Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[Refreshment]

The RE5 presentation segment:

[size=-2]Guess I can't expect him to smile while he's playing a horror game.[/size]

Think this video helps vanish some of the speculation regarding processing requirements for the motion calculations coming from the wand. Many people where wondering how taxing for the PS3 would motion tracking be in a complex game, since the console is handling the data.

I didn't perceive any downgrades in the game in that short presentation at least.

Time to switch gears guys, the PSC has been discussed death. Here is some news on Natal. They privately demoed Katamari on Natal...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176213

Still don't like the idea of no wand. but if they can support props that would be nice.

Tommy McClain

I think this is the video of that demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3T_uvGTfAs&feature=player_embedded

Feels kind of empty. Think more enjoyment could be extracted if playing this game with the balance board or something similar instead, a more tangible experience one could say. I wonder if the Balance Board has the precision to pull it off.

 

[AzBat]

I think this is the video of that demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3T_uvGTfAs&feature=player_embedded

Feels kind of empty. Think more enjoyment could be extracted if playing this game with the balance board or something similar instead, a more tangible experience one could say. I wonder if the Balance Board has the precision to pull it off.

Thanks for the video. Definitely puts it into perspective. Kinda agree, but not sure until I could try it for myself. One thing I read was that MS most likely won't release patches existing games to use Natal since "a publisher would likely have to re-release the game in its entirety."

http://www.destructoid.com/tgs-09-p...-to-work-with-natal-not-possible-149867.phtml

One cool thing I read was that Kojima has grand hardcore ideas for the tech...

http://kotaku.com/5368212/kojima-talks-more-about-hardcore-natal-plans

Now that might get me on board. Just hope it doesn't involve moving around wearing a cardboard box. LOL

Some people might be more interested in Fable instead...

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/24/microsofts-phil-spencer-easily-envisions-fable-natal-crossover/

Also, looks like they also showed Space Invaders Extreme using Natal...

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/25/tgs-2009-body-on-project-natal-with-space-invaders-extreme/

Get to the real Natal games dammit!

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

Think this video helps vanish some of the speculation regarding processing requirements for the motion calculations coming from the wand. Many people where wondering how taxing for the PS3 would motion tracking be in a complex game, since the console is handling the data.

I didn't perceive any downgrades in the game in that short presentation at least.

The controller has built-in sensors like SIXAXIS. Response time and resource usage should be similar. The PSEye absolute positioning part may not need to happen that frequently.

 

[zed]

WRT the katamari demo, still the same issues, if you look close its still not doing exactly what the person is doing eg the last second the person moves the hands to the right but the blob just moves forward.

I guarantee what we will see are wrist bands etc eg with reflective material, or led's etc to help the machine track the persons movement, either released by MS or a 3rd party.
You read it here first!

Though like I said fitness or party games where it doesnt really matter if its only tracking the person movements approx then natal will shine

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think this is the video of that demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3T_uvGTfAs&feature=player_embedded

That's an awful lot of effort for a straight forward left/right/forward control scheme. I guess this is targeted for a demographic with completely tastes to me! IMO a better motion game would be to have the player simply lean left/right/forward/backwards in a racer, and have a simple race with hazards to avoid. The end result would be the player dodging in a natural way and a very immersive experience that doesn't look forced. You could go a little more adventurous with reaching out a hand to grab a point globe type thing. So far though what little I've seen of Natal has been somewhat contrived.

Incidentally, how much do people want to move with these controllers? By people I mean our population here. I for one don't want active games. EyeToy was fun but too hot and bothersome for a fun, relaxing pastime. I don't mind small arm movements, like Warhawk piloting, but I don't want much more exaggerated than that. Certainly something that needs me to stand is going to have to offer something pretty amazing to get me interested!

 

[ShadowRunner]

Article on a new controller team kojima were thinking about making:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176245

"We tried running electric shock waves, installing a pulse reader ... we also tried to build a controller that's receptive to the strength of the [player's] grip,"

Reading this article made me think they may have had quite an influence and input on the design of PSMC. We know from comments in the PS blog videos that there is hints to something special about the way you can grip objects with the control. I believe they hinted at the big button/pad in the middle having something special about it also that they didnt want to reveal, possibly some sort of vitality sensor...

 

[Arwin]

Ambilight is just about getting better black levels as percieved by changing the eyes aparture with extra light in surroundings. I don't think they have a patent on how to produce that light.

No it isn't. It's for simulating environment light, and initially in the TVs this was based on the colors shown in the current picture - e.g. look at a forest and the ambilight will create green colors. But later this was also extended to a gaming setup which even includes fans for simulating wind (!). There was even support released for this peripheral for the PS3 SDK, iirc. On the other hand, that inclusion may already cover most of the cost, and/or it may well be that the use of this light in the PSMC isn't specified to have that purpose, only as identification of the player, improving optical recognition and other signalling features rather than environmental simulation (though there seems no denying that it could be used that way).

 

[ShadowRunner]

Hope it doesnt produce too much ambient light, i game on a projector ambient light is my enemy

 

[obonicus]

That's an awful lot of effort for a straight forward left/right/forward control scheme.

Katamari games don't have a straightforward control scheme. They're played with both analog sticks, which is probably why the player has to use both hands.

 

[patsu]

That's an awful lot of effort for a straight forward left/right/forward control scheme.

...

Incidentally, how much do people want to move with these controllers? By people I mean our population here. I for one don't want active games. EyeToy was fun but too hot and bothersome for a fun, relaxing pastime. I don't mind small arm movements, like Warhawk piloting, but I don't want much more exaggerated than that. Certainly something that needs me to stand is going to have to offer something pretty amazing to get me interested!

I think for motion games like the Katamari example and EyeToy mini-games, the point is to get people off their seats. The interface is second nature for all, so there should be very little barrier to participate.

Once they get in the groove, the game can always introduce more convenient/complex control scheme shortcuts to move the player to level 2.

This is assuming the control scheme is responsive, consistent and accurate enough. Otherwise it's back to the drawing board.

Article on a new controller team kojima were thinking about making:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176245

Reading this article made me think they may have had quite an influence and input on the design of PSMC. We know from comments in the PS blog videos that there is hints to something special about the way you can grip objects with the control. I believe they hinted at the big button/pad in the middle having something special about it also that they didnt want to reveal, possibly some sort of vitality sensor...

At this stage, I still expect Microsoft to use a controller exactly for the motivation behind Kojima's ideas. A 'deep' control scheme needs some form of feedback and can benefit from a sense of weight.

Regarding variable grip, I agree it would be a useful addition. And yes, I did read somewhere that the PS3 controller will have a way to do so via pressure sensitive button. Dr. Marks' team have been working on natural interfaces and exploring with developers for so many years, I wouldn't be surprised if Kojima and other big name designers have been approached multiple times for feedback.

 

[patsu]

Who is this guy ?
http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/sonys-next-wii-type-controller/231233

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The split controller looks good on paper, but I don't think the ergonomics are particularly good for one handed use. The controls are sticking out to the side of the hand holding the controller. It makes more sense to me to have the stick under the natural lie of the thumb.

 

[Arwin]

The split controller looks good on paper, but I don't think the ergonomics are particularly good for one handed use. The controls are sticking out to the side of the hand holding the controller. It makes more sense to me to have the stick under the natural lie of the thumb.

You can try it today - SplitFish has been making split controllers already for a while, also for PS3.

http://www.splitfish.com/

 

[AzBat]

Interesting idea for Natal: In-Game Video Capture

http://kotaku.com/5372976/is-microsoft-working-on-universal-vid-cap-for-xbox-360-games

When I first read this I was thinking capturing your motion during gameplay & playing it back through the character animation in something like Halo 3's Theater mode. So you can see a recording of your motions played out through the whole game. But as I read it I think they are talking about recording the actual video & not the MoCap. I like idea of the former and not the latter. I can see that normal games that use a controller might support capturing your motions for celebrations during the game or at end of matches. Just imagine the next teabag.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

Good to see the platform holders finally get to it. This was one of the desired features mentioned earlier this gen. In fact, the larger picture is group spectating. It'd take up precious network resources. So in-game recording would be a good next step. PS3 has YouTube recording but the developers need to support it explicitly.

I am still counting on spectating coming some day (especially for dedicated server setup). It's one of my favorite features in KZ2 and RFOM.

EDIT: Video capture would be a powerful marketing tool though, especially if touch up is added automatically (like Photo mode).

 

[Rangers]

Mark Rein talks about Natal.

Basically trying to position UE3 as the official engine of Natal. Also

Exactly, no need to find your remote. And it has voice activation too, so "TV on", "TV off", "Last.fm", "Twitter", whatever, just tell it commands and it will do each one. That's pretty cool too. And you know, I think they said they were going to ship Natal with every Xbox when they actually launch the thing, so everybody will have one. And then they are going to sell it to everybody who doesn't have one. Or try.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That kinda contradicts recent comments that the cost of Natal will drop over time, suggesting a high starting price.

"Relative to Natal, we'll see how the pricing/costs work out," Bach said. "But I think people should expect it to be like other things: We work through the price curve, just like we have with other products."

 

[patsu]

Went to Lego in Hillsdale, San Mateo. They have an augment reality marketing app in-store. Basically you hold up a lego set in front of the camera, the screen will overlay the completed lego set on top of the lego box you're holding.

People were amazed by the app. Natal and PSEye should do more co-marketing projects like this.

 

[wco81]

iPhone is getting augmented reality apps, superimposing data about the street scene you're seeing in the live video feed from the phone's camera.

But it has nothing to do with motion control AFAIK.

 

[patsu]

Yap, I believe it's called LAYAR: http://layar.com/
It superimposes Google maps, and other Internet data (e.g., property info) with iPhone's video camera feed. There is some motion detection because the map and GIS data will pan and rotate automatically depending on how you orientate the phone and move around. It seems to make use of the built-in compass for the orientation.

EDIT: Btw, we had a WebKit discussion earlier in B3D. Based on Quirksmode's study, the WebKit in mobile devices are not as full featured as first thought:
http://www.precentral.net/webkit-browsers-tested-compatibility

Still hope Sony will port one to PS3 though.