PGR3, Gears of War, Condemnded, WOW. Why did they show PDZ?

[mckmas8808]

I promise you their target market is not 18 and younger. Many noneducated people on videogames tend to think that the target market is 18 and younger too. That is a horrible myth. We all know that the biggest market for videogames are 18 to 35. Look I don't know exactly what MTV's biggest market is, yet I can say that alot of them overlap with the videogame target market.

So you guys are saying to people can be into a Marvel Nemises or a Halo game, but be to old to learn how to hook up their car. Actually to be honest the same audience created Fast and the Furious, Pimp My Ride, and the overkill of street racing games as of late.

Do you think games like Need for Speed Underground and Midnight Club 3 would sell as much as it does without the same exact people who watch Pimp My Ride?
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Ford escort (north america) history

 

[jvd]

I promise you their target market is not 18 and younger. Many noneducated people on videogames tend to think that the target market is 18 and younger too. That is a horrible myth. We all know that the biggest market for videogames are 18 to 35

we are talking about mtv

Look I don't know exactly what MTV's biggest market is, yet I can say that alot of them overlap with the videogame target market.

some what yes , but not completely . Honestly the last time i heard anyone real talk about mtv shows was when i was in highschool. My friends and I (in our 20s ) rarely watch the channel . Mabye cause we are metal and its rap. but i don't know that many 28+ year olds listening to rap

So you guys are saying to people can be into a Marvel Nemises or a Halo game, but be to old to learn how to hook up their car. Actually to be honest the same audience created Fast and the Furious, Pimp My Ride, and the overkill of street racing games as of late.

No , though i don't know that many adults that are into putting neon lights and water fountians in thier cars .

Mtv is def a teenage audiance , look at thier shows that is what they are aimed at .

Do you think games like Need for Speed Underground and Midnight Club 3 would sell as much as it does without the same exact people who watch Pimp My Ride?

Right , no one is argueing that . What i have said is that they hit thier target audiance with the xbox show and that is young teens . Not adults .

 

[mckmas8808]

jvd are you even thinking right now?

Mabye cause we are metal and its rap. but i don't know that many 28+ year olds listening to rap

There are plenty of 28+ year olds that listen to rap. Rap has been around for over 20 years. The people that started to listen to rap mostly back then didn't start when they were 8. They were in there between the ages of 13-30. Many of those same people still listen to rap today.

Anyways MTV is not all rap. Actually rap is a small portion of MTV. IF you were to say BET then I would agree with you. MTV is more diverse. jvd I live hiphop don't try to correct me on this. In this area I know more about it than you.

No , though i don't know that many adults that are into putting neon lights and water fountians in thier cars.

Oh really. How about going to car shows. Many of those people are adults (18 and up) and those same people love videogames.

What i have said is that they hit thier target audiance with the xbox show and that is young teens . Not adults .

Again young teens is not what M$ were only trying to target. They were trying to target unimformed videogame players that don't go on videogame forums to learn about their everyday videogame news.\

jvd its obvious that you don't really understand what MTV is even about. Im not trying to flame you because hundreds of other videogame bloggers everyday say what you say about MTV. You and some others just don't understand the audience.
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Alaska dispensaries

 

[Acert93]

Realistically, I can't believe that you are forming your opinions based solely upon the MTV release clips. Rather, your opinion of the quality of these titles and their ability/inability to be played on current Gen-Hardware is most likely clouded, IMO, by sources other than that which is currently being discussed. You've seen video clips, screen shots, etc.. that are leading you to your currently conclusions.

1. By looking at screen shots and ingame footage one can very well determine if it could be done on a platform. There are always degrees of "hmmm could it be ported and toned down" but the quality we saw--no way.

And that is not an opinion. PGR 3, GR3, GW, NBA 2K6, Condemned, Quake 4, NFS are not technically possible on Xbox in the forms we have seen. Not an opinion, and observation of the texture detail, lighting, shadowing, normal maps, animation, world size, and other features the games demonstrate. You keep saying it is my opinion and it is not. Xbox is not, and NEVER HAS, been able to match the quality demonstrated in the game media we have seen.

Anyone familiar with 3D rendering technology and limitations can see this.

2. Again, leave your uninformed opinion of where I may or may not be influenced out of this and deal with the facts. You can believe I am being influenced by outside sources and therefore can dismiss what I am saying; but instead of telling me how I have not read up on stuff or that my opinion does not count because I am biases at least bring the bacon to the table.

I keep hearing your impression of the rendering and the like. But 3D rendering is like a science--opinions need not apply. Either it can, or cannot, be done. You are not going to do raytracing in realtime on the N64, that is a fact. The SNES does not do normal mapping and the Atari could pull off HDR if it wanted to. I am not sure why this point is so hard to understand. These same principles apply to the Xbox--you just have to know what its limitations are and how things are accomplished in HW.

So far you have denied to even explain how certain games could be done on the Xbox. You also ignored the comparisons of other games in those genres they represent (PGR2 to PGR3, GR2 to GR3, NBA 2K5 to NBA 2K6, etc).

Instead you want to change your stance on what you said, but then turn right back around and tell me that my opinion does not count because of some unknown influences. You want to play both sides of the fense of your opininion on a TECHNICAL issue, and then tell me my challenge is invalid.

The only persons opinion that is clouded on whether these games could be played at this quality on this gen HW is you. The fact you even suggest all but 2 games could be played on the Xbox is indicative of this. And that is not an opinion--opinions and impressions have nothing to do with reality. The 64MB/GF3 class/Celeron 733MHz Xbox is not going to turn these out, and anyone familiar with what is needed to accomplish what these games shown graphically could see that.

 

[jvd]

There are plenty of 28+ year olds that listen to rap. Rap has been around for over 20 years. The people that started to listen to rap mostly back then didn't start when they were 8. They were in there between the ages of 13-30. Many of those same people still listen to rap today.

Erh i'm talking about my friends when i made the comment about metal . My friends and I are into that not rap , thus we wouldn't know if alot of 20 somethings watch mtv since its almost all rap .

But still the programing is aimed at a very young audiance

Anyways MTV is not all rap. Actually rap is a small portion of MTV. IF you were to say BET then I would agree with you. MTV is more diverse. jvd I live hiphop don't try to correct me on this. In this area I know more about it than you.

like i say i don't watch much anymore but when i was in highschool and from what i catch its either tv shows that wuldn't entertain a normal 20 something person or rap .

Oh really. How about going to car shows. Many of those people are adults (18 and up) and those same people love videogames.

i've been to car shows and i've seen neon . But i haven't ever seen a water fall , a gong , or alot of the other stuff they put in the pimp my ride cars .

Again young teens is not what M$ were only trying to target. They were trying to target unimformed videogame players that don't go on videogame forums to learn about their everyday videogame news.\

na if they did that there would have been more info . It was flashy and did nothing but show some games and famous people playing it which is what young teens think is cool

jvd its obvious that you don't really understand what MTV is even about. Im not trying to flame you because hundreds of other videogame bloggers everyday say what you say about MTV. You and some others just don't understand the audience.

erhm . Mtv used to be music television but during the 90s it became all about shows , they have the longest running reality tv series and most of the shows have no substance at all (i've seen them before ) 90% of the content is about the famous actors and bands . They try and stay in pop culture as much as possible and try to make the trends they want .

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Saying these games could be done on Xbox is idiotic.

 

[blakjedi]

Saying these games could be done on Xbox is idiotic.

Maybe not idiotic but.... I think after seeing and playing Forza and SC3 on xbox, many games shown in video form for 360 dont really look that great and certainly not "Next gen". 2K6, GR3, PGR3 and Gears being the exceptions in that list...

 

[firestorm]

...

The MTV Xvid going around the net is shocking in terms of quality, so i wouldnt really call it a "reliable" source for what the nextgen games on Xbox 360 will look and play like.

Think about it: Why would MS showcase their "best" games on MTV??? Anyone who's anyone, including magazine reviewers, Game development companies and potential investors will be watching at E3, not some cheesy 30 min special that hardly showed any gameplay footage at all.

Seriously, the whole point of the MTV special was to hype up the 360 and get people interested. E3 will hold all the answers.

 

[Acert93]

Maybe not idiotic but.... I think after seeing and playing Forza and SC3 on xbox, many games shown in video form for 360 dont really look that great and certainly not "Next gen". 2K6, GR3, PGR3 and Gears being the exceptions in that list...

Hey blakjedi I agree and disagree.

1. The hit and miss quality is typical. Launches are not usually full of reall great looking/great playing games. Most are rushed, incomplete, and lack depth. You rarely buy the fluf at launch, but the 3 or 4 really good titles that transcend the last generation. Console makers sell you on the PROMISE of next gen games. The handful of "WHOA!" games do that. To expect anything different ignores every console launch... like ever.

2. You really should not lump "many games shown in video form for 360 dont really look that great and certainly not "Next gen"" together because they are different. Really different.

Did some of the games not meet up to our expectations of Next Gen? OF COURSE. No disagreement there. You are dead on and I agree.

A good 1/3 looked like ports (higher rez textures, higher resolution, AA, some more stuff in the world, but nothing special.) Another 1/3 looked like PC ports--basically games not doable at the quality shown on a console, but if hacked and scaled back some you could get a similar playing game on the Xbox, minus the eye candy.

The problem is saying "many games shown in video form for 360 dont really look that great" is very relative--and in our discussion about whether they can be done on the Xbox, nonsense. Every game shown would have been a 9 or better on the Xbox in graphics (and I say a 9 because the issue of Genre limitations is a factor).

I will pick on Tiger Woods, which to me was the least impressive game. It looked like a low quality port of their current game from what I saw. Staying within genre being very relevant here, TW 2005 on the Xbox got an 8.0 for graphics. Watch the movie and then look at this screen:

http://media.xbox.ign.com/media/681/681796/img_2125227.html

There is a noticable difference in rendering quality, AA, and detail. Now, TW Xbox 360 looks like a lame port, but when compare it to the preceeding generation within the same genre and the same game maker I cannot see how you can say it does not look very good. Of course it looks very good compared to where it came from. An underwhelming genre graphically on the Xbox will probably continue to be underwhelming graphically on the Xbox 360. Certain genres, liking fighting games, will look better than other genres (like games with 100 players on the screen). So it is relative and you need to compare apples-to-apples.

And that was the worst looking title imo.

Looking great compared to a console and looking Next Gen are two different things. Most console gamers are not PC gamers, their measuring stick is their current console.

While I agree that TW does not look next gen and would not alone be enough to sell people on a new console; the reverse is not true that it does not look very good. It not only looks good, it looks a lot better than what you see on the Xbox right now.

I think a lot of people have set unrealistic expectations this generation, and when you mix in system bias that can be a problem. Not saying you are doing that, but we need to make sure we are not mixing the truth (i.e. some of the games not looking next gen quality) with hyperbole (that some of the games don't even look that good compared to what is out now).

 

[rusty]

two more pgr pics as well

courtesy of xboxyde.com

 

[wco81]

Nice...

Hope they hit 60fps.

 

[blakjedi]

I think a lot of people have set unrealistic expectations this generation, and when you mix in system bias that can be a problem. Not saying you are doing that, but we need to make sure we are not mixing the truth (i.e. some of the games not looking next gen quality) with hyperbole (that some of the games don't even look that good compared to what is out now).

I like the idea of comparing games of like genres across both software and hardware generations. I think we do this instinctively but dont present the same way you did.

In any case, i think PGR3 looks better than any racing title of any generation of any console to date so that makes it next generation to me.

Whereas Tiger Woods X360 which may not technically be possible on xbox (but i still doubt that) didnt even look like a great game of THIS generation.

Enough this talk already!!!!
LOL...Shyte!

I just really want to know if NBA 2k6 is real because if it is... THAT is where everyone has to be if they want to succeed next generation... are there any more clips of gameplay of that game? Was that a cut scene or what?

have good day

 

[Acert93]

I agree. TW is not gonna sell squat looking like that (even if a bump on what they already have this gen).

NBA 2K6--totally agree. At first I thought it was one of those ANNOYING commercials you get before a lot of online media these days. When I realized it was a game I was like Great texturing, GREAT animation, and eye popping cloth animation.

Only thing I saw I did not like was when he was shooting in slo mo, under his arms on his lats it looked plastic like. That could have been the light, but it is a common problem. If they can get 10 players looking like that I will be very happy impressed and happy. THAT is what will sell Next Gen consoles.

have good day

You too man

 

[pc999]

Info and teaser site of GoW

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8256/Gears-of-Wars-New-Info-Revealed-Teaser-Site-Goes-Live/

 

[Fox5]

Yeah honestly i dont know wtf they were thinking. I wanna know the Einstein that tought those graphics were impressive.....really.

Even if we think "Its multiplayer, 50 players a map" it just doesnt......feel right.

Haven't seen the video yet, but does it look more impressive than currenct PC games that have 64 or 128 players to a map?

Does it even look as impressive as ATI's ruby demo?

It'd be really strange to look so bad, considering Rare was basically the visual gods of the n64, and the one thing they retained in this generation appeared to be their graphical talents.(Starfox Adventures looked incredible...Conker looks really good too, though not a huge step up from starfox imo, just a general evolution)

Eh, maybe it's not so bad though, I never thought Halo looked good, I still don't think Halo looks good, but a lot of other people like its graphics.

Only Tiger Woods and PDZ were games I thought looked like stuff that could be done on the Xbox.

Maybe they were? You know, perhaps they actually were running on an xbox since Xbox 2 hardware isn't ready, or maybe they were quick ports of games that were planned to come out on Xbox, but suddenly switched?

BTW, about the picture of PGR3 compared to real life in this thread....I think PGR3 looks better.

 

[Fodder]

Haven't seen the video yet, but does it look more impressive than currenct PC games that have 64 or 128 players to a map?

Technically, it's easily superior compared to Battlefield/Tribes/etc, but aesthetically it's a joke, down around the HL/Q2 level.

 

[jpr27]

To my knowledge these games we basicly done by using the developers kits (G5 derivative). Im not even sure the games were running on the Xbox 360's final hardware. As I mention in another post, at this point in time (they may have final hardware now) game designers were only given estimates or target frame rates to shoot for in early developments. They could then fine tune the game dynamics when the final hardware was available.

Im not in the bit concerned about the Xbox 360 at this point and that so called "unveiling" certainly is not something to make a decision on. I will wait until I get more information (E3 and more) but will probably end up getting the system irregardless.

As for PDZ, Even though its considered a launch title I wouldnt put it past MS to push back the release date if the game is needs more polish. Its a big franchise and investment so why would they want to risk it? But then again it is MS and you never know

As for the other game Systems all I can say is Im very excited for the next generation (including PS3 and the Revolution) so I really dont see the people losing on which ever system they choose.

Play on

 

[bleon]

The reason why Gears of War was not spearheading the Xbox360 unveiling was probably because the screenshots and teaser trailer will not be representative of the final product. I smell false advertising like the first rendered Fable screenshots and the "Raven" demo.

 

[Acert93]

The reason why Gears of War was not spearheading the Xbox360 unveiling was probably because the screenshots and teaser trailer will not be representative of the final product. I smell false advertising like the first rendered Fable screenshots and the "Raven" demo.

Google UE3 Unreal Engine 3 and read up on the Unreal technology. Gears had ingame art (on a PC) shown last year at E3 and it looked just like this, so they have been working on this title for a while. Anyhow, UE3 offers the features to do those pictures in real time. Similar stuff has been shown on current GPUs, so it is possible.

The issue next gen has less to do with technical abilities but the time and budget to make a quality engine and then have a big enough art team to make good use of the power. Few have the money for that--that is why everyone and their mom has licensed the UE3 engine.

 

[passby]

Uh... fellas,

AFAIK: Godfather, Madden, PGR3, and Ghost Recon 3 are all 'gameplay target' visuals mocked up in CG.

Source:
http://tokyopia.com/tk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1994

It's a Tokyopia 'insider'(that is becoming a bad word). 'Legit-ness' very high.