Phil Harrison's GDC keynote - Home, LittleBigPlanet & more

[Carl B]

...Home is a different take...

Let's leave it at that then tkf, rather than tack on: in my view a better take and a more visionary view.

This thread is entering a spiral where users feel goaded, and are responding in kind. Not good.

 

[Scott_Arm]

This is all from your view and eventhough were supposed to do avoid to much VS in these threads it seems your defending XBOX LIVE vs Sony´s Home. I don´t want to generalise to much here, but the usual forums i frequent i find a certain pattern is evolving, those that seem to like home most is either free roaming gamers that isn´t married to any special platform or it´s fans of Sony. Those that think it´s "nothing" special and just "TEXT" packed in 3D and "seen before" and generally finds it very unimpressive usually comes from a XBOX LIVE background. Home does not make XBOX LIVE suck, Home is a different take, in my view a better take and a more visionary view. You will have your Unified stuff sooner or later then what, does Home not suck then?,
I was starting to doubt that Sony could pull PS3 off, but they have shown they can and my confidence in them is restored, thanks to Home really and nothing else.

I do not think Home is anything special and I have never owned an Xbox or Xbox360 and probably won't buy either. I have played mmo games on the PC. I haven't noticed Asher saying it sucks, just that it's not really "raising the bar" in a significant way, and I'd agree. His questions about the added value of clan meetings in 3D space and personalized decoration are valid.

 

[Synergy34]

I'm just wondering why Sony is spending time developing a barbie simulator instead of catching up to the basic features of Xbox Live like pervasive voice chat, universal friends lists, achievement points, and so on?!? I mean you can't even tell what your friends are up to on a PS3? They have a long feature list to check off before they should be working on home decorating simulators IMO.

Isn't that what Home is going to provide? I'm not exactly sure how the friend list will be used but everything else is apart of it.

My question is, when I look at the friend list inside of Home, will it tell me what games people are playing? Or just that they are on and connected?

 

[-tkf-]

Obviously it's difficult enough that 6month into the product launch, that was already delayed by 6months, that they still have not found time to implement it.

No one is saying only MS could create a UFL, that's a total strawman argument. What people are saying is that it doesn't currently exist, and asking when will it be implemented, and how will that support be built into games?

Didn´t Phil more or less say Unified lists were on the way? And i would be suprised if i can´t have an unified list in Home of my friends in Home even before it´s implemented across all games. And since you started it.. I´m surprised that Microsoft with 5 years advantage hasn´t come up with anything like Home.

 

[-tkf-]

His questions about the added value of clan meetings in 3D space and personalized decoration are valid.

I think it adds value, as does the free games, the free videos, the free stuff other publishers will provide, and the free 3D world i can roam in together with friends. If that isn´t added value then what is?

 

[patsu]

You don't need a unified friend list for a community, you need a standardized form of communication. For the purposes of B3D, this is served by the PM and forum software.

For games, this is best served by a unified contact list.

And you can chat in text, voice, video and emotes in PS Home.

Unified friend list has its place, but it's not as important as you made it up to be.

Trophies are not inherent to Home, and if they are not accessible via the XMB then people in this thread have lied about not having to use Home.

Sure but as a full concept, trophies is more exciting in Home. XMB just gets the plain version.
There are also other online gaming elements that comes with the Home platform (e.g., clan rooms, game lobby). XMB is "just" a virtual PSP there.

Second life's business model is not just monthly subscription, you are thinking on too small a scale. Their business model relies on having many users using free clients in order to drive paying subscribers to purchase land in order to set up stores and the like (eg, IBM is a subscriber that buys land). Think about this a bit more.

Sony plans to get most of its money from advertising and the odd paid transaction, where do you think Second Life plans to get most of its money? Their business models are very similar.

What you spoke about above are just marketing elements. Not business model. In my original post, I already highlighted tier/land fee as part of their model (twice even !).

For the third time, SecondLife's business model is tier/land fee, subscription fee and eCommerce. They tried sponsored events sometimes.

There is no subscription in PS Home like Xbox Live and SecondLife.
There is no Linden$ in PS Home (Like Xbox points. They can serve as float for MS and SecondLife).
Land fee corresponds to inexpensive advertising/placements (because their active audience is too small and their data may be a little too dodgy for my taste). PS Home is counting on premium gaming content, regular game lobby activities, and the Playstation brand to rope in the crowd. Advertisers will spend more on people who can afford a 600 dollar console and more games (!).
Sony content arm can also stand to gain via media download and limited sharing.

You're differentiating where it makes no sense to. They are both communities. Virtually the only feature Home will have that XBL currently lacks is media sharing, which I don't think it will lack for long. Look at the direction MS is heading in with Zune, I expect it to go the same direction with XBL.

That's because you only look at feature set. Consumer behaviour is more than that.

I do not consider emotes to be a "large part", or even vital. Do you remember the MS chat program in the 1990s based on avatars with emotes? That gave way to MSN Messenger...

It doesn't detracts from the whole of PS Home experiences: text, video, voice and emotes (The MUD crowd loved it). The IM people invented smilies as a stand in.

They're not all together, but the features were there and no one particularly cared for them. Bundling a whole bunch of such features together doesn't make it any more attractive

Speak only for yourself here. The fact is that it has not been done before in an all-together and pleasing fashion. Don't run away from the original point.

EDIT:

I'm just wondering why Sony is spending time developing a barbie simulator instead of catching up to the basic features of Xbox Live like pervasive voice chat, universal friends lists, achievement points, and so on?!? I mean you can't even tell what your friends are up to on a PS3? They have a long feature list to check off before they should be working on home decorating simulators IMO.

This is exactly what I'm getting at as well. There are many features I consider fundamental to an excellent game community, and most of them do not exist on the PS3. As somebody who has desperately wanted these features since the launch, it's almost a slap in the face to see how they've been spending their time developing such a cutesy application.

Because it enriches the experience, consolidates their offerings, differentiates their products, and funds part of the free online infrastructure, including unified friend list when it comes.

 

[patsu]

Oops... double post again. sorry mods.

 

[avaya]

You are assuming Microsoft's business partners, namely Universal Studios/NBC, won't give MS a similar "ace in the hole". This isn't even beginning to take into account MS has far deeper pockets to strike exclusive deals with content providers, and Sony is an inherent competitor to most studios so they may be more likely to side with MS than Sony.

Unrealistic. The movie studios won’t do exclusive deals in the downloads market. They saw what can potentially happen with music and iTunes effective monopoly and they don’t want that.

Sony Pictures actually has a very good relationship with its chief competitors.

Is Disney producing anything for Live at the moment? If they aren’t I don’t expect that to change since Mr. Jobs will want to keep it that way. So that’s potentially 2 big guns down and Disney is only second to Time-Warner...

 

[Asher]

And you can chat in text, voice, video and emotes in PS Home.

You can do this in a million and one free PC applications too. This is the epitome of "not important", because it can't be done in games and it doesn't tie together the gaming community. Do a lot of you have real plans to sit around in Home a lot chatting? That seems like a curious use for a game console, to me.

Speak only for yourself here. But the fact is that it has not been done before in an all-together and pleasing fashion. Don't run away from the original point.

I understand it's the original point, but I do not think that "it's never been done all together" before is a strong argument.

I could make the same argument about an online gaming console app that lets you do your taxes, train your dog, provide psychological counseling, and at the same time play 1950s era movies. I'm sure that's a pretty unique combination, but it's never been done before in a pleasing way, therefore the population will love it.

 

[Asher]

Unrealistic. The movie studios won’t do exclusive deals in the downloads market. They saw what can potentially happen with music and iTunes effective monopoly and they don’t want that.

You think it's unrealistic? Really? The same way that it'd be unrealistic for MS to arrange deals like paying Universal royalties per Zune sold for special rights?

I think you're underestimating MS/Universal's relationship, particularly if Sony were to play the content-exclusive card.

Is Disney producing anything for Live at the moment? If they aren’t I don’t expect that to change since Mr. Jobs will want to keep it that way. So that’s potentially 2 big guns down and Disney is only second to Time-Warner...

It's amusing that in the span of one post, you can say movie studios won't do exclusive deals in the downloads market when it would favour MS, but then immediately say Disney would likely be Sony exclusive...

 

[archangelmorph]

I really couldn't care less if each game had their own unique community, that's not anything special nor is it particularly that valuable or rewarding...

I want to be playing a game of Resistance and be notified if a buddy of mine wants to play a game of Motorstorm. I want to be able to play Motorstorm and have another buddy ask to share media with me in Home. I want to know when my brother signs on because I've been meaning to settle a score with him in VF6 (assuming it has MP). These are some very important features of building a true community on a game console -- MS set this standard what, 5 years ago? Sony has no excuse for not having it out now, and I fear their "other priorities" nAo refers to are implementing this cutesy avatar system rather than building up their gaming community. Which is alarming, to me, as a $600 game console owner.

You carry on as if your "wants" equate to the rest of the gaming communities.. Problem is in real life this isn't the case..

What happens if your "buddies" don't like to play the same games as you..? What if they are into flight sims and first person shooters when your staple games are action adventures and sports sims..? (not saying they are, i'm just using this as an example..)

Surely in this situation its BETTER to have a smaller community local to the games that you like so that when such like-minded people get online you can all enjoy the same gaming experiences together..?

And to be fair, the fact that this thread has seen tens of thousands of views and hundreds of posts within the space of only a few days, I'd say that their are alot more people who are interested in the announced features (and the potential..) of a virtual social platform like Home than any UFL could ever give them..

 

[-tkf-]

Do a lot of you have real plans to sit around in Home a lot chatting? That seems like a curious use for a game console, to me.

I think this current generation of Game Consoles clearly are venturing into new areas.. you actually talk to people on XBOX LIVE without playing? weird...

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think it adds value, as does the free games, the free videos, the free stuff other publishers will provide, and the free 3D world i can roam in together with friends. If that isn´t added value then what is?

What value, exactly? What free stuff and what value will it add to the experience? Free videos are already available on the internet, and will continue to be available to entice new customers. Free games is the only thing I see as added value, but it's not value added by the 3D world, and could exist just as easily without it. I doubt you'll see any full-blown game functionality in Home, so what is the added value of walking through a 3D world other than admiring the graphics? In a 3D world you can use emotes, but all of the other chat and voice functionality can exist easily without it. I'm just not seeing a lot of real added experience from the Home world.

 

[patsu]

You can do this in a million and one free PC applications too. This is the epitome of "not important", because it can't be done in games and it doesn't tie together the gaming community. Do a lot of you have real plans to sit around in Home a lot chatting? That seems like a curious use for a game console, to me.

Haven't you met the MUD, Sims and IRC crowd yet ?

The point is it's always the total package (Whether some free app does it at some point in time is inconsequential). All these things add up to create a pleasant and expressive environment for the homies. It's a unique experience Sony tries to create here together with 3rd parties and the users.

I understand it's the original point, but I do not think that "it's never been done all together" before is a strong argument.

It serves as a wow-factor and draw. The concept is extensible. They have taken the time to put these together. Next step is to listen to user feedback and tailor the environment until "it works".

I could make the same argument about an online gaming console app that lets you do your taxes, train your dog, provide psychological counseling, and at the same time play 1950s era movies. I'm sure that's a pretty unique combination, but it's never been done before in a pleasing way, therefore the population will love it.

Irrelevant and random example. In marketing, you have to look at the context, brand relevance too. Sorry.

 

[Asher]

You carry on as if your "wants" equate to the rest of the gaming communities.. Problem is in real life this isn't the case..

What happens if your "buddies" don't like to play the same games as you..? What if they are into flight sims and first person shooters when your staple games are action adventures and sports sims..? (not saying they are, i'm just using this as an example..)

What happens? Nothing good, nothing bad...

Surely in this situation its BETTER to have a smaller community local to the games that you like so that when such like-minded people get online you can all enjoy the same gaming experiences together..?

This makes no sense at all. Having people on your friends list that may be playing a game currently you're not interested prevents you from enjoying the same gaming experiences with other people?

That is mind-boggling.

 

[archangelmorph]

What value, exactly? What free stuff and what value will it add to the experience? Free videos are already available on the internet, and will continue to be available to entice new customers. Free games is the only thing I see as added value, but it's not value added by the 3D world, and could exist just as easily without it. I doubt you'll see any full-blown game functionality in Home, so what is the added value of walking through a 3D world other than admiring the graphics? In a 3D world you can use emotes, but all of the other chat and voice functionality can exist easily without it. I'm just not seeing a lot of real added experience from the Home world.

Huhh???

Did you not see the pool hall..? The Bowling Alley..? The arcade machines...?

 

[Asher]

Haven't you met the MUD, Sims and IRC crowd yet ?

I used IRC extensively and developed, hosted, and administered my own MUD (well, a MUSH) in the 1990s. I know the crowd...

I also know that the PS3 is a $600 console. And that the people can chat for free on the PC without spending $600.

Yes, it's a "value-added" feature to the PS3, but it's not a system seller.

Irrelevant and random example. In marketing, you have to look at the context, brand relevance too. Sorry.

Context: Virtual chatroom on a game console.
Brand relevance: Sony -- no relevance.

Did I miss something?

 

[archangelmorph]

This makes no sense at all. Having people on your friends list that may be playing a game currently you're not interested prevents you from enjoying the same gaming experiences with other people?

That is mind-boggling.

No.. But it doesn't benefit you any better than not having the friend's list when them on in the first place..

Why don't you focus on what i'm saying directly instead of making comments which clearly show your drawing what i'm saying completely out of context..?

 

[Asher]

No.. But it doesn't benefit you any better than not having the friend's list when them on in the first place..

Why don't you focus on what i'm saying directly instead of making comments which clearly show your drawing what i'm saying completely out of context..?

I do not understand what you are saying.

It makes zero sense in any conceivable context.

A unified friendslist is a superset of game-specific friends lists.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Huhh???

Did you not see the pool hall..? The Bowling Alley..? The arcade machines...?

Yes, I did see those. What I meant when I said "full-blown", which I should clarify, is that you won't see a full-featured game, such as a driving simulator or a shooter embedded into home. There may be free mini-games, which are already available in many different online websites or could exist in the XMB without the 3D space around it. I'm just not sure what you're supposed to do in Home other than chat, decorate your home, wander around and look at virtual stores, none of which is new to gamers. A lot of the so-called experience is Home is standard fare that has existed for a long time.