Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[tha_con]

Sure you think it's the least intimidating. And anyone who is a current console gamer will think it's the least intimidating, but you still aren't getting the point. You and they aren't the primary target demographic for this.

Doesn't matter if you believe it or not but studies have shown that people who are NOT gamers find the controller intimidating. Especially as the number of buttons and sticks and pads and triggers and bumpers grow.

I have a feeling you will never understand, and that's fine, since you aren't in the demographic they are trying to go after.

Now you can argue that people that find the controller intimidating may not be interested in a console no matter what, but then again those same studies show that people are interested in gaming even if they are intimidated by the controlles with 2 analog sticks, a dpad, 6+ face buttons, multiple bumpers, triggers, etc...

Whether MS can tap into that in any meaningful way we'll find out in November.

Regards,
SB

No, it's the software. A controller can have 500 buttons, but if you only use a small handful, it doesn't matter.

The Wii Remote has 6 buttons, a D Pad, a nun chuck with 2 buttons and an analog stick. At first glance, that's a decent number. Fortunately for Nintendo, most of their games use one button, maybe two, and maybe an analog stick. Its the software. Kinect has zero buttons, but if the software required complex gestures and voice commands to play games, then it would fail. It's the software. The controller is NOT the issue. My mother types 100 words per minute on a computer, she owns a Palm Pre smart phone, she does wood work, she's smart enough to learn to use a controller. She isn't interested in the software. The software.

People still associate these games for kids. It's the software. I don't know how many times I can repeat it. If damn NSMB Wii were on the 360, it would do gangbusters, even with all those crazy new-fangled buttons! Because it only uses a very select portion of them.

 

[joker454]

Edit: Also, a month ago we couldn't keep you quiet about the potential for "Natal", and how much cooler it was than Move. Now all of the sudden this simply isn't a product for us, and it's biggest applications are half baked fitness games and some pose recognition games...er...dance games.

What changed?

Nothing changed, Kinect was never meant for you. You'd also probably be surprised to know that what's 'half baked' to you was thrilling to others. But like I've said before, there's no point trying to convince the hardcore so I won't bother.

 

[RudeCurve]

I'm a hardcore gamer and I was pleasantly surprised with the virtual GUI using Kinect. That alone was more interesting TO ME than the Wii-like games. Would be very interesting if Microsoft turns the Xbox platform into the brains behind home automation in the future.

 

[thop]

I'm surprised how expensive Move is. A full two player setup sets you back $310!!

 

[(((interference)))]

I'm surprised how expensive Move is. A full two player setup sets you back $310!!

Just like Kotaku predicted all that time ago

 

[Silent_Buddha]

No, it's the software. A controller can have 500 buttons, but if you only use a small handful, it doesn't matter.

The Wii Remote has 6 buttons, a D Pad, a nun chuck with 2 buttons and an analog stick. At first glance, that's a decent number. Fortunately for Nintendo, most of their games use one button, maybe two, and maybe an analog stick. Its the software. Kinect has zero buttons, but if the software required complex gestures and voice commands to play games, then it would fail. It's the software. The controller is NOT the issue. My mother types 100 words per minute on a computer, she owns a Palm Pre smart phone, she does wood work, she's smart enough to learn to use a controller. She isn't interested in the software. The software.

People still associate these games for kids. It's the software. I don't know how many times I can repeat it. If damn NSMB Wii were on the 360, it would do gangbusters, even with all those crazy new-fangled buttons! Because it only uses a very select portion of them.

And like I said you just don't get it and probably never will. It is the controller. People say it's the controller when asked. When filling the form for the survey they listed the controller. When shown a console they cite the controller.

These same people had less of a problem with something like an Atari 2600 controller which is 1 stick and 1 button.

You never will get it because you cannot fathom that something you use everyday can cause anxienty in some people when they even think of using one.

It isn't anything new. One of the attractions of the iPhone over other smartphones was the fact that it had virtually no buttons. And people that I knew that had always wanted a smartphone but never got one because they were all too "complex" with too many buttons, finally got a smartphone.

Many cars are still designed with a key goal of making sure there are a minimum number of controls, buttons, knobs, and whatnot.

Sure too many buttons and complex controllers are certainly indicative of possibly overly complex games. But it's still the controller that puts people off.

As to the Wiimote you just helped the case. As the primary demographic are people with NO consoles, including the Wii. Wii players are a secondary demographic being chased along with owners of current consoles.

Now, whether people with no consoles will suddenly decide to buy a console due to Natal is certainly questionable, that's what MS is targetting to expand the market rather than 'only' going after users of other consoles.

Regards,
SB

 

[nintenho]

I don't know if this is the right thread but this is a pretty good demonstration of the MGS 3D demo for the 3DS.

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=zHAawG5Dm5Z5aQ0GYq45A4h4l5k2TGxc

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

I'm surprised how expensive Move is. A full two player setup sets you back $310!!

Huh? How did you arrive at that price? It should be at least $100 LESS than what you have listed.

 

[Danalys]

I'm surprised how expensive Move is. A full two player setup sets you back $310!!

That's also your four player setup tho. Using DS3 or sixaxis as subcontrollers if you've already got them makes it cheaper also. Then there's playing multiplayer online instead or just having two PS3 owner meeting up at one of their houses would only require them having $150 worth of new kit each. This is discounting possible discounts or bundles with games.

 

[thop]

Huh? How did you arrive at that price?

The trick is that a few games require two motion controllers per player.

 

[Danalys]

Huh? How did you arrive at that price? It should be at least $100 LESS than what you have listed.

Camera + Move pack, 3 additional Moves, 2 subcontrollers.

100 + 150 + 60

 

[rabidrabbit]

Camera + Move pack, 3 additional Moves, 2 subcontrollers.

100 + 150 + 60

Camera €40
Move Controller €50 x 2
Sub Controller €30 x 2
------------------------
€200

I'm not sure if there actually will be 2 player games that use two Move controllers per player. Will there?

The above setup will likely be what most people that want two player setup buy at first, with additional Move controllers bought later if needed.
I believe even with just two move controllers and a camera, most of the casual two player games can be played.

 

[Billy Idol]

Hm, I agree with Joker on this:

it is indeed a possibility that a lot of people "afraid" of the typical controller stuff (i.e. "I don't have the skill to play") use this motion controller stuff to enter the mighty and beautiful gaming world!

So this is indeed a good thing if you ask me, if publisher could generate cheap money by pumping out low budget/quality Wii-like titles and making a lot of money....maybe they then have more money to allocate on AAA hardcore action packed "me likes" games!!

Comparing the two new systems, I think that Natal is just better suited for marketing compared to Move:

1.)no casual gamer cares about lag! (they typically don't know what this is)
2.)no casual gamer cares about precision!
=> so the obvious fundamentall right in your face flaws of Natal (I really like this name much much more...was kind of mystic!) don't count for the goal audience!

Sony marketing Move as being more precise than Wii...is the exact wrong answer and the wrong strategy to target the casual market, IMO (see argument 1.) and 2.) above!)

And I am not sure if they really can convince the core gamers with Move...if they want this, then they should not show "Tiger Woods" with "direct real life control" with about "10 seconds of input lag only" mumbo jumbo!

I think at the end, the one with more luck will win...you never know what the majority of people will buy, heck there are even people out there who buy iPad!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Do you think Nintendo and Sony will go the Kinect route for the next gen consoles?

I thought Sony would have PSEye as standard in PS3 at launch, offering lots of natural interface, casual gaming from the get-go. How wrong I was! So, they should, but they may well be too dumb to see a good thing when it's eating into their market share...

 

[Danalys]

I wonder if they could move to using a 3D camera like on the 3DS, and if so could they replicate the Kinect, or would the image processing required be far to intensive for real time usage this gen or the next?

 

[liolio]

Kinect is nothing but wii remakes, but better. Wii can't keep track of legs or body or heads, only the hands (where the controller is held). The 2 killers apps for Kinect are the fitness games and Harmonix's Dance Central, everything else is going to bomb. But the real question that needs to be asked is.... do the casual care? Will the extra degree of tracking convince people to buy Kinect/Dance Central?

The "dancing" game on wii is ore of a maracas game
I too see quiet a difference between what kinect does and what the Wii offers.
Whereas first games are perfect or it will sell is another matter. It may fail look like people would be really happy about it, my geekness would not.
I've interest in fitness games, Child of eden, the dancing games, I don't care for party games but neither I do on Wii. There is not actually that much games if you remove party games.
I wonder if the fact that kinect track pretty much correctly our body could be its downfall in some regard. Think the sport game, hurdles, boys are likely to win on girls, adults to win on children, a "nice" think on Wii party is that they imho suck so much that anyone get his chance to win.
Anyway, it's more about marketing and public reaction now than about tech and games what Kinect offers is on another level than what the wii does. Now the Wii sell almost by itself, will Ms marketing will manage to make a dent into that? It's quiet a challenge. People (average adults, etc) were willing to try the Wii, but did it convince them in regard to gaming? I'm not sure whereas the Wii sells I know so many people that simply don't use it anymore. Is mass market ready to give a shot at video gaming again? I dunno.
Is bashing the tech and games fair? I don't think so. They won't be responsible for Kinect success or failure imho.

 

[Gubbi]

Suddenly I'm thinking of a flight sim only where you're the landing crew!

Or a flight attendent, having to wrestle terrorists. Game comes with life-sized dummy !!!

Cheers

 

[Brad Grenz]

The 3DS cameras are positioned specifically so that photos will create a 3D effect when displayed on the screen, but they don't really capture any depth information.

 

[obonicus]

Nothing changed, Kinect was never meant for you. You'd also probably be surprised to know that what's 'half baked' to you was thrilling to others. But like I've said before, there's no point trying to convince the hardcore so I won't bother.

I'm sorry, but as Brad Grenz pointed out, your story changed dramatically. Before you were saying that MS was securing all of this talent and all these developers and that we'd be surprised. We, meanwhile were predicting that we'd see the same Wii-a-likes Sony offered with Move -- and we weren't surprised. And now you're saying 'well, gee, of course it's the same game types as with Wii, it's for the same audience'.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They capture a sterescopic image just as our eyes do. 'Depth' can be perceived by presenting these images stereoscopically. 3D doesn't require a depth value. Indeed, a 3D image of a single visual frame and depth buffer doesn't create a 3D image and cannot create an accurate 3D sterescopic image.