Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[patsu]

*If* Sony decides to push 2 wands per user, then I agree.

If the common use case is 1 wand per person, then I have my doubt with the analog stick on the wand. Some of the movements can be replaced by wrist action instead of thumb action. Limiting analog stick use to only stationary pointing sounds like an overkill.

I do recognize that the thumbstick is sorely needed though. It's a little frustrating to settle that we need a separate nunchuck just for the stick. Then again, I am pretty sure Nintendo thought through this carefully.

It may be possible to infer some action from the overall head and body posture + movement (a la Natal/PS Eye style) but that seems imprecise. What we need is a 360 degree thread mill.

 

[Danalys]

Well they don't need to push two per user. One can work fine for many "casual" games. People using that could ignore the stick altogether.

Imagine you play two player using two controllers each. then for a party game get four people playing a game that just requires one controller per person.

As far as i see it it's a case of centerable control being required for certain actions. Wands Wiimotes etc are 3D mice but then you also need your analog stick. A 3D stick would be prefferable but not so easy to pull of on a controller. Analog triggers can make up for this.

Now you might not need a d-pad because menus become selectable with pointing, and in the case of other things, yes you could just move the controller sharply in the direction required. A quarter circle becomes a little hand movement rather than thumb etc. Or you use buttons in lieu of the dpad.

 

[patsu]

Bah... I need to hold one to get a feel.

Having a stick or some sort of tilt button on each wand will make the setup more flexible. The scenarios you described still lean towards 2 wands per active player for the complete experience.

I think Sony wants to set the entry price low (i.e., 1 wand only).

Overall it's a problem of their positioning. If they want to drop the analog stick, they should just not do the RE5 demo. Simply conduct an internal focus test and tell developers that DS3 + wand is not a good enough setup for most (if proven true). The devs will find other workaround for it. We just won't get straight Wii ports. There are many other "enjoyable" configurations.

I'd say most core gamers won't be interested in RE5 + clunky set up anyway.

 

[Danalys]

I'm mostly not intrested in buying the same game twice. Even with a few add ons and a new control system. But some people do.

They have already demonstrated two wand play with the shield sword demo and archery. Both demos which appealed to the hardcore the most. Altho personaly I dream of a painting/sculpting program. They could take a page out of Nintendos book and sell the kit with one controller but sell a game that needs an extra with an extra.

 

[MfA]

These wands are just pieces of plastic with 2 bucks worth of electronics, the batteries are probably the most expensive parts ... if they sell you one it's because they want to keep the profit high, not the price low

 

[patsu]

Low entry price/high profit are just flip sides of the same coin. Sony need to balance their profit and the consumers' "willingness to buy". The distribution channel will take some of that margin away since the wand should be available separately. Naturally, Sony would want to at least recover the loss in selling the basic PS3 hardware unit.

The wand(s) will also need a PS Eye.

 

[Refreshment]

I think it may be hard to control the thumbstick while flinging the big stick around.

Hi Patsu:
Like others posters pointed out, i was talking about the possibility that allows the inclusion of a thumbstick. That is a 2nd wand to function as a Wii Nunchuk. So you'll have the cheap DS3/Wand combo and the "ideal" 2 wand configuration for your more complex/demanding/whatever games.

Heh, I also think that the nunchuck is awkward even in Wii, but it's needed for core gaming. Filing it under "historic reasons" at the moment.

Im not against a Nunchuck per se. But the more you analyze the existence of the peripheral,as it is, the more you see that the economics reasons were more powerful than ergonomics, philosophical or design reasons Nintendo might have though about.

Also we agree the inclusion of the thumbstick allows for more potential uses for this peripheral. So its absence so far is... puzzling... since it wont greatly amplify the perceived complexity of the controller nor its price.

 

[patsu]

Hi Patsu:
Like others posters pointed out, i was talking about the possibility that allows the inclusion of a thumbstick. That is a 2nd wand to function as a Wii Nunchuk. So you'll have the cheap DS3/Wand combo and the "ideal" 2 wand configuration for your more complex/demanding/whatever games.

Yeah... I misunderstand your 2 wand set up. I was assuming that the wands are identical. In your case, you seem to be talking about an asymmetrical wand setup exactly like Wiimote + nunchuck.

I wanted the symmetric setup for archery. ^_^

Im not against a Nunchuck per se. But the more you analyze the existence of the peripheral,as it is, the more you see that the economics reasons were more powerful than ergonomics, philosophical or design reasons Nintendo might have though about.

Also we agree the inclusion of the thumbstick allows for more potential uses for this peripheral. So its absence so far is... puzzling... since it wont greatly amplify the perceived complexity of the controller nor its price.

Too many mysteries, need the PS Blog folks to do another interview with Dr Marks.

 

[Refreshment]

Yeah... I misunderstand your 2 wand set up. I was assuming that the wands are identical. In your case, you seem to be talking about an asymmetrical wand setup exactly like Wiimote + nunchuck.

I wanted the symmetric setup for archery. ^_^

I want the symmetrical set up also. Just one universal wand.

Normally don't get too involved in these types of discussions, just wasting bytes and internet bandwidth. "BUT" it is too bad or sad that the solution that works like we all expected the Wii to do gets ruined for some lack of vision. Sony has already invested the resources with this enterprise, so why not just do a tiny little final effort to correctly pull this off?

Found this somewhat irritating, dont know the rest of you guys

P.S.: You dont even know the kind of emotions that archery demo produced. That was the finest moment of E3 for me.

 

[Iron Tiger]

Essentially, where is the equivalent of "Wii Sports" for the PS3 controller ? By equivalent, I don't mean a port of Wii Sports. Perhaps something more different since Sony has PS Eye too.

It's in the works.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Any possibility that the buttons on the face of the wand would act as a touchpad, like in the keyboard thingy that's attached in the DS3?
That would be a good enough substitute for analog stick, though there might just be too few buttons and too far apart for them to work as a touchpad.
So, I think movement in for example fps games would be controlled just with the digital face buttons (which might be pressure sensitive, but that really hasn't worked so far...)

 

[_phil_]

I don't think having analogstick on the motion wand would be a good idea at all from an ergonomic Pov...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

These wands are just pieces of plastic with 2 bucks worth of electronics...

I don't think that's true. High quality MEMS devices aren't cheap, and 3 axis gyros and accelerometers weren't cheap nor readily available certainly when motion control launched. I'm sure we have some expert here who can hazard a guess at unit price for these bits.

 

[patsu]

I want the symmetrical set up also. Just one universal wand.

Normally don't get too involved in these types of discussions, just wasting bytes and internet bandwidth. "BUT" it is too bad or sad that the solution that works like we all expected the Wii to do gets ruined for some lack of vision. Sony has already invested the resources with this enterprise, so why not just do a tiny little final effort to correctly pull this off?

You know Sony... they are pretty money minded these days. Kaz Hirai told Reuters yesterday that he wants to return to profitability next term. Can't really say they are wrong; they need the returns to plow back into development and operation, but I can understand how you feel.

Found this somewhat irritating, dont know the rest of you guys

P.S.: You dont even know the kind of emotions that archery demo produced. That was the finest moment of E3 for me.

The archery is nice. So far I was blown away by the sketch recognition. The snake control may be promising too (e.g., for piloting a plane. Everyone here pretty much know I can't pilot a plane with the traditional method).

 

[Arwin]

For me its still spray painting / graffiti and sword-fighting.

Anyway, I personally like the idea of two identical wands for most controls. Thinking about a game like one that has sword-fighting, I really feel it should be more than possible to find a way to control your movement with one of these wands. Say that the wand you use to hold your shield is only used for actual shielding when you keep the x button pressed, and otherwise the analog trigger and pointing in a direction controls where you go. In the same way, the sword wand could allow you to look around when not pressing the x button, and as we have 1:1 movement, jumping forward or sideward and everything inbetween (slowly moving sidewards etc) can be done through lateral movement - there's no longer an issue there with lag that the accellerometers suffered from making this not very responsive or reliable for the original wii-mote and sixaxis.

 

[liolio]

I don't think having analogstick on the motion wand would be a good idea at all from an ergonomic Pov...

I thank about it too and it's indeed not perfect especially if you swing the device too much.
But in say a fps where you will make tiny movement it could work. And honestly I fail to see the controler + wand as a more viable option. W&S anyway.

 

[AzBat]

Time to switch gears guys, the PSC has been discussed death. Here is some news on Natal. They privately demoed Katamari on Natal...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176213

Still don't like the idea of no wand. but if they can support props that would be nice.

Tommy McClain

 

[Delta9]

TGS video.

Little Big Planet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeAHhUF7qSM

 

[liolio]

Time to switch gears guys, the PSC has been discussed death. Here is some news on Natal. They privately demoed Katamari on Natal...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176213

Still don't like the idea of no wand. but if they can support props that would be nice.

Tommy McClain

May be they will offer to use two 360 pads (one in each hand) to provide directional input in "core" game

 

[Arwin]

Wow Delta9, thanks! That looks fantastic! Deserves to be embedded. Really awesome, it really looks up to the LittleBigPlanet standard of things, and genuinely adds something to the game. I really love it! The small things like the Umbrella were just sweet. Also fun how the girl was a bit of a d*ck sometimes, killing sackboy on purpose twice just to see if she could.

Above all though, a big WOW at the precision of the wand. Fantastic.