Phil Harrison's GDC keynote - Home, LittleBigPlanet & more

[Asher]

I think you are making assumptions about something that isn't out yet. Maybe we should wait until the beta before we cry about features you think it doesn't have.

It's not an assumption, it's a fact as stated by Harrison himself...

 

[Scott_Arm]

All of the programs I've mentioned who had these features were free...

Scale is arguable.

Sony does have far greater visibility to make something like this work, especially since it is somewhat being force fed to everyone that will buy a PS3, making them more likely to try it. Also, it is a closed system, so they do not have to worry about competing with other online services that provide the same functions like Youtube etc. You could say its the kick in the ass to get Sony users started.

 

[expletive]

But what about watching a filmed technology demonstration concurrently with a couple of your B3D friends? Say on my virtual 80" Bravia at che XBD's?

And afterwards, we can flip it to Gremlins. Meanwhile we'll have the fine beats of my electronica collection going during our post-film poker game.

WHo is going to provide the bandwidth to do all this streaming and media sharing? I assume it will be P2P at that point? A lot of these things sound really cool but i think the technology implications behind it all are going to make the real experience a bit less than the promise.

My main confusion in all this is that I dont see how this is different than running a program like 2nd life on your console? Since this will hang off the XMB, how is this any different than Sony announcing a new 'game' called home, which is a free virtual community. Theres nothing I see about this that makes it any different than any other MMO that could be released on the other platforms, including PC.

If MS came out with a game called 3rd life that was downloadable and could tap into the gamercard data and video cameras, etc, would it be any different?

 

[avaya]

Sort of like how you can't buy Sony PC with windows on them?

Zing!....but no. Live has no monopoly unlike Windows. Sony Pictures won't be on Live or will be loathed to have their content on live.

 

[Scott_Arm]

WHo is going to provide the bandwidth to do all this streaming and media sharing? I assume it will be P2P at that point? A lot of these things sound really cool but i think the technology implications behind it all are going to make the real experience a bit less than the promise.

My main confusion in all this is that I dont see how this is different than running a program like 2nd life on your console? Since this will hang off the XMB, how is this any different than Sony announcing a new 'game' called home, which is a free virtual community. Theres nothing I see about this that makes it any different than any other MMO that could be released on the other platforms, including PC.

If MS came out with a game called 3rd life that was downloadable and could tap into the gamercard data and video cameras, etc, would it be any different?

There are definitely copy-right issues involved and a people are going to need big bandwidth to take advantage of everything.

 

[Asher]

But thats part of the problem. Some of the features I mentioned aren't available with competitiors and probably never will, at least to the same extent. For instance, with the theater, you can guarantee you'll never see the movies from at least 3 movie studios debut on Live even if they implement one.

That's an incredibly terrible argument, seeing as Microsoft has its own alliances as well (eg, Universal Studios/NBC). I think it's naive to think Sony is doing things no one else can do, particularly when you're comparing them to more experienced and wealthier rivals.

The 3D environment also allows for much more customization and personalizing of your space just by the virtue of being 3D. It allows for tie-ins that work with gaming within these spaces, such as the previously discussed clan meetings.

Again, I view this as incredibly superficial. What is gained from personalizing your space? Why is it only possible to have clan meetings with a 3D space? There is no substance behind the rhetoric.

Imagine somebody stripping Live down to just the friends list or messaging list and saying these features are insignificant.

That would be fine, because they're not insignificant features. They are very significant -- nay, they are the core...

A whole boatloat of insignificant niceties does not make it amazing.

 

[Carl B]

3) I'm not a fan of your electronica music

I thought you might not be - so we can meet at your place instead.


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WHo is going to provide the bandwidth to do all this streaming and media sharing? I assume it will be P2P at that point? A lot of these things sound really cool but i think the technology implications behind it all are going to make the real experience a bit less than the promise.

Maybe. And if so, you'll hear me complaining. But until we see the thing in action, we just have to deal with the spirit of the idea rather than the implementation of the idea.

My main confusion in all this is that I dont see how this is different than running a program like 2nd life on your console? Since this will hang off the XMB, how is this any different than Sony announcing a new 'game' called home, which is a free virtual community. Theres nothing I see about this that makes it any different than any other MMO that could be released on the other platforms, including PC.

I personally see differences; it's a fine line it seems between what people consider to be a differentiated feature or not. But...

If MS came out with a game called 3rd life that was downloadable and could tap into the gamercard data and video cameras, etc, would it be any different?

Wouldn't you think that cool? Or to tone down the positive tenor, at least 'neat'?

 

[Asher]

Zing!....but no. Live has no monopoly unlike Windows. Sony Pictures won't be on Live or will be loathed to have their content on live.

You are assuming Microsoft's business partners, namely Universal Studios/NBC, won't give MS a similar "ace in the hole". This isn't even beginning to take into account MS has far deeper pockets to strike exclusive deals with content providers, and Sony is an inherent competitor to most studios so they may be more likely to side with MS than Sony.

 

[scooby_dooby]

But what about watching a filmed technology demonstration concurrently with a couple of your B3D friends? Say on my virtual 80" Bravia at che XBD's?

And afterwards, we can flip it to Gremlins. Meanwhile we'll have the fine beats of my electronica collection going during our post-film poker game.

Lol, sorry, but the idea of Virtual 80" TV is just silly, who cares what the size is, you watch it on your same display anyways. i.e. wow that 80" Bravia TV looks like crap on my 24" SDTV!

The idea of sharing video's is cool, and sort of hanging out and playign mini-games couldbe potentially pretty neat. Of course, you need a group of friends that all agree to meet up at a certain time online, you have to co-ordinate everything, it's not quite as easy as you make it seems.

 

[Scott_Arm]

You are assuming Microsoft's business partners, namely Universal Studios/NBC, won't give MS a similar "ace in the hole". This isn't even beginning to take into account MS has far deeper pockets to strike exclusive deals with content providers, and Sony is an inherent competitor to most studios so they may be more likely to side with MS than Sony.

Microsoft already has MicrosoftTV. I work at Alcatel-Lucent and I can watch IPTV on a MicrosoftTV set-top box every day. They already have quite a few "ins" with the content providers, I'd imagine. Aren't they already talking about using the Xbox as a set-top box?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's perhaps THE most fundamental feature of online communities...to argue otherwise is missing the point of communities altogether.

I disagree. Communities don't require a unified friends list. I am a member of the B3D community, and a GuildWars community. I don't need to share contacts between both communities to be a part of both. Unified friends lists are a convenience where you want to share friends between games, but as long as you can invite friends to games, you have the same functionality. In Live! you go on your universal friends list and invite Bob and Joe to play GeOW online. On PS3 you'd meet up in Home and invite them to start R:FoM where you'll meet up. Or you'll create a local clan in R:FoM and from Home, invite them to join your clan. Not as convenient, but also it has plus-points if you don't have cross-over community. You might have a list of friends who play one game, and a different list of friends to play another game, and perhaps you don't want to share any of your life (photos etc.) outside of those games with them. I might have a list of friends to play R:FoM with, and yet the friends I invite to tmy virtual apartment may only be my real-life friends when we're meeting online instead of at someone's house.

 

[Carl B]

Lol, sorry, but the idea of Virtual 80" TV is just silly, who cares what the size is, you watch it on your same display anyways. i.e. wow that 80" Bravia TV looks like crap on my 24" SDTV!

Well, I have to say... I don't think it's clear as yet whether or not outside of perhaps the theatre itself, whether you'll be able to "fill" your screen with whatever's being played on the virtual set. In the examples it showed the sets always in the context of the environment. Of course, it would make sense to be able to, but then again... it would make sense not to also, just to keep the 'feel.' That's what I'm assuming in my 80" example honestly.

I don't know, we'll see. Why are you trying to knock my expensive TV Scooby!?!?! I paid $2 for it.

The idea of sharing video's is cool, and sort of hanging out and playign mini-games couldbe potentially pretty neat. Of course, you need a group of friends that all agree to meet up at a certain time online, you have to co-ordinate everything, it's not quite as easy as you make it seems.

No doubt. But no harder than organizing a clan game or anything else in this giant cyber-expanse we inhabit.

 

[Asher]

I disagree. Communities don't require a unified friends list. I am a member fo the B3D community, and a GuildWars community.

Notice how you identify them as two separate communities.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Notice how you identify them as two separate communities.

Because they are. I don't meet up with anyone here on GW. You don't have to share absolutely everything with the same people to make a community, you know. Home will be one community, from which you can invite members of that community into local game communities, if you want to. What's wrong with that?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Well, I have to say... I don't think it's clear as yet whether or not outside of perhaps the theatre itself, whether you'll be able to "fill" your screen with whatever's being played on the virtual set. In the examples it showed the sets always in the context of the environment. Of course, it would make sense to be able to, but then again... it would make sense not to also, just to keep the 'feel.'

I don't know, we'll see. Why are you trying to knock my expensive TV Scooby!?!?! I paid $2 for it. ...

ha ha ha, if I ever get a PS3, I promise I'll watch a video on your $2 Sony Bravia.

I hope you'll be able to center on virtual screen to get fullscreen video viewing, otherwise conditions for watching videos will be less than optimal. In that case, I would make sure to stand in front tvs and jump up and down to aggravate the masses.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Because they are. I don't meet up with anyone here on GW. You don't have to share absolutely everything with the same people to make a community, you know. Home will be one community, from which you can invite members of that community into local game communities, if you want to. What's wrong with that?

Because it's a PITA. You meet a new friend, you have 10 games you may want to play, you have to import him into each of those 10 games?? Or just add him to your univeral friends list that is accessed by every game.

Seems obvious which is better...

 

[patsu]

It's perhaps THE most fundamental feature of online communities...to argue otherwise is missing the point of communities altogether.

If so, where is unified friend list support for B3D ? Is B3D not a strong community ? And you're saying before XBL, strong community does not exist ? There are many different forms of community building. Please be open.

I'll clarify this again: I'm not talking about many of the XBL-features Sony is adding to PSN and sticking under the "Home" monicker. As far as I'm concerned, "achievements" et al. are functions of PSN. "Home", in this context, is the 3D interface.

Why talk about PS Home using your or MS's framework ? You should discuss PS Home in PS Home context. It's designed that way (trophies/achievements or whatever you call it comes with the Home platform). XMB is a minimalist interface to the Home platform.

Second Life is a free download and free to play, the subscription is only for people who wish to own land. That's really a minor distinction, as it doesn't have a large effect on the community (eg, the people). The fact that you think the SecondLife requires a monthly subscription certainly explains why we have a fundamental disconnect here -- I don't think you've ever tried it.

I tried SecondLife as part of my work but quickly disposed of it. To be specific, you spoke about SecondLife's business model here:

"And all I'm saying is there's no real point to hyping that up, as Second Life is similar in its business model to what Home will be like, and it's far from a runaway success."

I did not say it requires subscription. You're confusing the concepts. SecondLife's business model is monthly subscription (of course only for those who subscribed just like Xbox Live), tier/land fees and eCommerce. They also did some sponsorships but I'm not sure how robust it is.

According to the FAQ, PS Home will be based on some sort of advertising and marketing revenue (initially).

The essence of home is adding features that have existed for years on Xbox Live -- which is great -- and then adding a Second Life clone on top of it. That's all this is.

The essence of Home is the sense of sharing a common space and being entertained together. There is no mention on the underlying infrastructure and specific features because they are selling on the experience (to grow an advertisement/marketing-supported world).

Xbox Live is an easy to use, full-featured online gaming + eCommerce platform... They need to talk about the specific features to sustain the subscription model

Xbox Live lacks features in PS Home (because it's not strategic from their point of view) and vice versa.

How can a system without a unified messaging system, without a unified contact system, and without unified voice communication have deeper community and social elements? You have very strange definitions, ones that curiously suit your argument.

People can see each other, talk anywhere in the Home world and while starting up games. The online games will have voice or text chat appropriately. I don't see your point.

FWIW, Home also support emotes (visual avatar communications). The room concepts also bring the gamers together. You're missing a large part of Home in your narrow view.

EDIT:

All of the programs I've mentioned who had these features were free...

Scale is arguable.

All together for free ? Show me the URL please... now.

 

[nAo]

I don't understand why many think that an unified contacts list is some kind of uber feature, so difficult to implement that basicly only MS can do it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Seems obvious which is better...

And I agreed UFLs are more convenient in my original post. That doesn't stop individual game lists being a community though, where Asher was saying a unified friends list is essential to creating a community.

I don't understand why many think that an unified contacts list is some kind of uber feature, so difficult to implement that basicly only MS can do it.

They don't. It's just so far only MS offer it

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don't understand why many think that an unified contacts list is some kind of uber feature, so difficult to implement that basicly only MS can do it.

I don't think anyone is saying Sony can't implement it, just that they should have introduced it in the first version of Home, or even sooner. From the sounds of it, it won't even launch with the initial version of Home.