Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

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I've been thinking about all this motion control stuff for awhile, in regards to my own gaming and from thatm I am seriously in doubt it will be something I will use much.

My living room isnt that big, and there is a table in between the couch and the TV and moving it out of the way to play a bit and then move it back isn't really an option. I expect that I'm not the only one in this situation. And I only expect to use it with Tiger Woods 11 anyway :)
But if am Eskrima/Kali/Arnis game shows up, I'll guess I'll be getting two move controllers ;) Heck any double action sword fighting would get me out of the couch.

As for the accuracy, I keep reading that the Move is much more accurate than the Wii solution. But I wonder is it accurate/fast enough? I tried Wii boxing and it was a horrible experience, to me a tleast, where slowing down your punches or really exaggerate a move to get the system to register it..
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Though I agree with everything else you've written, there's a reason to bring up lag. You can't play table tennis when there's a fifth of a second between you swinging for a ball and your bat actually moving. The only way to make that work is to change the nature of the table-tennis game so it's not a simulation but a game based on the ideas of table tennis, much how Wii Tennis wasn't really tennis.
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That's pretty much what they had to do for Move table tennis as well. In it's initial form it was unplayable because of the lag from the Move controller, and because there's no real three space ball that the user is following so it's harder than it seems to smack it back with a virtual paddle. So it was dumbed down and that's perfectly ok, tailor the experience to the device. They will have to do the same with Kinect apps, no biggie. It's not a whole lot different from dealing with say lag in network games, there is a lot of lag there but it's possible to mitigate it enough to make the online experience still fun.
 
There should be a lag threshold for different game and people. Once that threshold is exceeded, the user may play it differently e.g., consciously slow down your punches/strokes (like JPT), or lose interest.

From what I have played in Wii table tennis, the lag is unnoticeable. It feels really natural. And I felt connected to the game.
 
joker454 said:
That's pretty much what they had to do for Move table tennis as well. In it's initial form it was unplayable because of the lag from the Move controller, and because there's no real three space ball that the user is following so it's harder than it seems to smack it back with a virtual paddle. So it was dumbed down and that's perfectly ok, tailor the experience to the device.
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That whole set of games has three difficulty levels for everything. The Easy mode has loads of assists making the game much easier, but the Hard level is pretty much a hardcore simulation. There was an interview on this.

They will have to do the same with Kinect apps, no biggie. It's not a whole lot different from dealing with say lag in network games, there is a lot of lag there but it's possible to mitigate it enough to make the online experience still fun.
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You can only mitigate so much though. But actually some games are easy to calibrate this for. You just put the actual hit box as much forward as the amount of lag you need to compensate for. It's like driving a car from behind the car versus driving from the bumper view - your mind will have to adjust, but it's fairly easily done. And the actual lag is then only going to be an issue for things like tilting your racket or giving effects.

That said, the precision on the Move is going to make stuff like table tennis far superior to their competitors IF you're looking to get as realistic a replication. Adding 3D to that is going to bring that to a pretty extreme level of simulation I think. Same for golf - they showed it as a full sim. Not everyone will like that, and it is not necessary for most casuals, but it will add a level of depth.

Also, if Kinect has significant enough lag, that's going to make playing using Kinect online even harder. There's only so much lag you can compensate for.

It doesn't change my opinion on it though that Kinect will allow for some really awesome new game experiences, and same for the Move. I'm just thinking that right now, the Move controller has the potential to actually replace and enhance almost all gameplay experiences, including very core stuff, and that's something that has the potential to reach a lot of current gamers. Kinect on the other hand opens up possibilities for some completely new stuff that brings in new players. You don't need that many games to make that a success, but I don't feel that Microsoft quite has them yet (certainly with the most impressive titles now coming from third party again, though Microsoft won't care).

I'm glad all these systems exist anyway! Look forward to what they'll bring to the table.
 
The explosion of "Kinect only works standing!?" over the web is similar to the "Crossfire is limited to 1600x1200 resolution" of a few years ago. The response that this is not true is trickling out there, so congrats on the mountain out of a mole hill that is internet drama. Please return to the regularly scheduled program of but eyetoy, wii-too, lag and of course hanging joker out to dry. ;)

Did I see that right that you can buy Move without the camera? Isn't it required? So is it like WiiPlay in which you mask the sale of an essential component with a game?

Did I see someone earlier say you can use the DS3 instead of the nunchuck? Ok, then of the same token, can't you use a 360 controller in tandem with Kinect?
 
egoless said:
Did I see that right that you can buy Move without the camera? Isn't it required? So is it like WiiPlay in which you mask the sale of an essential component with a game?
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You only need 1 PS Eye for multiple players.

Did I see someone earlier say you can use the DS3 instead of the nunchuck? Ok, then of the same token, can't you use a 360 controller in tandem with Kinect?
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No one said you can't ! The point was that you can swap the nunchuck with a DS3 if you don't want to spend extra $$$.
 
Well I guess MS still has things to work out. But from the fitness demo by ubisoft, the device was clearly picking up the body and certainly at a good enough resolution for it to work properly while someone is sitting down. Now, the software I can see would be tricky. It's a complex problem like voice recognition. But nothing I see as insurmoutable.
 
Scott_Arm said:
Starting to see some negatives across the board. It's all prep for next gen.

http://gizmodo.com/5565294/playstation-move-isnt-much-more-than-a-wii-hd
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The article says PS Move isn't much more than Wii for first gen games.

There are games he liked, and games that need more improvement.

Now, whether Sony can make sure a few bad apples don't taint the consumer's perspective of the bunch, whether Sony can entice developers to stick with the platform through its growing pains, these are the "ifs" that cloud the future the Move platform. But based upon my early hands ons? It's a Wiimote HD, for better and worse.
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I wouldn't mind playing a game similar to WiiSports Resort on the PS3, but as a technically inclined person, I'd love to see some more improvements.

The use of PSEye may be key here.

Too bad he didn't get to try Sorcery. Based on what I have seen so far, I think it's one of the more interesting Move games. At this point in time, I have a hunch "core" games such as Sorcery, Socom 4, Heavy Rain, MLB 2010, and LBP2 may define the Move experiences (mostly for gamers). This is where Wii is relatively weaker. Sports Championship, Move Party and EyePet are hygiene factors (They need to be there but won't win any war against Wii since the latter owns the casual space).

Because of how Sony positioned PS Move (separate from PSEye games), the author also missed existing core games such as GT5 (head tracking).
 
patsu said:
Too bad he didn't get to try Sorcery. Based on what I have seen so far, I think it's one of the more interesting Move games. At this point in time, I have a hunch "core" games such as Sorcery, Socom 4, Heavy Rain, MLB 2010, and LBP2 may define the Move experiences (mostly for gamers).
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This is how Sony first brought up Move. Then at GDC they did their Move Sports, Move Party, etc. games just like people said they would.
 
obonicus said:
That the 'super garmer-oriented precision' promised didn't prevent us from getting the Sony version of everything the Wii had already.
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Yes, they're low hanging fruits.

The first parties will most likely extend their existing games to toy with the tech. The really different/innovative Move game will come later.

Nonetheless, everyone else -- including myself -- will want the unqiue Move app/game first. :)
 
What kind of latency does a USB 2.0 interface have? Just curious if lag in Natal and Move (for Eye) could be attributed to latency in the USB 2.0 interface. USB 3.0 will be standard next gen, so would that be a big latency improvement? I'm hoping LightPeak makes an entrance into the console market. It would be a good deal for Intel to push the tech.
 
The motion data comes from Move's internal sensors wirelessly. The PS Eye is only used to pinpoint the absolute position of the controller. I think they don't have to calculate the position frequently since the magnetic field sensor helps to calibrate the gyro and accelerometer.

EDIT: USB 2.0 (480Mbit/s) should have enough bandwidth for PSEye (320 x 240 @ 120Hz) anyway.
 
If you read the calibration process for the fight game, it sounds like they are calibrating relative to Eye. And they tell the person not to move around after calibration, so I'm assuming it messes up the reference point to the camera.
 
Scott_Arm said:
If you read the calibration process for the fight game, it sounds like they are calibrating relative to Eye. And they tell the person not to move around after calibration, so I'm assuming it messes up the reference point to the camera.
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Yes I saw that and was wondering why they need to recalibrate after every game (Some other apps didn't seem to require frequent calibration). Will have to wait for another indepth technical article. Could be an app issue or a system issue (e.g., changing player after one mini-game session if the app doesn't use facial recognition; or in general, calibration at the app level for gesture recognition). No idea.

I believe people reported that the Fight game has noticeable lag. May be they are still working out the kinks.
 
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