Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[joker454]

please tell me how to play a FPS game with Natal

I know all about PS3MC, a bunch of friends have been working on it for ages, but I know little to nothing about Natal aside from the video today. But if it can detect where limbs are and depth as well, then it should be adaptable to all types of games including fps. In other words, if it can position your hands in three space, then you should be able to do just about anything with it. It may be dependent on software support for that, but that's Microsoft strong suit anyways.

 

[liolio]

Without another accessory, Natal cannot ultimately do whatever PS3MC can do.

PS3MC consist in two pieces, eye toy + nunchuck like stuff.
Between I'm not sure the tech is intended for fps, what Ms showed was clearly aimed to super casual audience, the kind who usually is happy enough with monoploy.

 

[Strange]

Nobody has mentioned the lack of integration as a problem with Sony's design. Think of the different scenarios that have to be accounted for by a multi-part system like that. Create one package which includes a PSEYE, and one or more wand controllers? Sell the wand controllers and PSEYE seperately? Both? Allow games to require 1 or 2 wand controllers to operate? I can see this creating customer confusion as to what hardware they need to actually make this work and that could blunt it's appeal irrespective of how well the system works or how good the games are that take advantage of it.

Eye of Judgement seemed like a good bundle that told the user what you need.

Besides, wouldn't that be the same for the new motion plus for wii?

 

[liolio]

I don't really think Natal will be truly ready, refined and cost efficient until next gen

It clearly depend on what kind of hardware the thing include and the porcessing power needed to run the proprietary software. We're kind of let in the dark so far.

 

[Strange]

I know all about PS3MC, a bunch of friends have been working on it for ages, but I know little to nothing about Natal aside from the video today. But if it can detect where limbs are and depth as well, then it should be adaptable to all types of games including fps. In other words, if it can position your hands in three space, then you should be able to do just about anything with it. It may be dependent on software support for that, but that's Microsoft strong suit anyways.

Come on, with that amount of lag? and how are you going to pull the trigger? don't get me started on the precision Natal has.....

 

[Chandler55]

ok i dont know about you guys but this natal stuff seems over the top, I look at the field of vision computing and they cant even track a persons face without great lighting conditions and perfect calibration. it reminds me a lot from speech-to-text algorithms, where you're trying to make something out of a lot of noise, and speech-to-text took a dozen years and it still isn't perfect.

mapping pixels to a 3d model, I dont know man at the very least you could do what eyetoy is doing , and maybe with more precision, but isnt there lag as well in most cameras

 

[Nesh]

???
Do we even see d pad or something on Sony prototype that would allow you to move in game? If needed that would be that tough for MS to split the 360 controler in two?
As for selection a finger could do there no need for ubber precision just making big enough movements, it's not like they state the tech can track my finger while I try to play a random malmsteen licks.

The concept of the PS3 motion controller does allow for a d-pad implementation.

That is something missing from Natal on the other hand since it does not require any tangible object that can have a d-pad unless there is some kind of other solution we did not think about or the player holds something. The latter defeats the purpose of Natal.

 

[onanie]

PS3MC consist in two pieces, eye toy + nunchuck like stuff.
Between I'm not sure the tech is intended for fps, what Ms showed was clearly aimed to super casual audience, the kind who usually is happy enough with monoploy.

Indeed, as it stands (without additional "pieces"), Natal is for casual, and casual only.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Nobody has mentioned the lack of integration as a problem with Sony's design. Think of the different scenarios that have to be accounted for by a multi-part system like that. Create one package which includes a PSEYE, and one or more wand controllers? Sell the wand controllers and PSEYE seperately? Both? Allow games to require 1 or 2 wand controllers to operate? I can see this creating customer confusion as to what hardware they need to actually make this work and that could blunt it's appeal irrespective of how well the system works or how good the games are that take advantage of it.

I think the controller will end up being something like the rumored split Dualshock. Bundle one controller with the PS eye. The package should be simple enough.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Come on, with that amount of lag? and how are you going to pull the trigger? don't get me started on the precision Natal has.....

I can see the limitations of not having buttons, but until people actually play it comments about precision and lag are just guesswork.

 

[Naboomagnoli]

Natal doesn't look suited to pointing (or moving from point A to point B without a controller) at all, and there is a considerable lag in the b-roll videos knocking about on Youtube which would seem to compound this issue. Obviously (as has been said), time will tell whether this is or isn't the case; however I think people who are trying to pitch Natal against PS3MC are missing the point. The PS3MC is meant to be a precision instrument; Natal is meant to be more about increasing personal involvement. They are intended to be used in different ways, and should play to their strengths rather than to that of their rivals.

Incidentally, what does everyone make of the voice recognition? It's certainly cool, but it doesn't seem like something the PSEye can't do does it? I played EndWar using my PSEye to pick up my voice with no problems at all. Natal implies the recognition is done within the Natal's own processing system, whereas the PSEye would rely on software. Is that the only difference, or is there more to it?

 

[TheChefO]

what Ms showed was clearly aimed to super casual audience, the kind who usually is happy enough with monoploy.

Exactly.

Wii has been doing a great job with it, but if grandma doesn't even need to press a button or hold anything (arthritis etc), then this will have even more room to grow.

Also, not having to point at the screen will help.

I see this Natal thing as so different from xb360's core market, that it really should be a separate platform.

 

[ShadowRunner]

As long as there are hardcore games available fo both the new devices ill be happy.

I dont want casual games not my cup of tea.

 

[patsu]

What game is that?

EyeToy for PS2.

 

[liolio]

Indeed, as it stands (without additional "pieces"), Natal is for casual, and casual only.

Other way you can consider as a complete product but I agree intended to casual audience.
Basically you buy the thing and you can play with your friends or your family.

 

[Asher]

Not to mention that it is actually a PROVEN CONCEPT

I wouldn't pay too much attention to this point. The Wiimote was not a proven concept when it was released, and it paid dividends in being suitably different.

Implementing something which, to the average user, is nothing but a clone of what Nintendo has done can be spun either as a "proven concept" as well as a "copycat". Depends on the angle you want to go for...

FWIW, all 3 companies are using "proven concepts" because they are demonstrably valid in the real world. This isn't theory, there is hardware out there for all the consoles for this to work with.

 

[22psi]

The problem with Natal is that simple tasks are very complex to do, sometimes even impossible.
You get awesome depth recognition, yet you cannot even point on screen.

Where did you get this assessment? The simplest tasks are prob scrolling and entering which were shown on stage live to be not a problem.

 

[patsu]

I don't see any ad-on device making a big slash unless it has some huge killer app to drive its sales. Both Sony and MS are frantically trying to capture the Wii craze, but I think it's too late this gen. They should have refined their technologies and launched them in the box for next gen.

The Wii's waggle only works because it is in every Wii box with a game that drives sales. Since every Wii owner has one the devs can rely on it, unlike an ad-on with a low attach rate.

Yes, the marketing part is most definitely crucial.

One thing unknown is whether the PS3 waggle prototype will become a "transformer" DualShock controller, and replace SIXAXIS/DS3 altogether in the future.

 

[obonicus]

I know all about PS3MC, a bunch of friends have been working on it for ages, but I know little to nothing about Natal aside from the video today. But if it can detect where limbs are and depth as well, then it should be adaptable to all types of games including fps. In other words, if it can position your hands in three space, then you should be able to do just about anything with it. It may be dependent on software support for that, but that's Microsoft strong suit anyways.

The Natal still needs some sort of pointer equivalent. I'm guessing that by the pen demo, the PS3Wand (ew) has some functional equivalent.

 

[betan]

???
Do we even see d pad or something on Sony prototype that would allow you to move in game?

While interesting question, how is that even related?

If needed that would be that tough for MS to split the 360 controler in two?

You totally lost me here

As for selection a finger could do there no need for ubber precision just making big enough movements, it's not like they state the tech can track my finger while I try to play a random malmsteen licks.

Once again, whether MS was truthful or open has nothing to do with simple tasks Natal cannot perform.
In any case if Natal could detect "selection" even at very low precision, they would demo NXE properly instead of that totally lame hand gesture recognition which is much more inefficient than good old dpad even for my grandfather.

More importantly, ~1cm depth resolution from 5m says you can not point a 5 cm stick within ~ meters accuracy. How big is your TV?