was a consideration and a target until some point.

 

[ringlord]

The impression I keep getting is that the PS3 is launching in NA in Spring 2006 (since E3 is held in LA). But the safe assumpion is that it's launching in Japan in Spring 2006. So is it both, or just Japan.

MS specifically said worldwide launch for Fall 2005. Sony has just said "launch" in Spring 2006. Anyone know the answer?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Again, the point is that Vince saw 65nm as the sole target

Of course, so did I. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Like I said, yes, there's nothing wrong with that. But that is not the point.

At the end of the day, educated guesses is all we have (and that includes Vince, regardless how he argued his point) and at the time, it was his or anyones guess.

There is a difference between an educated guess, and an educated argued with "you're an idiot and just don't understand the market. I can NOT be wrong."

But given that last interview with Ken Kutaragi, it is obvious that 65nm was a consideration and a target until some point.

Probably until the point they realized that they could not produce 65nm parts with a reasonable amount of certainty within one year of x-box launch.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

The impression I keep getting is that the PS3 is launching in NA in Spring 2006 (since E3 is held in LA). But the safe assumpion is that it's launching in Japan in Spring 2006. So is it both, or just Japan.

MS specifically said worldwide launch for Fall 2005. Sony has just said "launch" in Spring 2006. Anyone know the answer?

No, but I suspect that it will be Japan only in Spring, and the rest of the world following it steps...with total world wide availability only by Fall '06.

 

[Phil]

I think Ty said something that it will be launching in NA first, but I guess will see. I think the possibility is quite high.

Joe:

Probably until the point they realized that they could not produce 65nm parts with a reasonable amount of certainty within one year of x-box launch.

*nods* actually, I wonder if Nvidia's entry had anything to do with it. Maybe the visualizer would have been more practical if they had the transistor budget for production on 65nm - but since the risk was too high, Nvidia was brought on board?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I think Ty said something that it will be launching in NA first, but I guess will see. I think the possibility is quite high.

You really think there's a high possibility of PS3 launching in NA exclusively first? Or do you mean joint NA / Japan launch? If it's the former, I'd suspect that would REALLY piss off the Japanese market, who would have just watched MS launch essentially world wide all at once.

*nods* actually, I wonder if Nvidia's entry had anything to do with it. Maybe the visualizer would have been more practical if they had the transistor budget for production on 65nm - but since the risk was too high, Nvidia was brought on board?

I think it's the other way around. IMO, nVidia was brought on board simply because it had the tech needed to compete in today's market. I have serious doubts that whatever Toshiba was cooking up would be up to snuff.

 

[creon100]

Considering they unveiled the console for the first time at a NA game event (the PS2 wasn't unveiled at E3 I believe), and gave a release date as Spring '06 @ E3 here in the states, I think it's not too big a leap to think they meant available in the states in Spring '06. Whether that means a later Japan launch or a simultaneous NA/Japan launch (or maybe simultaneous USA/Japan launch, leaving out poor Canada) I'm not sure, but if they meant that release date as strictly for Japan I believe they would have mentioned it given the audience they were addressing.

 

[mckmas8808]

Good theory creon100. It could happen. I doubt it but I hope you are right.

 

[Ty]

You really think there's a high possibility of PS3 launching in NA exclusively first? Or do you mean joint NA / Japan launch? If it's the former, I'd suspect that would REALLY piss off the Japanese market, who would have just watched MS launch essentially world wide all at once.

When I heard the rumor going round the office I was surprised. I frankly, did not think that PS3 development was that far along. But yes, what I've heard is that NA Spring 06. I do not know if Japan is actually later or not but I do not see how they could make enough to perform a simultaneous roll out. So I assumed Japan later and I should have made that clearer. /shrug

 

[markvaid]

hey does anyone know if there's going to be more info revealed about ps3, and its games in the upcoming days at e3?

 

[Legend]

not much, and after E3 we may not hear anything again till TGS.

 

[markvaid]

no i don't mean after e3, e3 is not over yet right. I meant if there's going to be more info about the ps3 during the convention?

 

[Phil]

E3 2005: PS3 Price Revealed?

ign[/url]]May 17, 2005 - According a an article published in the May 17th edition of Japan's Mainichi Shimbun, the PlayStation 3 could be one of the most expensive mass-market videogame consoles ever created. Officials from Sony apparently told the newspaper that PlayStation 3s would sell in Japan for "less than 50,000 yen each." That translates to about $465 US dollars.

Didn't the PS2 launch at the same price in Japan (48'000 yen)? If yes, then perhaps it won't be sold at more than $300 in NA anyway. Regardless, this thing will easily cost over $500 in Europe, so yeah!

 

[Legend]

who knows what info will be given.

about the price:
Japan is expensive. directly comparing prices with them sin't accurate.
and analysts said PSP would be $400-500.

we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[markvaid]

oh, do you guys think that the tokyo game show will have something interesting? I've never actually seen it, but i've read that sony usually reveals something nice. E3 is starting to loose its momentum.

 

[Legend]

think about TGS as part two of E3. the short footage and games that couldn't be revealed in E3 due to time constraints can make it up in TGS (which I think is the 2nd biggest game show). we also get new demos of the same titles. I even think we may see a short rea-time demo of MGS4 despite Konami saying they will reveal it next year (because they cold have ment next year for NA)

 

[markvaid]

i see thanks. I have a question about the killzone trailer. Is it true that CGIs can't load things in real time. So during the video. If it's true than that trailer couldn't have been just cgi because if you look closely at the scene when they're under the bridge and that buggy comes out you can see a guy just appear in the back of it. There's a video of this at nextgen forums.
Link:http://users.coditel.net/COD11731/teleport.wmv

there's also a video pointing out some glitch in the very opening scene in the cloulds and has something to do with the gun or something.

 

[Legend]

there are two schools of thought behind this one:

1- those who say it is real-time: whether scripted or not, it is running on PS3 specifications. an Epic person said that the demo is perfectly achievable on PS3. in fact, we will be seeing even better graphics by time. also, it isn't really that far off from the Unreal PS3 demo which is confirmed to be running real-time.
these base their suggestion on the fact that some 'glitches' proove it like the pop ups you mentioned. besides, this is the Monster Cell we are talking about and this is 'the' nextgen console in terms of power and capabilities.

2- those who sayit is prerendered (a.k.a high-end CG): thses base their suggestion on the simple fact that it looks freakin' too good to be true. also, sum very minor aspects showes it is prerendered (namely the missing pixel in a still pic). they also answer to the 'glitches' of the demo as not having enough time to complete it, thus showing some slide backs. some even go as far as saying it is meant to be there just to 'fool' viewers on to thinking it was real-time. oddly, we don't hear such claims from this side on X2 only two good demos; Gears of War and PGR3.

which one is correct? you decide.

personally, having the Epic guy confirm that PS3 can achieve even better graphics and also 1up.com asking one of the people who were involved in making the trailer said that "prety much all of it is real", and Sony never showed 'false' demos for any of their gaming machines all suggest that Killzone's trailer although mind-blowing and jaw-dropping is indeed real-time and achieveable on PS3.
what is the use of calling a system 'next-gen' if it didn't creat such a graphical leap?
that is my take anyway.

 

[Trawler]

2- those who sayit is prerendered (a.k.a high-end CG): thses base their suggestion on the simple fact that it looks freakin' too good to be true.

There's another simple fact - the PS3 hardware does not exist yet.

I'm not sure if even a 6800U SLI setup with a crippled Cell could push out that kind of detail at a framerate in the ~30fps range.