Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers
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75 degree which is the wide lense setting of the PS Eye is probably about as wide as you can go without starting to distort the image. Still that is a pretty wide area, just 3 meters away from the camera you get a range of 4.6 m, that is plenty of space for four people lined up in the sofas and chairs each with a Move in their hand.
As you say when you have more motion intensive games involving both hands and the whole body I think many living rooms will find it hard to contain more than two players within the camera view, so it is probably a calculated restriction by Sony and possibly MS.
article said:
If Sony tries to skim the market (set high price for new controller), then they may risk having another PSPGo backlash while the Move software are not mature yet, during the first 2 years.
It depends on whether they have a catchy concept and WiiSports/WiiFit class title to drive the demand.
Plain troll reported by the way... It's easy to spot lag on vids at full speed there have been article on the matter before the DF article.
By the way putting trolls aside it's the main problem with Sony and Ms technology once you try to do one on one motion mapping and that you have an avatar mimicking your move you're brain tolerance to lag become really low. I've a feeling that even 100ms (which is considered good while playing with a pad) is still too easily noticeable when you do motion mapping.
I didn't read MS claiming true 1-to-1 mapping. Only Nintendo and Sony stated that in their marketing material.
Also, I do not think 1-to-1 mapping means laggy or full body tracking. PS Move doesn't do that. All it tracks are the controller movement, orientation, and absolute position. There is no skeleton building for these data.
For a start, Natal may be going after a different experience. It's not clear if 1-to-1 mapping is important to their titles (Probably not since the games will be designed around the device's strengths). If they need 1-to-1 tracking, they can always introduce a controller/device as well.
Also, I do not think 1-to-1 mapping means laggy or full body tracking. PS Move doesn't do that. All it tracks are the controller movement, orientation, and absolute position. There is no skeleton building for these data.
For a start, Natal may be going after a different experience. It's not clear if 1-to-1 mapping is important to their titles (Probably not since the games will be designed around the device's strengths). If they need 1-to-1 tracking, they can always introduce a controller/device as well.
For me it's not about processing time it's about perception, whether it's accurately tracked or not.
If you make move an avatar or see yourself in a "augmented reality set-up" you're brain is going to react in shaper manner to lag. It's my POV not a scientific fact but I think that you brain for the action like moving an arm is simply used to "no lag at all", large movement (like moving arm) makes the issue worse imho. An example of this could be musical instrument, I'm sure I would find unbearable to play guitar set-up inducing as much as a 100 ms lag.
Eh? So pointing out Move's lag is fine, but Natal's = trolling?
Yes, the perception can be mitigated in the game though. People seem to like Wiimote+ Tennis more than Wiimote Tennis. This implies that there are room for such a device and game. I think Golf and Ping Pong may be fun too.
For your musical instrument example, it depends on how you do it. In the Move case, DemoCoder mentioned that the actual reaction is snappy, but the visual response lags a little. The simple solution is not to show you playing on screen. You need to focus on the scores anyway. The system doesn't have to track full body motion for a piano or drum playing game. Yamaha sells MIDI instruments + digital scores and will sychronize the orchestra with your playing. That's some form of augmented reality to me too. ^_^
Depends on what you want to do. The flailing body demo is doable because IMHO, 3D tracking isn't that important to the player in that game. The concept started on EyeToy anyway. Essentially, in cases where precision is not required, you can approximate the tracking.
The problem is lighting.
PS Move addresses that, plus focuses on precise and responsive upper limbs tracking (or rather controller tracking). The key idea is the "(subconscious) connection" between the user and the system, like WYSIWYG. Natal focuses on the convenience, cost and generality of camera-based tracking. As technology improves, camera-based tracking will become more and more important/useful. Now, it's not so clear because of current limitations (slow and large granularity). It does allow developers to focus on a totally new area of gaming without controllers, beyond EyeToy and PS Eye.
I reckon that both camera-based and sensor-based systems are valuable. The vendors will end up doing both in the future.
What's interesting eventually may be the middleware (e.g., New UI widgets, all sorts of recognition based on sensor and camera data, semantic databases to aid/simplify natural interfaces, etc.). It's like after Cell, Sony has SPURS scheduling, SPU culling, Omega tracking, high performance AA, nAo32, etc. These innovations allow developers to build GT5, GoW3, U2 and KZ2. While Cell scared developers away, the "reusable software" empowered them to tap on Cell.
The problem is lighting.
PS Move addresses that, plus focuses on precise and responsive upper limbs tracking (or rather controller tracking). The key idea is the "(subconscious) connection" between the user and the system, like WYSIWYG. Natal focuses on the convenience, cost and generality of camera-based tracking. As technology improves, camera-based tracking will become more and more important/useful. Now, it's not so clear because of current limitations (slow and large granularity). It does allow developers to focus on a totally new area of gaming without controllers, beyond EyeToy and PS Eye.
I reckon that both camera-based and sensor-based systems are valuable. The vendors will end up doing both in the future.
What's interesting eventually may be the middleware (e.g., New UI widgets, all sorts of recognition based on sensor and camera data, semantic databases to aid/simplify natural interfaces, etc.). It's like after Cell, Sony has SPURS scheduling, SPU culling, Omega tracking, high performance AA, nAo32, etc. These innovations allow developers to build GT5, GoW3, U2 and KZ2. While Cell scared developers away, the "reusable software" empowered them to tap on Cell.
Second Sight: PSP Augmented Reality
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/03/19/psp-augmented-reality-program-used-as-an-educational-tool/
It's like the Lego visualizer in their stores today.
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/03/19/psp-augmented-reality-program-used-as-an-educational-tool/
It's like the Lego visualizer in their stores today.
Jack Tretton will be on Spike this Friday to talk about Move according to this:
http://www.gametrailers.com/images/skyscaper_GTTV_308.jpg
[size=-2]He needs to articulate the original idea and vision behind PS Move (+ PS Eye) ![/size]
Refreshment
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Greetings to the inhabitants of this topic 
These days im slow with my vidgames news feed, lets say, im on an "information diet" So Sony made the grand reveal for its motion solution at GDC.
So anyways, been searching information of some specific features/characterstics of the device but can't find any. Im interested in the following:
Weight, does it rumble, are all buttons analog, whats the battery solution used. Same questions apply for the companion "nunchuk" style controller, plus adding others like if the thumbstick in the device has a digital click and if it features adittional MEMS sensors like acelerometers or gyros.
Theres more but thats what came through my mind while making this message. If anyone has picked this info please share it. Maybe i didnt search enough
Thanks for the time.
These days im slow with my vidgames news feed, lets say, im on an "information diet"
So Sony made the grand reveal for its motion solution at GDC.So anyways, been searching information of some specific features/characterstics of the device but can't find any. Im interested in the following:
Weight, does it rumble, are all buttons analog, whats the battery solution used. Same questions apply for the companion "nunchuk" style controller, plus adding others like if the thumbstick in the device has a digital click and if it features adittional MEMS sensors like acelerometers or gyros.
Theres more but thats what came through my mind while making this message. If anyone has picked this info please share it. Maybe i didnt search enough
Thanks for the time.
Watched the show and yeah I was pretty blown away.
The minority report thing has so far been pretty much reserved Natal territory, but after this demo I can see there are benefits of controlers even in that space. Pretty impressive demo in my opinion.
Patsu were concerned that Sony may set a high price of Move to skimm the market, after listening to Richard Marks comparison to the old EyeToy and its market share I am pretty convinced that Move will be priced competetively to gain a large market share fast. Of course it´s not just a price thing they also need some compelling software to bundle. E3 will be really interesting this year.
Hah, so the signal-to-noise ratio is high ? I'll try to look for a recording online then.
I'll believe it when I see the price tag (mainly because they have to sustain the free online service too, at this point anyway). CE manufacturers have this habit of getting strung by hard numbers. It is in their DNA to obey those accounting sheets (because a mistake could cost the entire company). For better or worse, Kutaragi is a very rare exception.
The problem with the tech demos is that most require two motion controllers, when it only ships with one.
Anyway, Tretton talks about the competition
Anyway, Tretton talks about the competition
http://www.gametrailers.com/episode/gametrailers-tv/88?ch=1&sd=1
Possibly may be you simply got used to it.
You put it really nice as long as you have a reference you will notice lag easily.
I know but average lag for digital music gear is way lower than for video games.
Overall the advantage of ps move and wii mote is that it's still a controller motion mapping is not mandatory as an input. For natal it could get tricky to use body input to control a character without doing motion mapping, who knows devs may prove creative but overall I would not put much penny on it.
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ShadowRunner
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Yep i found the minority report interface really cool too, especially if it was knocked up the night before like they said. In other news Rolf Harris game confirmed
Interesting about the lag, he said it was the tv adding all lag above 22ms hopefully someone can match make of tv to the lag shown in the video and see whats going on here.
Edit:
Also had an idea for movement in a game that uses 2 wands like the robot demo. Simply use the pointer functionality and use trigger to move in direction of pointer like Heavy Rain. Could work well in an slower paced oblivion type game. Feel like posting up on playtations new share site. wil wait until im sober tho lol
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