Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[ShadowRunner]

Color me a bit skeptical on that. Especially if games start to use more and more of the SPE's potential, that doesn't leave much for skeletal tracking (no depth so only in 2 dimensions), advanced facial recognition, etc.

That said however, it wouldn't be a problem for Sony to limit its application to simpler/less graphics and physics demanding games.

Regards,
SB

Oh no, i wasnt suggesting PSMC could truly compete with natal as a controller-less interface, just that with clever advertising they could make it seem like it could do much of the same things. It could at least impact the initial perception as something radical and new and instead be seen more as an evolution or improvement of another product already on the market.

If anything simply bringing eyetoy back into the public eye may may have a small effect in reminding people that natal is an evolution of a current controller-less interface. We know that technically there is a huge differerence but with clever marketing from sony would the general public? Cost could also then play a part, if natal is expensive average joe may not find value in the percieved difference.

Not saying any of this will happen or that its likely, just that it could.

Sony has already taken tiny steps in this direction by pointing out the fact that they too can do voice and facial recognition and also some form of sketal tracking after natals reveal. Im sure they will try and emphasize these features in the coming months. We already have singstar and GT, two mass market products using these features.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Oh no, i wasnt suggesting PSMC could truly compete with natal as a controller-less interface, just that with clever advertising they could make it seem like it could do much of the same things. It could at least impact the initial perception as something radical and new and instead be seen more as an evolution or improvement of another product already on the market.

If anything simply bringing eyetoy back into the public eye may may have a small effect in reminding people that natal is an evolution of a current controller-less interface. We know that technically there is a huge differerence but with clever marketing from sony would the general public? Cost could also then play a part, if natal is expensive average joe may not find value in the percieved difference.

Not saying any of this will happen or that its likely, just that it could.

Sony has already taken tiny steps in this direction by pointing out the fact that they too can do voice and facial recognition and also some form of sketal tracking after natals reveal. Im sure they will try and emphasize these features in the coming months. We already have singstar and GT, two mass market products using these features.

I agree! I also think that price will be probably the most important thing for MS to get right with Natal. If they can keep the price of entry low enough such that the average joe could easily justify the cost in order to benefit from the added control enhancements the product brings then MS will have a gold mine on their hands.

On the other hand, considering Natal's functionality I'd be expecting a price tag of at least around £100 for Natal alone (we always get shafted here in the uk). If for arguements sake it does launch around that price, unless it's released with some absolutely "killer" software I'm really not sure many people would want to fork out so much just for the added benefit of being able to use hand gestures and body movements to control NXE...

I do believe that bundling Natal with the 360 will be absolutely imperative if MS wants to have any success with it in the console space. But then if they can pull out something truly majestic software-wise at launch to entice both the casual and hardcore audience then (maybe some clever Natal plus 360 controller games) then maybe they will still see great success with a high price tag. If anything... I do think MS' biggest asset with regards to Natal and it's launch is their marketing departments almost godly ability to make a consumer feel like "you HAVE to HAVE this product, or else you'll DIE!!!!".

With Natal I think it'll ultimately come down to software, marketing and price... with price being the foremost clincher!

 

[patsu]

Press release with some more details:
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/090924b_e.pdf

Key Features:
・Three axes gyroscope, three axes accelerometer
・Bluetooth® 2.0
・Lithium-Ion rechargeable internal battery

It's more accurate than SIXAXIS (with a 1X gyro).

Confirmed games from SCE WWS

Ape Escape (Working Title)
Echochrome 2 (Working Title)
Eccentric Slider (Working Title)
Sing and Draw (Working Title)
Champions of Time (Working Title)
Motion Party (Working Title)
The Shoot (Working Title)
Tower (Working Title)
PAIN
Flower
Hustle Kings
High Velocity Bowling
EyePet

 

[gongo]

I take back what i said wrt to ranking Sony mc as no.1 in potential...its looking like Sixaxis 2.0...so what if you have 1:1 motion when the concept for making mc games are as clunky/unimaginative as this...holding a DS3 in one hand and the wand in another, orly Sony?

I now think Natal could potentially be game changing..sure its not 1:1, it has quite high an input lag wrt to the other 2, but for all intent and its purposes...it may just bring about the promised new form of virtual game play....it works with the original 360 controller just fine....you know the slim Xbox 360 will come with Natal so that would be some push too.

 

[patsu]

I take back what i said wrt to ranking Sony mc as no.1 in potential...its looking like Sixaxis 2.0...so what if you have 1:1 motion when the concept for making mc games are as clunky/unimaginative as this...holding a DS3 in one hand and the wand in another, orly Sony?

I agree !

Sony needs to work harder and smarter if they want to make a real difference instead of inheriting ported Wii games. ^_^

Shuhei mentioned that if you buy a second controller, the games will take advantage of it. Even then, the default configuration would be the most use, and will form the primary impression.

The SCE WWS games are not that inspiring. So far, EyePet is the only amazing one. Showed it to a couple of friends and they liked it. Was hoping for more innovation. Need to see the LBP motion control scheme and GT5 head tracking next.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I was going to agree, but then I thought maybe it's because Nintendo were there first and have a wide enough patent that Sony can't have a separate Nunchuck type controller? Although they could design any existing controller however they wanted.

They should have analogue on the wand though. Even if just a PSP style nub.

 

[patsu]

Does the RE5 demo use the same control scheme as the Wii RE4 game ? If so, the dev is simply doing a quick port to recoup their investment. The really innovative one will need extra time and resources to experiment.

PixelJunk Monster would be great with the controller, but it's not on the list. I guess there is no incentive for them to implement it if the wand starts from zero base.

Essentially, where is the equivalent of "Wii Sports" for the PS3 controller ? By equivalent, I don't mean a port of Wii Sports. Perhaps something more different since Sony has PS Eye too.

 

[Arwin]

I take back what i said wrt to ranking Sony mc as no.1 in potential...its looking like Sixaxis 2.0...so what if you have 1:1 motion when the concept for making mc games are as clunky/unimaginative as this...holding a DS3 in one hand and the wand in another, orly Sony?

That's not Sony though, that's Capcom. Personally I can't blame them - Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition was hugely successful, and this is a great way to re-sell RE5. I personally think it's a good idea, and since I've been playing Motorstorm much like this with just one hand, I think it's definitely doable and more than comfortable enough for me. Though as I said in the other thread, I could imagine them mapping the movement to the tilt as well as an option, but they probably won't so that they can keep that bit of control input fully compatible with the rest.

This has nothing to do with the new games that are being developed specifically for the wand though! They will still typically be designed for the wand and the camera, and have optional support for a second wand.

It's like I predicted all along though, in that Sony's MC setup is greatly suitable for porting Wii control methods to the PS3, which is a definite advantage in that it's the best way to guarantee a lot of support quickly. The PS3 motion controller even comes with the same third party SDK as WiiMotionPlus

Also, as I mentioned in the other thread, it's not possible for Sony to completely abandon the DS3 - too many games rely on it and/or simply play the best with it, and the wand wasn't there at launch. What we see here I think is basically a confirmation that from the Spring on the PS3 will launch with a DS3, Wand and PS Eye packed in.

I now think Natal could potentially be game changing..sure its not 1:1, it has quite high an input lag wrt to the other 2, but for all intent and its purposes...it may just bring about the promised new form of virtual game play....it works with the original 360 controller just fine....you know the slim Xbox 360 will come with Natal so that would be some push too.

It definitely has potential, but it will not be that easy to realise fully. I think a good exercise is to look at Wii Summer sports, and try to imagine how you would control the games in there with Natal.

 

[StefanS]

That's not Sony though, that's Namco. Personally I can't blame them - Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition was hugely successful, and this is a great way to re-sell RE5.

That's not Namco either, but Capcom

 

[ShadowRunner]

I suspect Sony will have something else in development for the analog part, its possible it just wasnt ready to be shown yet. If not a 3rd party will almost certainly bring out something.

Biggest dissapointment for me is that they didnt show anything that uses the unique features of the device, essentialy just showing its use as a pointer, wii has been doing that for years even without motion+

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's like I predicted all along though, in that Sony's MC setup is greatly suitable for porting Wii control methods to the PS3, which is a definite advantage in that it's the best way to guarantee a lot of support quickly.

And a great way to turn off all the existing user base who haven't bought a Wii because it doesn't offer enough for them. PSMC is supposed to be moving gaming forwards. If it doesn't, I don't see any point in anyone buying one, which means the userbase will never grow, which means no developer will support it, and it'll be another dead peripheral.

This device needs some gobsmackingly good game to launch it, or we'll have another PSEye situation with a handful of limited motion-gimmick games fading into obscurity.

 

[patsu]

I suspect Sony will have something else in development for the analog part, its possible it just wasnt ready to be shown yet. If not a 3rd party will almost certainly bring out something.

Biggest dissapointment for me is that they didnt show anything that uses the unique features of the device, essentialy just showing its use as a pointer, wii has been doing that for years even without motion+

They showed an earlier clip with various in-game motion sensing uses (work-in-progress). There are definitely games that didn't make the list. e.g., GT5

 

[Danalys]

Thought I'd comment on the announced games

Ape Escape (Working Title)
Hopefully this is for PSMC what Ape Escape was for dual analog.

Echochrome 2 (Working Title)
Just pointing to place holes and springs?

Eccentric Slider (Working Title)
Sing and Draw (Working Title)
No idea about these two.

Champions of Time (Working Title)
Edit: Actually think this is the fighting game they've shown briefly

Motion Party (Working Title)
This I think is the Eye toy play Wii play like mini game collection. Pinata and a few other things have been shown.

The Shoot (Working Title)
Light gun shooter like.

Tower (Working Title)
Stacking game i think.

Could do with vid caps from the brief complilation vids from Gamescom and TGS to work out more.

 

[patsu]

The big mistake is they allow Capcom to show RE5 by just porting the Wii scheme over. Given the short porting time, of course they will need the analog stick with the same exact game. It's an inferior experience because of the clunky concept (even if it's doable). As Shifty pointed out, there is no/little point in RE5 + clunky motion control. This is exactly what core gamers fear all along. And Sony confirmed it publicly.

The LBP one is more interesting. For motion games, it may be important to show the gamers' faces. WiiSports is brilliant because it is able to convey the feeling of fun instantly. e.g., I am much more happy seeing this picture:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2009/09/gam_sonykeynotemotion_580.jpg

TGS 2009 looks like a status update chore for Sony. Need to see the conference video to get a better sense.

EDIT: If they had shown co-op RE5 with DS3 and the motion controller (like the LBP demo), it would be a different picture altogether.

... or play RE5 on-rail with the motion controller to further make it more accessible. I know my wife hates exploration. Perhaps many casuals don't have too much time to get into it.

 

[Danalys]

Think i've got this worked out based on similarities in fonts and icons

Champions of Time (Working Title)

The Shoot (Working Title)

Tower (Working Title)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Champions of Time may actually do it, if it offers realistic 1:1 motion controlled fighting.

 

[Refreshment]

How Sony manages to avoid putting a thumbstick in there?

Also it strikes me as puzzling when people asks Sony to release a "Nunchuck" for the wand controller, of the possible solutions, (the Nunchuck) is the one that makes less sense.

 

[patsu]

How Sony manages to avoid putting a thumbstick in there?

I think it may be hard to control the thumbstick while flinging the big stick around.

Also it strikes me as puzzling when people asks Sony to release a "Nunchuck" for the wand controller, of the possible solutions, (the Nunchuck) is the one that makes less sense.

Heh, I also think that the nunchuck is awkward even in Wii, but it's needed for core gaming. Filing it under "historic reasons" at the moment.

 

[patsu]

In addition to the listed games in the TGS 2009 conference, Under Siege will also support the motion controller at launch:
http://dev.undersiegegame.com/?p=143

Under Siege currently supports some cool things like:
- Native 1080p (not upscaled )
- Replay recording with option to upload to YouTube
- Motion Controller support
- Splitscreen for Co-Op and Competitive
- 4 players online
- Video and voice chat in game and on lobby (with tiny windows on the corner!)
- Photo Mode (WipEout we envy you…)
- Custom Soundtracks

And of course a full blown in-game editor where you can:
- Create your own level (single player, multiplayer) or a full campaign with your story
- Use the same tools that we used to make the Single Player Campaign
- Upload it all for everyone to see (and make us sweat with the all the wrong possibilities that a tool like this provides)

 

[Danalys]

I think it may be hard to control the thumbstick while flinging the big stick around.

Wouldn't be too hard while pointing tho, and the point is that you can just get two of them and it replaces and adds to the dual shock experience. If they have sticks, two triggers and the right amount of buttons that is.