Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[Delta9]

Wow Delta7, thanks! That looks fantastic! Deserves to be embedded. Really awesome, it really looks up to the LittleBigPlanet standard of things, and genuinely adds something to the game. I really love it! The small things like the Umbrella were just sweet. Also fun how the girl was a bit of a d*ck sometimes, killing sackboy on purpose twice just to see if she could.

Above all though, a big WOW at the precision of the wand. Fantastic.

Yeah,it looks like good fun. Lots of potential with LBP

 

[ShadowRunner]

Time to switch gears guys, the PSC has been discussed death. Here is some news on Natal. They privately demoed Katamari on Natal...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176213

Still don't like the idea of no wand. but if they can support props that would be nice.

Tommy McClain

Sounds similar to Totemball. Wish they would concentrate on showing new game ideas rather than shoehorning natal controls into existing games, its not natals strong point.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I'm thinking that by packaging the Sony PSMC as a PSEye/single wand setup, and also by offering the Wand + DS3 setup for more complex games like FPS' Sony could be making things easier for the Casual and hardcore if they intend to release a secondary controller (i.e. "nunchuck" or equivalent later on).

I would simply love a non-identical second wand with an analogue stick and d-pad which could be sold seperately. Rather than just a simple nunchuck, a second wand would have still retain the precision of the first and make awesome games like the E3 archery demo possible.

That way Sony could allow devs to enable the Wand+DS3 combo as the default control method in those more complex (dual controller) games, especially since the DS3 still has an accellerometer of it's own. Then for those with a bit more money in their pockets, who want the "complete experience" they can just buy the second analogue-stick-wand seperately.

That could be pretty awesome... not sure how possible it could be though.

 

[MfA]

I don't think that's true. High quality MEMS devices aren't cheap

They cost the same to manufacture regardless of quality ... dunno if there are any decent designs with sufficiently cheap licenses to let the Asian fabs pump them out cheaply though. Those Nyko sixaxis clones are pretty cheap nowadays, what kind of sensor is in those?

 

[patsu]

They cost the same to manufacture regardless of quality ... dunno if there are any decent designs with sufficiently cheap licenses to let the Asian fabs pump them out cheaply though. Those Nyko sixaxis clones are pretty cheap nowadays, what kind of sensor is in those?

Specs say a 3-axes accelerometer and a 3-axes gyro.

TGS video.

Little Big Planet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeAHhUF7qSM

Nice ! The most appealing thing about this video is the laughter. So relaxed and casual in a formal Japanese presentation !
The demonstrators seem to have forgotten that they are doing a show. ^_^

The second thing is I finally found a way to overcome the wheel of death. Hope MM patches the last level to support the motion controller. It should be possible to implement the sense of weight with the motion controller (The heavier the obstacle, the slower and more "shaky" it will lift (rumble). The grip needs to be tighter too).

I am more convinced that DS3 + motion controller is a great combo for core gamer + casual gamer co-op. A lot of short, fun levels would do, even episodic ones are fine.

Time to switch gears guys, the PSC has been discussed death. Here is some news on Natal. They privately demoed Katamari on Natal...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176213

Still don't like the idea of no wand. but if they can support props that would be nice.

That's great ! I think it's one of the schemes that suits free hands control. I wonder how much resources it will take Cell to estimate 3D hands tracking like they did with face tracking. Right now, I have only seen rubbing (EyePet), large movement flailing (EyeToy window wiping, ninja fight, etc.) and ferrying objects (Creature Features). These are simpler 2D motion tracking.

It looks more fun than pointing or tilting thumbstick. A mixed mode would be good (switch to less tiring control).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They cost the same to manufacture regardless of quality ...

You've confused me here. Are you saying that the cost to build low noise, high accuracy devices is the same as to build high noise, lower accuracy devices? If true, why does anyone create cheap and nasty products?! As I understand it, although my knowledge here is very limited, we're talking exceptional manufacturing precision and design to produce good quality MEMS. We don't know what's in PSMC, but it'd be wrong to say the parts are $2 a pop, where it's a possibility that the parts are top-tier, $10 per component devices.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Specs say a 3-axes accelerometer and a 3-axes gyro.

MfA means what's in the cheap knock-off Nyko controllers as a benchmark price for a minimum motion controller. Of course, these are two axis components, which are far removed from 3 axis MEMS in terms of cost and complexity AFAIK.

 

[patsu]

MfA means what's in the cheap knock-off Nyko controllers as a benchmark price for a minimum motion controller. Of course, these are two axis components, which are far removed from 3 axis MEMS in terms of cost and complexity AFAIK.

I think SIXAXIS has a 1-axis Murata ENC-03R gyro chip and an HDK 3-axis accelerometer. Nyko won't be better than this specs.

 

[patsu]

In addition to the listed games in the TGS 2009 conference, Under Siege will also support the motion controller at launch:
http://dev.undersiegegame.com/?p=143

Screen shot of Under Siege here: http://dev.undersiegegame.com/wp-content/gallery/screenshots_april/screenshot04.jpg

We got RTS covered.

EDIT: Actually... just give me mouse support.

 

[obonicus]

They say it's more RTT than RTS, that probably means that the units are fixed, maybe more DoW/CoH-style.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think SIXAXIS has a 1-axis Murata ENC-03R gyro chip and an HDK 3-axis accelerometer. Nyko won't be better than this specs.

Okay, I went looking. And came up with this board and these prices :

idg_300 dual axis gyro : $15 ("The cheapest per axis gyro I've been able to find is the Invensense IDG300:" according to board poster)

ADIS16355 High-Precision 3 axis Gyro+ accelerometer : $359

Murata ENC-03R : €25

LPR530AL 2 axis Gyro : $30 for breakout board.

The take home points here are 1) The retail price bares little relation to the bulk-buy price, and 2) The cost of these devices varies hugely, meaning "The innards only cost $2" is completely unsubstantiated and we need an actual BOM leak/analysis to pin down the cost of any of these devices, PSMC and Natal and Wii MotionPlus.

 

[obonicus]

The take home points here are 1) The retail price bares little relation to the bulk-buy price, and 2) The cost of these devices varies hugely, meaning "The innards only cost $2" is completely unsubstantiated and we need an actual BOM leak/analysis to pin down the cost of any of these devices, PSMC and Natal and Wii MotionPlus.

Well, we have an upper bound which is the price of the DS3 -- I'd be willing to eat AzBat's hat if Sony doesn't actually make money on peripherals (and probably plenty of money while we're at it).

 

[patsu]

That upper bound only applies to Nyko and other DS3-like controllers. The new wand is more advanced and more expensive, then add a PSEye on top.

 

[AzBat]

May be they will offer to use two 360 pads (one in each hand) to provide directional input in "core" game

LOL Where's my rim shot?

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

Sounds similar to Totemball. Wish they would concentrate on showing new game ideas rather than shoehorning natal controls into existing games, its not natals strong point.

Totally agree. The time to start showing new stuff is now. I'm not real enthused about the device. So I need to see something cool to convince me otherwise.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

The RE5 presentation segment:

[size=-2]Guess I can't expect him to smile while he's playing a horror game.[/size]

 

[Arwin]

That upper bound only applies to Nyko and other DS3-like controllers. The new wand is more advanced and more expensive, then add a PSEye on top.

And the color-changing led ball. Sure, it's not going to be expensive, but hey, every penny counts here. The leds have to be something that lasts a long time anyway and can handle being dropped. There may also be licence fees going to phillips (for their ambilight technology).

 

[patsu]

I remember the Sony execs debated between different PS Eye specifications and price points before finalizing on the one we have today. There was an article or interview on this. Does anyone know where I can find it ?

 

[Danalys]

And the color-changing led ball. Sure, it's not going to be expensive, but hey, every penny counts here. The leds have to be something that lasts a long time anyway and can handle being dropped. There may also be licence fees going to phillips (for their ambilight technology).

Ambilight is just about getting better black levels as percieved by changing the eyes aparture with extra light in surroundings. I don't think they have a patent on how to produce that light.

 

[AntShaw]

Debated with where to put this, so chose here. It's all over the place but does focus in on motion gaming and their controllers. It's a rather long interview with Trent Reznor of the Nine Inch Nails and art director for NIN Rob Sheridan. I'm a big fan as an artist and Trent has never been shy. Good read.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/24/interview-trent-reznor/

What's your take on Microsoft and Sony entering the motion-controlled market?

Trent: Me and Rob are both big Nintendo fans for a number of reasons. Nintendo approaches gaming from a prospective where Super Mario Bros. is still a classic and doesn't look dated. Look at any game on the PlayStation 1 that tries to exceed past the terrible 3D graphics, with their look alike, sound alike franchise attempts.

With Nintendo, there's this kind of aesthetic that they bring to their in-house games that makes them feel like art. Where they aren't trying to be something else, where they have their own place and are just what they are. I've talked with Rob about this, about why that kind of game is cool, has a timelessness to it and isn't trying to be more than what it is. If I were going to make a video game today I would not put in rendered, 3D characters that try to look human. You know, where when they talk their lips are out of sync and have this weird aliased thing going on. There's that Shadow Complex game, which does looks cool. Every cut scene has the eyes rendered pretty well, but there's that terrible voice acting and the characters look like Fembots.

Rob: The characters usually look better stylized in a way where it lends itself to the media as opposed to trying to look like the latest 3D-animated movie, which can create things super-realistically. When it's done only half way ... well, it's just kind of weird.

Trent: How that applies to Nintendo, and I'm not saying they haven't fucked up a few times too, but they have this sense of here's this game, we're aware of the limitations, but we're going to make the game great with taste and integrity. Being honest, I'm not a huge fan of Sony. Their entire strategy behind the PlayStation is to focus on gaming as an experience last and getting a Blu-ray player in your living room comes first. Now, three years later they're trying to release a motion controller that's a little bit better than the Wii's.