Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[obonicus]

If it really is ~$150, I think it definitely won't be a loss-leader, but it does seem like a shift in MS' strategy with regard to 'Natal as a platform/console relaunch'.

 

[Gerry]

07 (06) PS3 2010 Fifa World Cup South Africa (Electronic Arts)
08 (08) 360 2010 Fifa World Cup South Africa (Electronic Arts)
09 (09) WII Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo)

OT: But I do have to laugh at the fact that the Skype add-in turns the Fifa entry into a clickable (UK) phone number - 0808 360 2010.

 

[patsu]

To flesh out this point some more, this week's UK chart



There's 18 360 games, 13 PS3 games (31 combined HD games), and wait for it, FIVE Wii games.

Sure Wii is selling a lot of hardware (though even that has/is declining), but do you really want to sell more hardware when it's a loss leader, as PS3/360 is, basically?

According to Kaz, PS3 can break even if the users buy one more peripheral ? 360 should be more profitable hardware-wise than PS3.

The cumulative sales of WiiSports and a few other Wii titles should be big enough to justify for casual market development regardless of how well HD titles are doing.

This is especially true when the HD consoles have already developed their "roots" in the hardcore market today. Extending to casual is a natural next step.

 

[patsu]

A very positive impression of Natal:
http://www.joe.ie/002246/1/1/story/project-natal-a-first-glimpse

Responsive

My Ricochet avatar was incredibly responsive. Any pose, any movement, anything, was recreated instantly on screen. Even jumping on the spot or twisting my upper body saw the avatar doing so too. Bending my knees, inverting them inwards or clapping my hands was again perfectly reiterated by my avatar. No lag, no delay and no thinking.

...

After our two rounds we were introduced to a two player sequence where literally another player can jump in and join you in the Ricochet red ball tunnel instantaneously. The two player experience was actually quite fun and there was no let up in responsiveness or just how interactive it all felt.

 

[patsu]

Cohort Studios' Lol Scragg talks Move title "The Shoot":
http://play.tm/interview/30446/working-with-playstation-move/

I think one of the problems that it's had in the media and especially in the forums is that people have thought that 'Oh God, it's another motion controller - a different motion controller aimed at the social/casual market'. I think that has happened because the Wii has used that way in the past. There's been a lot of good Wii games that have used it but there's also a lot of poor Wii games, but they've all been targeted at the non-hardcore end of the market.

What the Move can do is open up the motion control style of gaming to a more hardcore market - the more traditional PlayStation/Xbox style market.

...

 

[patsu]

"The Last Word" on Natal:

At 8:00, the host asked, "Is there a lag or do I suck ?" -_-

 

[LightHeaven]

To flesh out this point some more, this week's UK chart



There's 18 360 games, 13 PS3 games (31 combined HD games), and wait for it, FIVE Wii games.

Sure Wii is selling a lot of hardware (though even that has/is declining), but do you really want to sell more hardware when it's a loss leader, as PS3/360 is, basically?

Hell maybe that's what's behind the seeming high price of Natal. Maybe MS is banking on the hardware to bring the profits, not the software.

Its also interesting looking at this list:

http://www.elspa.com/?i=3946

There are already 5 games on Wii that crossed the 1 million mark in UK, that's one more than both Ps2 and 360, and except for Mario and Sonic, they are all nintendo games.

If sony or Ms have softwares like these they will also enjoy those monstrous sales.

 

[LightHeaven]

"The Last Word" on Natal:

At 8:00, the host asked, "Is there a lag or do I suck ?" -_-

Can't see the screen to see the lag, but he does look like a normal person while playing, so i bet he suck

 

[rabidrabbit]

These Natal demonstrations are getting really boring.
What's the point in showing people flailing mindlessy, and not showing the actual game at all
MIght have worked for Wii ads, but these days people expect more.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

These Natal demonstrations are getting really boring.
What's the point in showing people flailing mindlessy, and not showing the actual game at all
MIght have worked for Wii ads, but these days people expect more.

Worse than the Wii ads, which showed controlled motion. The choice of game here is mental, and we see it over and over again! Still, Patsu's latest quote suggests the hardware is spot on. If that pans out I'm sure we'll see quality titles. Like "Hole in the Wall".

 

[Crossbar]

These Natal demonstrations are getting really boring.
What's the point in showing people flailing mindlessy, and not showing the actual game at all
MIght have worked for Wii ads, but these days people expect more.

Indeed, it looks pretty much as when my kids used to play EyeToy games. There must be better games to show off some unique capabilites.

 

[Arwin]

Indeed, it looks pretty much as when my kids used to play EyeToy games. There must be better games to show off some unique capabilites.

Don't worry, they'll come. Everything else has just been held back until E3.

 

[obonicus]

Are we expecting stuff miles above the Move stuff Sony showed for some reason? Because so far there really hasn't been anything showcasing the concept at all.

 

[patsu]

Bah, let's wait and see.

Network World showed:
* Project Natal in a monster game [concept ?] @ 1:44 (See ? It can be fun)
* PS Move squished @ 2:18

The rest is an interview with Dr. Marks:

 

[Arwin]

Bah, let's wait and see.

Network World showed:
* Project Natal in a monster game [concept ?] @ 1:44 (See ? It can be fun)
* PS Move squished @ 2:18

The monster game for Natal you see is from the original launch promo. Interesting though now in retrospect that this concept demo actually shows lag, which makes you wonder if it was actually running live.

Anyway, there were more interesting things in there. The Move controller is finished and we saw final production hardware. We also saw four controllers being used at the same time. Also the APIs are finished and have been for a little while. He also mentions that while he thinks there may always still be improvements in speed or lag, they are now at a level where speed is not really relevant anymore.

Finally, and this is probably partly an answer to obonicus' question, he mentions that Sony had several other stuff ready that they weren't allowed to see because that was being held back for E3.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The 3D modelling demo was very impressive. I really hope this sees some inclusion in a consumer product as it's a unique experience and helps differentiate Move from Wii. With 3D displays I can see it getting traction as a concept with 3D artists too. Z-brush would progress to a whole new level with 3D spacial viewing and interaction.

 

[patsu]

Whoops, forgot about the consumer 3D modelling tool @ 1:15. It's one of the highlights of the video.

Yeah Arwin, I remember the kid but forgot about the monster demo @ Natal announcement.

EDIT: The 3D modelling tool would be extremely helpful to create a character like this:
http://community.modnation.com/en-us/creations/164773
in Modnation Racer.

 

[AzBat]

Engadget got a lot pics from D8 last night. Here's one...

Hit up the link for 31 more...

http://www.engadget.com/photos/project-natal-retail-unit-revealed-at-d8

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

This is kind of neat. Evidently the Ricochet game has a "feature that displays shareable Polaroid-type snapshots taken of players as they play." Could see that being used in a lot of party style games.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...012011196_d8_project_natal_demo_-_no_new.html

Pretty are 2 nice tech demo videos included there to. Both are from the D8 event last night. Still looks a little green.

Tommy McClain

 

[Graham]

Engadget got a lot pics from D8 last night. Here's one...



Hit up the link for 31 more...

http://www.engadget.com/photos/proje...revealed-at-d8

Tommy McClain

A few observations:

• The usb splitter is still there (and I assume a power brick too)
• It needs air vents?
• Funny. The skeleton tracking in pic 16 is perfect, yet the avatar is a bit off due to it's proportions being unrealistic...
• They all stand quite far from the device too

The 3D modelling demo was very impressive. I really hope this sees some inclusion in a consumer product as it's a unique experience and helps differentiate Move from Wii. With 3D displays I can see it getting traction as a concept with 3D artists too. Z-brush would progress to a whole new level with 3D spacial viewing and interaction.

Way in the past I'd actually done some research into this myself at university - using AR markers, etc, for 3D modeling purposes. The long and the short of it was that it works beautifully in theory and for small things, but (in my case) the tracking wasn't accurate enough and overall it just wasn't really very useful as there is no physical interaction with the surface (in the sense there is no feedback, which becomes exceptionally tiring if you attempt any level of precise movement*). Still, it'll be interesting to see if Sony do adapt it for artists. There is a lot of room for broad, organic motions and modeling that would work rather well.

*You can demonstrate this easily: Stretch your hand out in front of you, keep it as still as you can and at the same time rotate your wrist back and forth as slowly as you can.

Still looks a little green.

Yeah :-/